Tribologist discusses 0W8 motor oil

[4WD]

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Can’t believe you cut off the Velcro tabs on his shoes

 

[TiGeo]

 

[ProbeGT]

The issue with the lubricity test is it's meant for gear oil testing....not motor oil testing. As much as you may want to believe this is telling you how well these oils perform in your engine...it doesn't. I enjoy PFs videos but this isn't a valid way to compare oils in the context of your engine. It is however a dataset as you point out with reasonable variable control etc. just not one that can be used to help with what is the higher performing motor oil.

My primary concern is camshaft lubrication. PF's lubricity test is a close as it gets to simulating cam lobe on slipper pad action. I don't pay any attention to the cold oil race, etc. These photos of an intake camshaft and rocker arm from one of my cars. The result of using 5W-30 "energy conserving", fully synthetic API SN oil with low levels of ZDDP. No more. Switched to better oils since I replaced the camshaft and rocker arms 2 years ago. Using only the highest AW additive oils I can find. No sign of wear, yet, on the replacement parts.

 

[ATex7239]

I like them both because they make BITOGers sit in corner and cry

From now on all you will hear is Kermit and Cookie Monster when you watch their vids - you’re welcome.

 

[TiGeo]

From now on all you will hear is Kermit and Cookie Monster when you watch their vids - you’re welcome.

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Who is Scotty?

 

[ATex7239]

Who is Scotty?

Kilmer

 

[kschachn]

The other clue is by looking at how many licenses, specifications and approvals include a Timken type test.

If camshaft wear is the issue then there is an existing test for that which is representative. This one is not, it's so full of uncontrolled variables as to be utterly worthless.

Not some clueless dood in his basement or garage.

 

[camrydriver111]

My primary concern is camshaft lubrication. PF's lubricity test is a close as it gets to simulating cam lobe on slipper pad action. I don't pay any attention to the cold oil race, etc. These photos of an intake camshaft and rocker arm from one of my cars. The result of using 5W-30 "energy conserving", fully synthetic API SN oil with low levels of ZDDP. No more. Switched to better oils since I replaced the camshaft and rocker arms 2 years ago. Using only the highest AW additive oils I can find. No sign of wear, yet, on the replacement parts.

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What engine?

 

[RevvCats]

The actual ASTM test for gear oils has huge error bars for the results, mostly due to operator variability during the test. Large variability equates to also needing a somewhat larger sample size but again, these county fair hawkers generally perform the test once. But that's only another fatal flaw.

Getting back to your assertion that it is valid data, this is indeed the worst part of those tests. No results are presented properly showing the uncertainty in the results. This is about the large error bars. If you take the time to take their worthless results and use standard uncertainty then the real result is that all the oils in the test yield indistinguishable results. In other words they all test the same.

Yeah this is what I was trying to get at. Even if for whatever reason you like his test setup and think it’s going to give you a meaningful measurement he doesn’t do the most basic of steps in experimental science, make multiple measurements to quantify the uncertainty.

Can his setup actually measure 1%, 5%, 10% differences in wear scar width? Maybe but who knows because he’s never bothered to make multiple measurements, take an average, and calculate a standard deviation.

This is the same guy who also doesn’t seem to understand the basic concepts of chemistry, blindly adds up ppm of different oil additives, and confidently says an oil is better because it has more. It’s just so bad on so many levels.

 

[OVERKILL]

My primary concern is camshaft lubrication. PF's lubricity test is a close as it gets to simulating cam lobe on slipper pad action.

No, that would be Sequence IVA and IVB, which are tests specifically developed to measure valvetrain wear.

I don't pay any attention to the cold oil race, etc. These photos of an intake camshaft and rocker arm from one of my cars. The result of using 5W-30 "energy conserving", fully synthetic API SN oil with low levels of ZDDP. No more. Switched to better oils since I replaced the camshaft and rocker arms 2 years ago. Using only the highest AW additive oils I can find. No sign of wear, yet, on the replacement parts.

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Oils developed to produce less wear in more demanding applications (like Full-SAPS Euro oils for example, which have higher levels of phosphorous) should yield less wear in applications that benefit from this.

This does not mean that half-baked backyard bench tests are any sort of illustrations of this in practice. The "top rated" oil on the RAT blog test was an "Energy Conserving" 5W-30 (Quaker State) while Valvoline VR1 racing 20W-50 "ranks" 62nd.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

No engine requires it.

True that, used the wrong words there.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I like them both because they make BITOGers sit in corner and cry

So does wavy filter pleats.

 

[TiGeo]

Kilmer

BUY OLD TOYOTAS

No, that would be Sequence IVA and IVB, which are tests specifically developed to measure valvetrain wear.

Oils developed to produce less wear in more demanding applications (like Full-SAPS Euro oils for example, which have higher levels of phosphorous) should yield less wear in applications that benefit from this.

This does not mean that half-baked backyard bench tests are any sort of illustrations of this in practice. The "top rated" oil on the RAT blog test was an "Energy Conserving" 5W-30 (Quaker State) while Valvoline VR1 racing 20W-50 "ranks" 62nd.

Just went and spent some time at the Rat site...it's amazing...."Bozotheoilguy".

 

[ATex7239]

BUY OLD TOYOTAS

Scotty is alway good for a laugh. I like him. He doesn’t take himself too seriously

 

[TiGeo]

Scotty is alway good for a laugh. I like him. He doesn’t take himself too seriously

I went through a phase where I watched his stuff, over it now but yes, entertaing and I'm sure he steams many of the super-serious types that frequent this place.

 

[BornSlippy]

I went through a phase where I watched his stuff, over it now but yes, entertaing and I'm sure he steams many of the super-serious types that frequent this place.

REV UP YER ENGINES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gfh77665]

Scotty is banking on you patronizing his CLICK BAIT. Nothing more. Be smart. Don't take the bait.

 

[ATex7239]

Scotty is banking on you patronizing his CLICK BAIT. Nothing more. Be smart. Don't take the bait.

I’m gonna double click from now on just for you.

 

[4WD]

No, that would be Sequence IVA and IVB, which are tests specifically developed to measure valvetrain wear.

Oils developed to produce less wear in more demanding applications (like Full-SAPS Euro oils for example, which have higher levels of phosphorous) should yield less wear in applications that benefit from this.

This does not mean that half-baked backyard bench tests are any sort of illustrations of this in practice. The "top rated" oil on the RAT blog test was an "Energy Conserving" 5W-30 (Quaker State) while Valvoline VR1 racing 20W-50 "ranks" 62nd.

Remind me which shampoo was head and shoulders above the rest?

 

[Accent Abuser]

He is using his daughters '23 Corolla as test bed. Also mentioned how 10,000 mile oil changes are not a good idea and that he changed the oil twice already himself before taking it in to the dealer at 10,000 miles to see what oil they will use.

One thing I really agree with him on is you can't just use TBN to determine proper drain intervals with modern ultra low sulfur fuels. Between that and that engine builder from Nissan/Infiniti telling people if they want their engine to last hundreds of thousands of miles they should change their oil every 2k it's even more reason for me to keep my 3k interval.

The proof is in the pudding, if my Hyundai can make it to 231,000 miles, still have 180psi compression, a mirror like finish on all the valvetrain components and burn no oil by keeping to 3k oil changes its obviously not a waste.