Thoughts on redline?

[OilUzer]

If you and/or your engine likes very high amounts of moly, then I would consider Red Line and we are not talking about racing here ...

I considered it once because Toyota factory oil has or used to have high amounts of moly. That was the only reason for me but I haven't tried it yet.
I was told engines sound smoother with moly

but have no proof and moly is expensive so that may explain the price plus other stuff and low(er) volume ...

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
If you and/or your engine likes very high amounts of moly, then I would consider Red Line.

I considered it once because Toyota factory oil has or used to have high amounts of moly. That was the only reason for me but I haven't tried it yet.
I was told engines sound smoother with moly

but have no proof.


Not just Red Line with the moly (the composition of which I don't know). Driven LS30 is ~600 ppm comprised of 2 different moly additives. Motul 300v is ~800 ppm also comprised of 2 different moly additives. High Performance Lubricants (new site sponsor) BAS oil is ~1900 ppm moly from 4 different moly additives.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Redline 5w-30 Professional = HTHS 3.2.
Phillips 66 5w-30 Shield Armor Full Synthetic Motor Oil = HTHS 3.0.

Rounding error?

Well it would be reproducibility, not rounding error. I can't find a "free" copy of ASTM 4741 to find out the value, but for similar ASTM methods it is somewhere around 3-4%. It may be different for ASTM 4741 since this is the new and improved method of determining HTHS.


Don't worry yourself with that, he was just looking at the wrong P66 product, the 5w-30 is rebottled Shield Valor not Shield Armor.

I wasn't looking at the "wrong" P66 product, I was looking at a "different" P66 product.

At the time of my post, you hadn't referenced P66 Shield Valor (or the previous BITIG thread).

At any rate, it does appear that some Redline products are repackaged P66 products. Disappointing.

No hostilities from my keyboard,

Scott


I had linked to the previous thread in a prior post that you must have overlooked. And yes, you were looking at the wrong product in the sense that it wasn't the one that was the match for the product in question, that's all. No hostilities here either, I had delved into this quite a bit back when the thread i referenced was current, which is why I had made the statements I did.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters at Walmart"



I remember lurking this site back in the early days when there was a wealth of information being posted daily. Nowadays, it seems the majority here are just looking for the cheapest oil that'll go the longest interval with little regard for technical information. Marketing mumbo jumbo is held in high regards, as if it was gospel, and god forbid anything get posted to the contrary or you're in for an argument. Then everybody wonders why the majority of knowledgeable members have left the site.


There's definitely a vein of that in play. I like running what I perceive to be the best oil approved for my application, which results in me chasing base oils to some extent, regardless of how useless that might be. That's why I'm running M1 EP (majority PAO, and easy to get) and Ravenol.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by kschachn
So what are those quantifiable benefits of esters?


Better miscibility and solubility at lower temperatures ensures better distribution of additives throughout the engine. The greater solubility promotes the cleaning of varnish and sludge. It also has better high temperature protection which is what gives RL their high HTHS ratings. Esters are also excellent seal conditioners.


IIRC, the reason for the addition of esters in historic Mobil 1 (Tri-syn was PAO/Esters/AN) was to counteract the effects of the majority PAO base. It doesn't take a huge volume of what I believe was POE to counteract it and provide benefits. I'd expect Mobil has continued that process with their current products and the ones that are high in PAO probably have more POE to counteract it. That's just wild posit on my part though

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by kschachn
So what are those quantifiable benefits of esters?


Better miscibility and solubility at lower temperatures ensures better distribution of additives throughout the engine. The greater solubility promotes the cleaning of varnish and sludge. It also has better high temperature protection which is what gives RL their high HTHS ratings. Esters are also excellent seal conditioners.


IIRC, the reason for the addition of esters in historic Mobil 1 (Tri-syn was PAO/Esters/AN) was to counteract the effects of the majority PAO base. It doesn't take a huge volume of what I believe was POE to counteract it and provide benefits. I'd expect Mobil has continued that process with their current products and the ones that are high in PAO probably have more POE to counteract it. That's just wild posit on my part though

Right. That's the first two sentences of my post. It gives solubility to the PAO oils to absorb and disperse the additive package and counteracts the seal shrinkage issue with PAO.

 

[OilReport99]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters at Walmart"



I remember lurking this site back in the early days when there was a wealth of information being posted daily. Nowadays, it seems the majority here are just looking for the cheapest oil that'll go the longest interval with little regard for technical information. Marketing mumbo jumbo is held in high regards, as if it was gospel, and god forbid anything get posted to the contrary or you're in for an argument. Then everybody wonders why the majority of knowledgeable members have left the site.


There's definitely a vein of that in play. I like running what I perceive to be the best oil approved for my application, which results in me chasing base oils to some extent, regardless of how useless that might be. That's why I'm running M1 EP (majority PAO, and easy to get) and Ravenol.


I thought you ran the Ravenol because of the more stringent approvals, i.e. A40, LL-01, 229.5, etc. in addition to the MS-12633 recommendation?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by OilReport99
Originally Posted by OVERKILL


There's definitely a vein of that in play. I like running what I perceive to be the best oil approved for my application, which results in me chasing base oils to some extent, regardless of how useless that might be. That's why I'm running M1 EP (majority PAO, and easy to get) and Ravenol.


I thought you ran the Ravenol because of the more stringent approvals, i.e. A40, LL-01, 229.5, etc. in addition to the MS-12633 recommendation?


See the first part of my statement with respect to the best approved oil for my application. Ravenol not only uses top-tier base oils, but the product has myriad OEM approvals, including the FCA one for my application, so to me it was the obvious choice.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by kschachn
So what are those quantifiable benefits of esters?


Better miscibility and solubility at lower temperatures ensures better distribution of additives throughout the engine. The greater solubility promotes the cleaning of varnish and sludge. It also has better high temperature protection which is what gives RL their high HTHS ratings. Esters are also excellent seal conditioners.


IIRC, the reason for the addition of esters in historic Mobil 1 (Tri-syn was PAO/Esters/AN) was to counteract the effects of the majority PAO base. It doesn't take a huge volume of what I believe was POE to counteract it and provide benefits. I'd expect Mobil has continued that process with their current products and the ones that are high in PAO probably have more POE to counteract it. That's just wild posit on my part though

Right. That's the first two sentences of my post. It gives solubility to the PAO oils to absorb and disperse the additive package and counteracts the seal shrinkage issue with PAO.


Understood, I was just giving an example with a product everybody should be pretty familiar with and isn't regarded as "boutique" like Redline is.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters at Walmart"



I only suggest motor oil. They have a huge assortment at good prices. I am not a fan of Walmart. I wish they would pay their workers a decent wage and value the time of their shoppers.

I get filters, ATF and gear oil other places. I get some NAPA brand oil at NAPA. Seems fine in my Subaru.

 

[OilReport99]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by OilReport99
Originally Posted by OVERKILL


There's definitely a vein of that in play. I like running what I perceive to be the best oil approved for my application, which results in me chasing base oils to some extent, regardless of how useless that might be. That's why I'm running M1 EP (majority PAO, and easy to get) and Ravenol.


I thought you ran the Ravenol because of the more stringent approvals, i.e. A40, LL-01, 229.5, etc. in addition to the MS-12633 recommendation?


See the first part of my statement with respect to the best approved oil for my application. Ravenol not only uses top-tier base oils, but the product has myriad OEM approvals, including the FCA one for my application, so to me it was the obvious choice.


The whole sentence gave (me) the perception you were making base oils the top priority for the best approved one. Nothing wrong with perceptions as you have stated above.

My bad.

 

[D1dad]

So paying more for oil at Walmart and paying blackstone to see how cheap overpriced oil performed isn't what could be considered wasting money? I'm just trying to get the flow around here because I've never seen more people waste money driving to Walmart to take pictures of oil to send to blackstone to tell you the same thing they told you last time they charged you $20.


Originally Posted by gathermewool
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
Originally Posted by BTLew81
Seriously...forget I asked. Wow...



Sad isn't it? This forum has turned into "only get your oil and filters for a reasonable priceat Walmart or on-sale just about anywhere, including auto parts stores when on clearance, Amazon, etc. or with rebate"



I fixed that for you...

Not all of us have money burning holes in our pockets.

 

[Olas]

I dont need Redline in my basic and low-powered engine, and I dont have money burning holes in my pockets, but I always go to Redline for engine oil because they are the 'best'.
I like the high amounts of zinc and moly, I like the stability of ester at high temperature and I like how clean the engine is when i last changed the VCG. Its not expensive because they advertise everywhere, it's expensive because it's really really good.

Casio and Audemar Piquet both make watches that tell the time - one costs less than a single quart of M1, and the other costs more than some houses. Guess which one is better?

if you want to try it then I definitely support your choice - your engine will thank you and your wear metals will be lower than ever!

 

[OilReport99]

Originally Posted by Olas
I dont need Redline in my basic and low-powered engine, and I dont have money burning holes in my pockets, but I always go to Redline for engine oil because they are the 'best'.
I like the high amounts of zinc and moly, I like the stability of ester at high temperature and I like how clean the engine is when i last changed the VCG. Its not expensive because they advertise everywhere, it's expensive because it's really really good.

Casio and Audemar Piquet both make watches that tell the time - one costs less than a single quart of M1, and the other costs more than some houses. Guess which one is better?

if you want to try it then I definitely support your choice - your engine will thank you and your wear metals will be lower than ever!


Isn't that what Blackstone has proven wrong?

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted by Gebo
I am smiling while typing with compassion and understanding for the OP.

I think Redline may be the "best" group of products you can buy. My issue is I have moved into the shorter OCI camp and I just can't quite justify the price of Redline with a shorter OCI. If I had the resources, I'd consider Redline and a 5K OCI. I'd need to go 10K OCI to justify the cost.

I'm with you Scott. I can do a Pennzoil, Quaker State, etc oil change with OEM oil filter for less than $25 every 3K. It sure makes me warm and fuzzy when I change my own oil and it doesn't come out black as tar.

I'd call redline and ask them a few questions. Get the weight they recommend. It's a first class operation.



There are some UOAs on here that show Redline retaining acceptable TBN for 8-10k miles. I dont have them bookmarked but I remember using them to convince myself that I could do 7500mile intervals on it - its quite costly per mile, but it gives a lot more protection per dollar.

 

[4WD]

As O/K stated - if it's not the Redline in the round bottle (ester etc) … It is just a P66 oil. Same as AC Delco. GIII/GII meets Dex 1.2 … so what is this stuff ?

 

[OilReport99]

Originally Posted by 4WD
As O/K stated - if it's not the Redline in the round bottle (ester etc) … It is just a P66 oil. Same as AC Delco. GIII/GII meets Dex 1.2 … so what is this stuff ?


Good marketing by P66...we're all in it for the money, aren't we?

 

[OilReport99]

Originally Posted by Olas
Originally Posted by Gebo
I am smiling while typing with compassion and understanding for the OP.

I think Redline may be the "best" group of products you can buy. My issue is I have moved into the shorter OCI camp and I just can't quite justify the price of Redline with a shorter OCI. If I had the resources, I'd consider Redline and a 5K OCI. I'd need to go 10K OCI to justify the cost.

I'm with you Scott. I can do a Pennzoil, Quaker State, etc oil change with OEM oil filter for less than $25 every 3K. It sure makes me warm and fuzzy when I change my own oil and it doesn't come out black as tar.

I'd call redline and ask them a few questions. Get the weight they recommend. It's a first class operation.



There are some UOAs on here that show Redline retaining acceptable TBN for 8-10k miles. I dont have them bookmarked but I remember using them to convince myself that I could do 7500mile intervals on it - its quite costly per mile, but it gives a lot more protection per dollar.


How are those UOAs relevant to your engine? Also, 7500 miles seem to be a no-brainer for modern oils running on modern engines. Check dnewton3 posts, he routinely runs 10k on dino oil without problem.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by OilReport99
Originally Posted by Olas
I dont need Redline in my basic and low-powered engine, and I dont have money burning holes in my pockets, but I always go to Redline for engine oil because they are the 'best'.
I like the high amounts of zinc and moly, I like the stability of ester at high temperature and I like how clean the engine is when i last changed the VCG. Its not expensive because they advertise everywhere, it's expensive because it's really really good.

Casio and Audemar Piquet both make watches that tell the time - one costs less than a single quart of M1, and the other costs more than some houses. Guess which one is better?

if you want to try it then I definitely support your choice - your engine will thank you and your wear metals will be lower than ever!


Isn't that what Blackstone has proven wrong?


The only thing Blackstone has proven to me is that they need to calibrate their machines.

It's also not unusual to see a slight uptick in wear metals when changing oils that's not associated with increased wear because of that oil. Imagine previous iron, lead, and copper particles that have slowly accumulated through the engine, embedded in carbon deposits, that then becomes free'd up and put in suspension when a high ester oil dissolves the carbon deposits.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
OVERKILL
So you're saying the black Professional bottle is Phillips 66?
https://www.redlineoil.com/professional-series-5w30-motor-oil
Where's your proof of that?


Weren't you present in the last thread where I posted the screenshots of the PDS's?
Anyways, here's the link: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../2/new-red-line-professional-series-5w40

The provided link is for 5W40 Diesel oil. I'd like proof that Phillips 66 and Redline are the same in 0w20 and 5W30 SN Plus oil. That's the original topic here.