Rotella T5 and T6 in 10w30

Jay Freddy

Jay Freddy

Joined
Dec 20, 2021
Messages
117
Location
Dallas Texas
I was surprised to learn that Rotella T6 is now being offered in 10W30, and the new T6 jug has a pic of a motorcycle on it too.

Oddly, despite having a motorcycle pic on the front of the T6 jug, there are no JASO MA letters on the back!

As I shared recently, the T5 10W30 recently added the JASO MA/MA2 letters on the back of the jug... But there's no motorcycle pic on the front!

It seems odd that they'd go to the trouble of adding JASO MA letters to the T5 jug, but not add the moto pic, but add a moto pic to the T6 jug, without the JASO MA letters.

Did the marketing folks at Shell just drop the ball on this one? Or is it a tacit acknowledgement by Shell that the add pack in the T6 doesn't meet JASO MA specs?
 

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...Or maybe the marketing people are doing this on purpose to create the illusion of mystery and give us something to talk about!
 
kschachn said:
When you don't actually have a JASO license I suppose you can do whatever you want.
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Ha ha, funny... I don't think it's a license. It's a certification. And "meets or exceeds" is a clever wording for, "We can exceed the maximum amount of zinc allowed for the JASO cert because we wrote, 'meets or exceeds' on the label."

I still love my T4 15w40!

"Back in my day Sonny, we'd put 15w40 in bikes spec'ed for 10w30... Just because it said 'Rotella' on the jug!"
 
To further complicate things, the new 2023 version of JASO MA just launched on October 1. It now allows API SN+ and SP oils to be certified, and removes API SG and SH. Max phosphorus is down from 1200 ppm to 1000 ppm to protect catalytic converters. Rotella is above 1000 ppm, but HDEOs aren't even supposed to be certified in the first place unless they are also API Sx, so I'm not sure the new phosphorus requirement would deter Shell from keeping the JASO MA label.

Despite the updates, it's still a rather useless and outdated standard aside from the clutch friction tests, and I'm not convinced those are even important in most applications.
 
Jay Freddy said:
Ha ha, funny... I don't think it's a license. It's a certification. And "meets or exceeds" is a clever wording for, "We can exceed the maximum amount of zinc allowed for the JASO cert because we wrote, 'meets or exceeds' on the label."

I still love my T4 15w40!

"Back in my day Sonny, we'd put 15w40 in bikes spec'ed for 10w30... Just because it said 'Rotella' on the jug!"
Click to expand...
They don't have a certification either.

Rotella is not, and has never been on the official JASO list.
It is not an approved JASO oil (although JASO does not test oils, it goes off the manufactures work, and they pay a small fee to be able to be on the list and put the JASO box on an oil bottle).

Shell puts its JASO word salad on Rotella bottles because they can. It increases their sales a little bit and makes people feel good inside.
Why is in now on the T5 bottle after decades not being on it? Don't know.

That said, I have no issues using Rotella.
 
Oils are formulated for the engine and not the clutch... so you won't
see much difference between the JASO spec and non JASO spec oils...
We don't know for sure if its wet clutch compatible or not until we
pour it in our engines...

JASO is paid to physically set a standard under the scrutiny of
testing and yet they just sell logos claiming the standard was met...
Consumers are not even allowed to review the paper work so we don't
know for sure if an oil is wet clutch compatible or not until we pour
it in our engines... JASO is not much help because they do not test oils.
 
blupupher said:
They don't have a certification either.

Rotella is not, and has never been on the official JASO list.
It is not an approved JASO oil (although JASO does not test oils, it goes off the manufactures work, and they pay a small fee to be able to be on the list and put the JASO box on an oil bottle).

Shell puts its JASO word salad on Rotella bottles because they can. It increases their sales a little bit and makes people feel good inside.
Why is in now on the T5 bottle after decades not being on it? Don't know.

That said, I have no issues using Rotella.
Click to expand...

I know, Shell isn't certified. But JASO isnt licensing anything either.

How long has T5 been around? I honestly don't know.

Back in the early naught years (01,02, 03, etc) it was just Rotella T in 15w40. Essentially what we call T4 15w40 today.

I don't even remember when Rotella T became T4, or when Shell started claiming to "meet or exceed" JASO MA specs.

For many years only the T4 15w40 and T6 5w40 had the JASO MA claim.

The T4 10w30 doesn't claim to meet JASO specs, and it was only in the last year or two that T6 came in the 15w40 version... Also claiming to meet the JASO spec.

The addition of the JASO MA claim to the two flavors of T5 (10w30 and 15w40) is recent, within the past 5 months.

The addition of a 10W30 flavor of T6 is extremely recent. Perhaps Shell was in a hurry to bring it to market and that's why they "forgot" to include the JASO MA claim...

Or perhaps they're giving up that claim altogether. As others have said, the JASO MA/MA2 standard isn't particularly rigorous.
 
Jay Freddy said:
I know, Shell isn't certified. But JASO isnt licensing anything either.

How long has T5 been around? I honestly don't know.

Back in the early naught years (01,02, 03, etc) it was just Rotella T in 15w40. Essentially what we call T4 15w40 today.

I don't even remember when Rotella T became T4, or when Shell started claiming to "meet or exceed" JASO MA specs.

For many years only the T4 15w40 and T6 5w40 had the JASO MA claim.

The T4 10w30 doesn't claim to meet JASO specs, and it was only in the last year or two that T6 came in the 15w40 version... Also claiming to meet the JASO spec.

The addition of the JASO MA claim to the two flavors of T5 (10w30 and 15w40) is recent, within the past 5 months.

The addition of a 10W30 flavor of T6 is extremely recent. Perhaps Shell was in a hurry to bring it to market and that's why they "forgot" to include the JASO MA claim...

Or perhaps they're giving up that claim altogether. As others have said, the JASO MA/MA2 standard isn't particularly rigorous.
Click to expand...
Well you pay your money and you get the ability to use the official logo on the product, so that is a license to me. Nevertheless, Rotella doesn't use the proper JASO logo so you have that. "Recommended for" is about as good as it gets.

Whether you ever notice anything is up to you. I was only commenting on the veracity of any claim SOPUS may make.
 
kschachn said:
Well you pay your money and you get the ability to use the official logo on the product, so that is a license to me. Nevertheless, Rotella doesn't use the proper JASO logo so you have that. "Recommended for" is about as good as it gets.

Whether you ever notice anything is up to you. I was only commenting on the veracity of any claim SOPUS may make.
Click to expand...
If anyone is interested in what Pennzoil/Shell says with tegard to my question to them in the thread linked below, stay tuned. Should be interesting.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...il-and-maintenance-topics.374457/post-6648364
 
most NON energy conserving oils are fine + MANY note using rotella 15-40 for a LONG time in various motorcycles wet clutch or not!!
 
ZeeOSix said:
Click to expand...


Contrary to what that video is saying, my CB1100 takes 4 quarts. My Nissan Note 1.6 liter only takes 3.5. But otherwise, yeah, motorcycle engines aren't the same as car engines.

ZeeOSix said:

​

JASO T903:2023 - Latest JASO Specifications Overview.
Click to expand...

"For oil marketers, the first point of note is that any formulations registered under the T903:2011 version of the specification will soon expire and will need to be upgraded. Formulations registered under the T903:2016 version will be valid until 2028 meaning that there is no immediate need to upgrade existing registered formulations."

Good info, thanks for that.

Since my 2014 CB1100 was designed to the inferior 2011 standard, I should be good until at least 2028 running HDDO in the 10w30 grade, the viscosity recommended in the MOM.

Most likely, it will be fine for the life of the engine running a HDDO in 10w30 grade.
 
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