Rotella T6 Alternatives?

[BusyLittleShop]

The oil viscosity at 100 C (212 F), aks "KV100", is the kinematic viscosity (units of cSt), which is based on how it flows due to gravity.

True... oils are graded on gravity flow timed by a stop watch which is not a measurement of thickness nor weight....

The "W" rating has absolutely nothing to do with the kinematic flow

True... in accordance with ASTM D-5293 it simulates viscosity when subjected to start up conditions at cold temps...

CCS (Cold Cranking Simulator)

 

[ZeeOSix]

True... oils are graded on gravity flow timed by a stop watch which is not a measurement of thickness nor weight....

Well, viscosity is basically a measure of the thickness in layman's terms. A more viscous liquid is considered to be "thicker" than a less viscous liquid. What do you think all those "thick vs thin" oil threads are about?

 

[ZeeOSix]

When's the last time you heard someone say: "Wow, this ketchup is sure high in viscosity" instead of "Wow this ketchup is sure thick"?

 

[troop]

Another thing I've noticed about the Rotella is the strange weights it's available in...one of my bikes calls for 10-30, and the other 10-40...I don't think Rotella is available in those weights...not that a 5-40 is that big of a deal weight wise, I just prefer running the correct weight...is T6 a full syn?

T6 is a full syn oil. T5 is a blend and T4 is petroleum.

 

[GrumpyCat]

T6 dropped gasoline engine ratings years ago, JASO MA requires a gasoline engine rating.

JASO never rated Rotella-T, Shell self-certified. And apparently has de-certified.

 

[grampi]

T6 is a full syn oil. T5 is a blend and T4 is petroleum.

I did some shopping and I didn't find the the T6 available in a 10W-30 or a 10W-40...It definitely looks to be the least expensive full syn, but only available in oddball viscosities, and is not JASO MA spec'd...

 

[Jay Freddy]

When's the last time you heard someone say: "Wow, this ketchup is sure high in viscosity" instead of "Wow this ketchup is sure thick"?

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That's what SHE SAID... Lol!

(She's not fat, she's high in viscosity!)

T6 is a full syn oil. T5 is a blend and T4 is petroleum.

T4 is also considered a blend. The standards which constitute "full" vs "blend" seem to be a moving target, with definitions changing frequently as specs update...

Its an exciting time to be an oil geek! Lol

T6 dropped gasoline engine ratings years ago, JASO MA requires a gasoline engine rating.

JASO never rated Rotella-T, Shell self-certified. And apparently has de-certified.

While they removed the JASO MA/MA2 letters from the T6 bottles, they added them to the T5 bottles, despite the T5 having a more zinc than the standard allows.

I suppose the operating concept here is "meets or exceeds"...

I have been very happy with the T5 10w30 in my CB1100. And the T4 15w40 works great in my VT750s... Although these same bikes didn't like the T6 15w40.

The new T6 bottles may not have JASO letters on them... But they do have pics of little motorcycles!

FWIW, People have been using Rotella in motorcycles longer than the JASO MA spec has existed.

Also, Shell recently added a T6 10w30 to their line. No JASO letters, but yessiree... Cute lil' motorcycle pics on the bottles! 🏍🏍🏍

 

[grampi]

I don't know where I got this, or where anyone else got the notion that T6 is not JASO MA, it's listed on the back of the jug...

 

[We're Metals]

I'm still using the latest T5 in my old Honda. It doesnt seem to care.

 

[GrumpyCat]

FWIW, People have been using Rotella in motorcycles longer than the JASO MA spec has existed.

That would be meaningful if Shell didn’t keep changing the formulation.

 

[Jay Freddy]

That would be meaningful if Shell didn’t keep changing the formulation.

Fair enough. But JASO keeps changing their specs too...

The new T6 bottle with a lil' motorcycle pic on it (but no JASO MA/MA2 letters) is a tacit acknowledgement that Shell is confident recommending products for specific purposes, without the need of an outside self-appointed expert for validation.

Back in the day, people used old Sears catalogs in the outhouse for personal hygiene. When Mr. Whipple came along with squeezably soft Charmin to serve the same purpose, many folks continued using Sears and Roebuck catalogs.

As far as I know, Sears never felt compelled to register their old catalogs with Proctor and Gambel, the overseers of the Charmin brand... Even if they did change ink suppliers from time to time.

If folks like Charmin, great. If folks want to keep using Sears catalogs, that's fine too.

Whatever gets the job done...

 

[SuperSalad]

Fair enough. But JASO keeps changing their specs too...

The new T6 bottle with a lil' motorcycle pic on it (but no JASO MA/MA2 letters) is a tacit acknowledgement that Shell is confident recommending products for specific purposes, without the need of an outside self-appointed expert for validation.

Back in the day, people used old Sears catalogs in the outhouse for personal hygiene. When Mr. Whipple came along with squeezably soft Charmin to serve the same purpose, many folks continued using Sears and Roebuck catalogs.

As far as I know, Sears never felt compelled to register their old catalogs with Proctor and Gambel, the overseers of the Charmin brand... Even if they did change ink suppliers from time to time.

If folks like Charmin, great. If folks want to keep using Sears catalogs, that's fine too.

Whatever gets the job done...

I've never seen a more apt analogy be made on this topic

 

[ZeeOSix]

Fair enough. But JASO keeps changing their specs too...

Not much really ... takes them forever to make updates to the JASO requirements. Their changes might be more towards the requirements relaxation direction than the more restrictive direction.

 

[troop]

Does the T6 5w40 flavor meet any SL/SM/SN API ratings? I don't see that anywhere..

 

[ZeeOSix]

Does the T6 5w40 flavor meet any SL/SM/SN API ratings? I don't see that anywhere..

No, because it's a diesel oil, so has diesel oil API ratings.

 

[troop]

No, because it's a diesel oil, so has diesel oil API ratings.

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View attachment 201086

But so is M1 5w40 turbo diesel oil. Just curious.

 

[SuperSalad]

No, because it's a diesel oil, so has diesel oil API ratings.

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View attachment 201086

Technically, if they are claiming JASO MA/MA2 compliance it would need to also comply with at least one API gas spec between SJ and SP, as per page 5 of the manual: https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV2305.pdf

Though you're right that they don't claim it on the bottle, it is sort of implied if you squint your brain real hard lol

 

[ZeeOSix]

Technically, if they are claiming JASO MA/MA2 compliance it would need to also comply with at least one API gas spec between SJ and SP, as per page 5 of the manual: https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV2305.pdf

Though you're right that they don't claim it on the bottle, it is sort of implied if you squint your brain real hard lol

Or the other possibility is Shell doesn't really fully meet all the specs in the JASO documentation (like the API part of JASO), but it meets the performance specs (like the friction testing only perhaps?) so they put that JASO statement on the bottle. All it says is "Meets the performance requirements", whatever that means from Shell's perspective. Shell didn't have it registered (there is no JASO registration logo on the bottle), so you simply have to believe them. Where as all those other API ratings wouldn't be on the bottle without an actual certification process. I think API might be a bit upset if they just slapped that on the bottles without going through the official API testing process.

I asked this question to Pennzoil about their motorcycle oil that says it's JASO rated on the bottle (but doesn't have the JASO registration logo either) in the linked thread below, but they ignored my question and gave no answers ... wonder why, lol.

Pennzoil Q&A – General Motor Oil and Maintenance Topics

Hello BITOG Members, Pennzoil here! We are excited to continue the conversation around the industry’s trending topics. Starting today, we invite you to submit your questions in this thread for Sean Nguyen, Pennzoil Technical Scientist and Automotive Lubricant Specialist. Questions can range...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[BusyLittleShop]

so you simply have to believe them.

We have no choice other to take their word because JASO don't test oils nor do they certify an oil is wet clutch compatible... they just register oils based on submitter claims behind closed doors... The system is just set up for registration at $365 per oil...

 

[Bonz]

JASO changes their specs, but the motorcycle in your garage is unaffected by that. If you want to see the oil make up, find a recent analysis with respect to the additive package see if it has what you want for your bike. Shell doesn't give a rip about motorcycles using their oil, probably tired of people emailing them about the certification, so they just took it off of the bottle.

To honestly be concerned any main stream diesel oil in an appropriate weight has magic pixie dust that would be harmful in it that another oil doesn't, is quite paranoid.

By the way, when was the last time any one of us or anyone we know had their motorcycle engine wear out or have an oil related failure with a Rotella oil or any oil? Who's warranty wasn't honored because of the oil in the crankcase, looking for folks speaking from experience on any of these points.

I have used T4 15w40 (JASO rating), T5 15w40 (no JASO rating at that time) T6 (JASO rating) in my bike, a higher horsepower, higher torque engine and it "don't care". Should nickname it the Honey Badger.