Oversized filter discussion (please excuse my ignorance)

[OptOut]

Well. I feel like a schmuck starting this because I'm sure what I'm asking is available somewhere but please know I have spent quite a while on this forum, RamForums, and the google machine trying to find a satisfactory answer.
I have a 19' Ram Classic with the 5.7
I run PUP 5W20 and a bottle of LubeGard BioTech on 5000mi OCI
Why do I do such a "babied" OCI? My work commute and driving conditions are demanding and way, way beyond "severe service."
I've been running Fram XG2 ever since I swapped the factory fill at 5000mi
I have finally run out of the "old style" XG2's which I stockpiled before they changed their media.
Why? 99% at 20micron and running the same small filter on my truck as a sedan didn't seem right. I found the XG2 has the same threads and the gasket was within tolerance. So I ran/run oversized to help minimize bypass
Now I'm on the hunt for the same performance
The Napa Gold 1372 and its Wix counterpart claim 99% at 20micron
I cannot find the bypass pressure rating for the applicable Napa/Wix filter and the Mopar filter (with its OEM bypass pressure) and am left wondering if the Napa Gold will be in bypass for any longer than my local arctic winters may demand.
My questions
1. Are the 1372's bypass pressures lower than OEM
2. Is the 1372 actually 99% at 20micron
3. If the 1372 has lower bypass pressures than OEM, what filter(s) would provide me 99% at 20micron, equal or greater bypass pressures than OEM, and (prefferably) be OEM
My apologies for being very OCD (the lifter failure on the 5.7 Eagle is a personal phobia) and asking something that may be available somewhere that I could not find.
Thank you

 

[dnewton3]

You are overthinking this whole topic.

The engine oil filter rarely ever goes into BP. This generally only occurs when you use thick lubes and then stab the throttle (WOT) when the engine oil is cold. (There's an old thread from years ago here where Jim Allen did some very detailed field testing of his F150 and the same filter). The filter could also go into BP if you grossly (and I mean WAY, WAY past any sensible means) extended your FCI; not an issue given your 5k mile OCI plan. So in a sense, the BP is moot. What little it would open would just be a very short "burp" to relieve pressure and then its right back to filtering.

As for the efficiency of Wix ... they typically claim 2/20=6/20 which equates to 95% at 20um. That's certainly decent. There are filters with greater efficiency, but you'd never know it in real world wear data over 5k miles.

 

[dwendt44]

Check with the Fram equivalent. they list the bypass
rating on their site.
Bypass only comes into play at very cold temps. but you are using a 5W oil so it's not likely to go into bypass or stay there long.
My 2¢

 

[Hall]

My work commute and driving conditions are demanding and way, way beyond "severe service."

Describe it

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Describe it

3 miles each way with 4 stop signs

 

[Bellavita]

You are overthinking this whole topic.

The engine oil filter rarely ever goes into BP. This generally only occurs when you use thick lubes and then stab the throttle (WOT) when the engine oil is cold. (There's an old thread from years ago here where Jim Allen did some very detailed field testing of his F150 and the same filter). The filter could also go into BP if you grossly (and I mean WAY, WAY past any sensible means) extended your FCI; not an issue given your 5k mile OCI plan. So in a sense, the BP is moot. What little it would open would just be a very short "burp" to relieve pressure and then its right back to filtering.

As for the efficiency of Wix ... they typically claim 2/20=6/20 which equates to 95% at 20um. That's certainly decent. There are filters with greater efficiency, but you'd never know it in real world wear data over 5k miles.

Thank you for the clear explanation on the bypass valve and what gets it to activate. I've read the numerous responses on this topic from you, ZeeOSix and the Jim Allen testing and I've concluded we don't need to worry about it when selecting an oil filter!

Practice sensible driving habits and its truly a non-event.

 

[oldhp]

From WIX;

Part Number:​	51372​
UPC Number:​	765809513723​
Style:​	Spin-On Lube Filter​
Service:​	Lube​
Type:​	Full Flow​
Media:​	Enhanced Cellulose​
Height:​	3.836 (97)*​
Outer Diameter Top:​	3.668 (93)*​
Outer Diameter Bottom:​	Closed:​
Thread Size:​	22X1.5 MM​
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI:​	22​
Anti-Drain Back Valve:​	Yes​
Beta Ratio:​	2/20=12/25​
Burst Pressure-PSI:​	275​
Max Flow Rate:​	11-13 GPM​
Nominal Micron Rating:​	21​

( )* denotes metric

Gasket Diameters​

Number​	O.D.​	I.D.​	Thk.​
Attached​	2.834 (72)*​	2.462 (63)*​	0.200 (5)*​

​

​

​

 

[racer12306]

Curious if you were ever concerned about the minimal gap between the large filter and the hard lines right next to the filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The Napa Gold 1372 and its Wix counterpart claim 99% at 20 micron.

Where are you seeing that spec? Thought it was 95% @ 20u.

Why not just go with the Fram Endurance if you still want a high efficiency wire-backed oil filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

1. Are the 1372's bypass pressures lower than OEM

You can't really compare filter bypass valve settings between oil filter brands for the same engine application. The filter bypass valve setting has a lot to do with how the filter flows, loads up and its holding capacity. The engines it is specified for has a bearing to based on the oil viscosity and oil pump output. Engines with crazy high volume oil pumps will most likely have a higher bypass setting to ensure the filter doesn't bypass too often. Some filters can be specified for 100 engines - and it has to work on the most demanding engine with the worse case oil viscosity and max pump flow output in mind. If you made a list of all the oil filters that are specified for your engine, the bypass valve setting wouldn't be the same for all those oil filter, all specified for you engine by the filter engineer/designer. The bottom line is trust the engineers/designers that specified an oil filter for your engine. And use big know brand name oil filters, not some off the wall brand unless you know it's been made by one of the main big name filter manufacturers.

 

[oil pan 4]

A 20 or 22psi filter bypass won't matter if the engine has a built in 5psi bypass.

 

[ZeeOSix]

A 20 or 22psi filter bypass won't matter if the engine has a built in 5psi bypass.

True, if the filter bypass is greater than the built-in bypass, then the filter bypass should operate. But built-in filter bypass valves are not set that low, they are typically around 12-16 PSI.

 

[oil pan 4]

I have seen a few built in bypasses that opened up around 3 to 5 PSI. Bypasses like that seems to be a least uncommon.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I have seen a few built in bypasses that opened up around 3 to 5 PSI. Bypasses like that seems to be a least uncommon.

Doesn't take much for a brand new oil filter to have a delta-p of 3-5 PSI, so whoever decided to set a built-in filter bypass valve to 3-5 PSI should probably look for a different career, lol.

 

[oil pan 4]

I think it was a case of the wrong spring got used, I hope. If I found one with an exceptionally weak spring I usually found a way to increase that bypass pressure one way or another.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I think it was a case of the wrong spring got used, I hope. If I found one with an exceptionally weak spring I usually found a way to increase that bypass pressure one way or another.

Can't just go by the spring pressure ... also need to know the area that the pressure acts to open the valve mechanism. The larger the active surface area, the stronger the spring needs in order to achieve a constant target valve opening pressure.

P=F/A [units of lb/sq-in = PSI]

If a bypass valve is designed to open at 12 PSI, and A is 0.25 sq-in, then the spring force F would be F=PA = 12 x 0.25 = 3 lbs.
If A was larger at 0.5 sq-in, then the spring force F would have to be F=PA = 12 x 0.5 = 6 lbs.

 

[oil pan 4]

Yeah I was getting like 1/3 of square inch surfaces area and they had ounces to a pound of closing force.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yeah I was getting like 1/3 of square inch surfaces area and they had ounces to a pound of closing force.

It the pressure acting area was 0.33 sq-in and it only took a pound of force to make the valve crack open, then it would only take P=F/A = 1/0.33 = 3 PSI of delta-p to open the valve. That seems way too low.

This was a filter bypass valve built into the engine? Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[oil pan 4]

I would like to think they just included the wrong spring.

 

[bullwinkle]

Well. I feel like a schmuck starting this because I'm sure what I'm asking is available somewhere but please know I have spent quite a while on this forum, RamForums, and the google machine trying to find a satisfactory answer.
I have a 19' Ram Classic with the 5.7
I run PUP 5W20 and a bottle of LubeGard BioTech on 5000mi OCI
Why do I do such a "babied" OCI? My work commute and driving conditions are demanding and way, way beyond "severe service."
I've been running Fram XG2 ever since I swapped the factory fill at 5000mi
I have finally run out of the "old style" XG2's which I stockpiled before they changed their media.
Why? 99% at 20micron and running the same small filter on my truck as a sedan didn't seem right. I found the XG2 has the same threads and the gasket was within tolerance. So I ran/run oversized to help minimize bypass
Now I'm on the hunt for the same performance
The Napa Gold 1372 and its Wix counterpart claim 99% at 20micron
I cannot find the bypass pressure rating for the applicable Napa/Wix filter and the Mopar filter (with its OEM bypass pressure) and am left wondering if the Napa Gold will be in bypass for any longer than my local arctic winters may demand.
My questions
1. Are the 1372's bypass pressures lower than OEM
2. Is the 1372 actually 99% at 20micron
3. If the 1372 has lower bypass pressures than OEM, what filter(s) would provide me 99% at 20micron, equal or greater bypass pressures than OEM, and (prefferably) be OEM
My apologies for being very OCD (the lifter failure on the 5.7 Eagle is a personal phobia) and asking something that may be available somewhere that I could not find.
Thank you

I'm a little late to this one, but you should be able to find wire backed XG2 filters, or FE2 AAP Titaniums, I don't think they ever lost the wire backing in those.