Oil gimmick discussion thread

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
There have been Alpino (white fur) deer spotted in the woods in my area. Not often. But they sure have been seen. My dad saw one in the woods I think...



Every time the word albino comes up, I think of Bad Bob in Judge Roy Bean drinking hot coffee right out of the pot from the fire.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Think you’d need a turbo just to offset viscosity on this stuff:




I used the 10w30 grade of Turbo V.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Now Mobil 1 has Annual Protection, and it's probably the result of marketing studies showing consumers don't want to be bothered changing oil more than once a year.


Corvettes have come from the factory for many years with the regular Mobil 1 synthetic, and GM recommends up to a 1 year oil change if mileage/OLM isn't met first. So if regular Mobil 1 synthetic can go 1 year, then why did Mobil come out with the "Annual Protection" line?

 

[PimTac]

M1 AP is good for up to 20k miles according to Mobil. So it’s aimed at drivers who drive a lot.

 

[TheMidnightNarwh]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Now Mobil 1 has Annual Protection, and it's probably the result of marketing studies showing consumers don't want to be bothered changing oil more than once a year.


Corvettes have come from the factory for many years with the regular Mobil 1 synthetic, and GM recommends up to a 1 year oil change if mileage/OLM isn't met first. So if regular Mobil 1 synthetic can go 1 year, then why did Mobil come out with the "Annual Protection" line?

See this is why I want to discuss this. Like I know there isn't any point and it's just for my mind, but [censored]? Although annual protection mentions "Ultimate engine protection for 20,000 miles or 1 full year" and underneath that in small text they say "Please follow the recommendations in your owner's manual while your car is under warranty."

Honestly I don't get it even from a money perceptive? If they would only do regular oil and full synthetic wouldn't they still make as much money. Or are they using some kind of byproduct or things that they couldn't use for a certain product and creating these new ones?

 

[4WD]

You you should firstly understand the average age of vehicles on the road in America … so then you’ll realize how many 1000’s are not under warranty … then you’re gonna realize they knew that …
What they missed is many of those very folks live paycheck to paycheck and don’t look for $40-$50 jug oil … and people who do have money got there not spending too much …

I don’t have the oldest set of wheels in signature by far … but only one is still under warranty …
I’m not a 20k oil type … my schedule allows me time to change oil …

 

[SonofJoe]

I once got talking to an old South African who worked in their rather excellent wine industry.

He explained to me that it was common practice to ship mainstream grade wine in bulk containers to the UK, where it would be bottled up into various shaped bottles with a multiplicity of different labels. These bottles would then target a range of different market price points; some cheap, some expensive. The motive force behind this complexity was to bamboozle the customer, subvert his ability to compare and maximise the value of the bulk shipment.

Life in the engine oil business is much the same. I've developed products that fully comply with ACEA A3/B4 but when I see the corresponding oil in the supermarket, I see two bottles; one for petrol engines marked A3 only and another for diesel engines marked B4 only. It's not a lie but it's not 100% of the truth either. Likewise, basically the same oil can be distinguished by the addition of a tiny amount of 'a funny' and sold at a much higher premium.

Such are the joys of mindless capitalism...

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I once got talking to an old South African who worked in their rather excellent wine industry.

He explained to me that it was common practice to ship mainstream grade wine in bulk containers to the UK, where it would be bottled up into various shaped bottles with a multiplicity of different labels. These bottles would then target a range of different market price points; some cheap, some expensive. The motive force behind this complexity was to bamboozle the customer, subvert his ability to compare and maximise the value of the bulk shipment.
...


Interesting story...I used to wonder if bum wine was just regular wine that had maybe gone a bit vinegary in storage and then had some petrochemicals added to it. Go take a whiff of something like MD 20/20 or Thunderbird and tell me there isn't something extracted from crude oil in there...

I once hosted a bum wine tasting party at work in honor of a website that reviewed such wines in a hilarious fashion...we all ended up with bad headaches and had to leave early. The CEO at this company was old school and served alcohol at all company parties, if we happened to be in CA at the HQ when one of them was being held we could pack our faces with really good sushi and guzzle down beer and wine with wild abandon.

I noticed my mom liked to drink something called Cold Duck when I was a little boy and I figured that it must be something really fancy...imagine my horror when I grew up and found that it was a small step above Thunderbird (what's the word?).

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh
My oil change is due soon and I was looking for some oil on sale since that's the only way us Canadians can buy affordable engine oil... that said it is simply astonishing how much there seems to be some types of gimmicky oil? Not even talking about oil weights here.

You can get
- Fully synthetic
- Fully synthetic long lasting
- Synthetic blend
- High millage synth blend
- High mileage full synth
- Fuel economy
- Conventional
and probably more that I did not spot yet...



"Conventional oil" is a "gimmick" now?

OK, maybe in the US it is, especially as, by extension from the "synthetic" confusion, it doesn't seem to have a definition.

What was it before it was a gimmick?

 

[littleant]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
If they can’t get you to pull their jug off the shelf, they have failed. Plain and simple.
^ And there you have it ^

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I once got talking to an old South African who worked in their rather excellent wine industry.

He explained to me that it was common practice to ship mainstream grade wine in bulk containers to the UK, where it would be bottled up into various shaped bottles with a multiplicity of different labels. These bottles would then target a range of different market price points; some cheap, some expensive. The motive force behind this complexity was to bamboozle the customer, subvert his ability to compare and maximise the value of the bulk shipment.
...


Interesting story...I used to wonder if bum wine was just regular wine that had maybe gone a bit vinegary in storage and then had some petrochemicals added to it. Go take a whiff of something like MD 20/20 or Thunderbird and tell me there isn't something extracted from crude oil in there...

I once hosted a bum wine tasting party at work in honor of a website that reviewed such wines in a hilarious fashion...we all ended up with bad headaches and had to leave early. The CEO at this company was old school and served alcohol at all company parties, if we happened to be in CA at the HQ when one of them was being held we could pack our faces with really good sushi and guzzle down beer and wine with wild abandon.

I noticed my mom liked to drink something called Cold Duck when I was a little boy and I figured that it must be something really fancy...imagine my horror when I grew up and found that it was a small step above Thunderbird (what's the word?).


I think that old South African's wine story, plus my background in formulating engine oils, has definitely coloured my attitude towards anything labelled (and priced) as 'premium'.

Wine, for all the guff that's heaped upon it, is just fermented grape juice. I don't know how much of it I've thrown down my neck over the last fifty years but it's A LOT! Yet even now, TBH, I'd struggle to differentiate one wine from another. And if that's truly the case, then I'm stupid if I spend £30 on a bottle of plonk if I get the same experience from something that costs £3 a bottle!

With a few caveats, I might say approach engine oil in the same way. In my experience, there's little reason to have faith in brands over non-brands. As often as not, the stuff's based around the same chemistry and data set.

 

[SuperSalad]

Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
What you are describing as "gimmicks" are just things. I'm not sure what the complaint is really about. As far as I can tell, you just don't like choices.

Gimmicks are silly things that don't actually work or are pure marketing hype. Things like semi-synthetics, conventionals, and full synthetics are not gimmicks. They are types of lubricants.


How are they not gimmicks. Who would not just follow their owner's manual recommendation. Manual will either say synthetic or not and grade.

What is the point of the rest of the oils I listed?

So now I'm confused about why you were even looking at these different types of oil. Just buy the OEM oil if that is your stance.

Companies compete with one another and just printing the same exact thing as the next one doesn't do much to catch a customer's eye. They aren't gimmicks, they are branding trying to convey a message. For instance, if they say something like "High Mileage" but actually offer nothing different in that formula from their other types, that would be a marketing gimmick. However, as far as I am aware, the formulas for different types are different in one way or another, thereby making them not gimmicks.

 

[CaspianM]

It is all about choices.They are not gimmick.
What manual says is only a guide line and base specification of oil that car is designed to use.
Your manual also recommend tires based on size only buy you have other choices.

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
What you are describing as "gimmicks" are just things. I'm not sure what the complaint is really about. As far as I can tell, you just don't like choices.

Gimmicks are silly things that don't actually work or are pure marketing hype. Things like semi-synthetics, conventionals, and full synthetics are not gimmicks. They are types of lubricants.


How are they not gimmicks. Who would not just follow their owner's manual recommendation. Manual will either say synthetic or not and grade.

What is the point of the rest of the oils I listed?


My Colorado's manual says to use 5W-30 oil meeting GM 6094M. Change according to the OLM.

Doesn't say anything about conventional, synthetic, blend, high mileage...so your point is incorrect.

 

[TheMidnightNarwh]

Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
What you are describing as "gimmicks" are just things. I'm not sure what the complaint is really about. As far as I can tell, you just don't like choices.

Gimmicks are silly things that don't actually work or are pure marketing hype. Things like semi-synthetics, conventionals, and full synthetics are not gimmicks. They are types of lubricants.


How are they not gimmicks. Who would not just follow their owner's manual recommendation. Manual will either say synthetic or not and grade.

What is the point of the rest of the oils I listed?

So now I'm confused about why you were even looking at these different types of oil. Just buy the OEM oil if that is your stance.

Companies compete with one another and just printing the same exact thing as the next one doesn't do much to catch a customer's eye. They aren't gimmicks, they are branding trying to convey a message. For instance, if they say something like "High Mileage" but actually offer nothing different in that formula from their other types, that would be a marketing gimmick. However, as far as I am aware, the formulas for different types are different in one way or another, thereby making them not gimmicks.


The definition of gimmicks is "a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or trade.". So they are.

 

[TheMidnightNarwh]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
What you are describing as "gimmicks" are just things. I'm not sure what the complaint is really about. As far as I can tell, you just don't like choices.

Gimmicks are silly things that don't actually work or are pure marketing hype. Things like semi-synthetics, conventionals, and full synthetics are not gimmicks. They are types of lubricants.


How are they not gimmicks. Who would not just follow their owner's manual recommendation. Manual will either say synthetic or not and grade.

What is the point of the rest of the oils I listed?


My Colorado's manual says to use 5W-30 oil meeting GM 6094M. Change according to the OLM.

Doesn't say anything about conventional, synthetic, blend, high mileage...so your point is incorrect.


What year is it? If it's been before a certain time then it's conventional. If it needs synthetic it will say.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh

Like, what the F. Then I do some of my own research which show they appear to be gimmick and just sticking to whatever you had (full synthetic or conventional) is good enough. But then, how do the companies keep selling and having all these products up?


There's one company that's on the forefront of this chicanery, and they also command about $60 a jug MSRP at CT for their least certified product. I neither support that company or CT's retail prices. By marketing an excess of 'tailored' products, the offenders really intend to assault the consumer's psychology with the perception of choices and options, and that in turn increases the chances that consumer buys a product with your brand on it. It's all marketing psychology and good for any consumer that knows to protect themselves from it.
Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
What you are describing as "gimmicks" are just things. I'm not sure what the complaint is really about. As far as I can tell, you just don't like choices.

Gimmicks are silly things that don't actually work or are pure marketing hype. Things like semi-synthetics, conventionals, and full synthetics are not gimmicks. They are types of lubricants.


How are they not gimmicks. Who would not just follow their owner's manual recommendation. Manual will either say synthetic or not and grade.

What is the point of the rest of the oils I listed?

So now I'm confused about why you were even looking at these different types of oil. Just buy the OEM oil if that is your stance.

Companies compete with one another and just printing the same exact thing as the next one doesn't do much to catch a customer's eye. They aren't gimmicks, they are branding trying to convey a message. For instance, if they say something like "High Mileage" but actually offer nothing different in that formula from their other types, that would be a marketing gimmick. However, as far as I am aware, the formulas for different types are different in one way or another, thereby making them not gimmicks.


The definition of gimmicks is "a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or trade.". So they are.

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Originally Posted By: TheMidnightNarwh
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
What you are describing as "gimmicks" are just things. I'm not sure what the complaint is really about. As far as I can tell, you just don't like choices.

Gimmicks are silly things that don't actually work or are pure marketing hype. Things like semi-synthetics, conventionals, and full synthetics are not gimmicks. They are types of lubricants.


How are they not gimmicks. Who would not just follow their owner's manual recommendation. Manual will either say synthetic or not and grade.

What is the point of the rest of the oils I listed?


My Colorado's manual says to use 5W-30 oil meeting GM 6094M. Change according to the OLM.

Doesn't say anything about conventional, synthetic, blend, high mileage...so your point is incorrect.


What year is it? If it's been before a certain time then it's conventional. If it needs synthetic it will say.


2006.

Yet my wife's 2013 Mazda 3 2.0 SkyActiv says:

USA and Canada: Synthetic 0W-20 ILSAC GF-5 for best fuel mileage

Except USA and Canada: Use 5W-20 [doesn't specify synth or dino]

Mexico: Use 5W-20 or 5W-30, API SM or ILSAC

They recommend Castrol in all cases.

So, does it matter what oil I use in this car?

Because my wife does really short trips, I run Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 and change it between 4k-5k due to oil dilution.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier


My Colorado's manual says to use 5W-30 oil meeting GM 6094M. Change according to the OLM.

Doesn't say anything about conventional, synthetic, blend, high mileage...so your point is incorrect.

And if you did this, would you ever feel compelled to purchase Zorbel 7's 'Yearly Oil Change' at a premium price?

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: Brigadier


My Colorado's manual says to use 5W-30 oil meeting GM 6094M. Change according to the OLM.

Doesn't say anything about conventional, synthetic, blend, high mileage...so your point is incorrect.

And if you did this, would you ever feel compelled to purchase Zorbel 7's 'Yearly Oil Change' at a premium price?


No, because I was following the manual, and the OLM, and had to have my VVT solenoid replaced because it got all gunked up. So I don't go past 6k OCI, which is about 5-6 months.