Now its my turn to get fired

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Originally Posted By: joaks
So I am not fired yet, but I think it is close. I work at a startup biotech. Got overwhelmed and made bad decisions. Completely my fault. Trying to find a new job before I get fired for real but am not sure if I can make it happen.

I am thinking about getting a regular job. Something not in science, but what would pay okay and would take someone with a PhD? I don't mind if it is outside or difficult etc.

I feel lousy...


Academia? Plenty fertile ground for PhD employment.

Government service of some sort?

Crime lab / forensics?


Academia isn't that fertile for tenure track professorships. It's very cutthroat with tons of drama, huge influxes of non-citizens vying for grant work and scholarships funded by US tax money, etc. Promotion is based upon money you bring in, then on your publication/graduation metrics and "service" to the University/community. Not bad on the surface, but it affects how some go approach the situation. If NIH is like NSF, it's a bit of an old boy's club too. Being an adjunct around here pays about $6k/class, so not enough to support oneself really.

Agree on the others.

Startups are always in a boom-bust cycle, always hiring and firing. If one is let go from a startup, I suspect there's less baggage and less of a negative optic, assuming departure is on reasonably friendly terms and the mess-up wasn't too crazy or bad.

 

[ZZman]

All I read about is people are hiring but can't find skilled people. If you have skills you should have no problem finding a job.

 

[joaks]

Part of my problem is that I have been under a lot of stress, which makes me anxious, which leads to mistakes and more stress. Trying to set up a psyc appointment this morning. I don't think I can manage my ADHD without some type of treatment.

Only minor mistakes beforehand but we are under pressure from investors so even small mistakes are a problem. My big mistake this last time was misunderstanding what should have been an obvious instruction.

 

[JamesBond]

Cujets response is good, people want to help you out, not because they are great people, but because it makes them feel important and look good. Communication is key in all relationships.

Can you work with your supervisor to create a system to prevent a problem like this in the future? It could be as simple as creating a daily log of your tasks along with regular meetings with your supervisor to discuss it. Sure this will be a little embarrassing and you will be the "problem child" for a while, but this can be the "management experience" that your boss can put on their resume which can turn a negative into a positive for them as well. This creates incentive for someone to have your back and now there are 2 of you that have an interest in you keeping your job.

Over time confidence in you will return.

 

[Number_35]

Originally Posted By: joaks
So I am not fired yet, but I think it is close. I work at a startup biotech. Got overwhelmed and made bad decisions. Completely my fault. Trying to find a new job before I get fired for real but am not sure if I can make it happen.

I am thinking about getting a regular job. Something not in science, but what would pay okay and would take someone with a PhD? I don't mind if it is outside or difficult etc.

I feel lousy...

The fact that made an honest mistake and owned up to it says to me that you're a trustworthy person, which is essential in a good employee. With a PhD, you're obviously intelligent too. If your work ethic is also good, I'm sure you're a really good employee. As others have said, talk to your supervisor(s) and see what can be done.

My last supervisor was a very good fellow - he had created a non-blaming type of environment in which we were unafraid to tell him and our peers when we'd made a mistake. His approach seemed to be "OK, here's the situation, what can we do to fix it, and how can we prevent a similar occurrence going forward?".

The blaming-type approach tends to make people try to hide their mistakes or to pin them on others.

 

[Vikas]

I can't think of what kind of "mistake" a white collar employee can do to get oneself fired on the spot?

Is it like "I accidentally put excrement on my boss's desk. But it was an honest mistake"
or is it like "I never actually did the experiments but just came up with the bogus data and I accidentally submitted it"
or is it like "I accidentally brought liquor bottle to work and I accidentally drank it at my desk"

I know I am coming up with crazy scenarios but it seems rather odd that a person with PhD degree and working somewhere his PhD degree is needed for employment would be making fire-able "mistake".

Anybody else having the same thoughts?

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I can't think of what kind of "mistake" a white collar employee can do to get oneself fired on the spot?

Is it like "I accidentally put excrement on my boss's desk. But it was an honest mistake"
or is it like "I never actually did the experiments but just came up with the bogus data and I accidentally submitted it"
or is it like "I accidentally brought liquor bottle to work and I accidentally drank it at my desk"

I know I am coming up with crazy scenarios but it seems rather odd that a person with PhD degree and working somewhere his PhD degree is needed for employment would be making fire-able "mistake".

Anybody else having the same thoughts?

I dunno, ordering $200k of experiment with a small but critical procedure mistake, would be get the guys funding it a bit hot under the collar I'd think?
With no sales or income, I guess a start up has to be really sharp on the R&D or it won't get far.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
In the aviation world, those of us that are professionals; 1) admit we recognize the mistake AND how it happened. 2) Take the steps to prevent a similar mistake. 3) Briefly articulate what those steps are. 4) Ask for help with the issue, right away if needed.


It could be as simple as "I took (x) risk, and it seemed at the time to be worthwhile" . Or "I believed in (x) person, and used him instead of (x) .. etc. I think you get my point here, honest articulation of the situation works towards solving it.

However, if someone comes to me and says "I don't know why I did that", they are gone, immediately. As they cannot (or will not) articulate the problem, and therefore are incapable of solving it.

FYI, asking for help often works, as even the most miserable of people often want to help.

I wish you well.


I think the above advice applies in any profession. When I was a Business Owner, people made occasional mistakes (everybody does at some point). It was how/whether they recognized what they did wrong, and how to fix it going forward, that determined whether they stayed employed with me.

 

[Mr Nice]

02SE,

What kind of business did you own ?

Yes, all employees make mistakes. An effort has to be made to minimize their error(s). I once made an $18,000 mistake.

 

[02SE]

Primarily, it was a commercial furniture business, but not exclusively. Most of the business was with taxpayer funded entities, so almost all of my business was subject to a bidding process to get the contract.

These days I pursue a hobby, which involves my overseeing employees for a client. In this case it's not just monetary concerns, but also serious safety hazards if things aren't done properly.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Primarily, it was a commercial furniture business, but not exclusively. Most of the business was with taxpayer funded entities, so almost all of my business was subject to a bidding process to get the contract.

These days I pursue a hobby, which involves my overseeing employees for a client. In this case it's not just monetary concerns, but also serious safety hazards if things aren't done properly.


In a case like the JFR engine explosions, does a team first look at the assembly and the people doing it or a parts supplier?

 

[SevenBizzos]

You may be surprised by it or you may not, but most people let go from a job do A LOT better at the next one. Real life, and witness to it multiple times over.

 

[Nyogtha]

I worked at two refineries that were "on the bubble" where corporate HQ spent 50% of their time running economics for keeping the facility running and 50% of their time running shutdown economic projections. Operating on a shoestring magnifies things tremendously, failures and successes, and also stress levels for everyone involved. It also makes political effects associated with mistakes much larger.

Happily, both those facilities are not only still running but have been expanded, and I feel a personal stake in helping that happen. But I understand how a startup could be similarly stressful and magnify everything that happens.

I think you're wise in seeking medical assessment, and perhaps a return to something you're comfortable in and have been successful in before could be a good temporary move to rebuild confidence. It would also let you really focus on why you pursued the education path you chose and try to find the best fit of your interests and opportunities in your job market, even if it means taking a few more classes (like if you wanted to switch to forensics, some law enforcement / criminal justice oriented education may be in order for best chance of success). Sometimes learning what you don't enjoy doing is necessary to help figure out what ypu would enjoy doing.

Luckily, it sounds like you have a supportive spouse to help you work through this.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal

In a case like the JFR engine explosions, does a team first look at the assembly and the people doing it or a parts supplier?


On a big budget team like JFR that has the necessary supply of new (non-fatigued) parts, it's more often an assembly, set-up, or tuning issue.

Parts rarely are the issue when new. Although that's not unheard of.

The low-budget teams that try and use parts well beyond the duty-cycle limit, also add the fatigued parts factor to the complicated puzzle of assembly, set-up, and tuning.

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
...if you wanted to switch to forensics, some law enforcement / criminal justice oriented education may be in order for best chance of success

This sounds like a really good suggestion. There should be aspects of forensics that are really close to what you've studied. A relevant PhD should give you a leg up on becoming an expert witness. Your initial work likely would be in regular law enforcement but there may be major opportunities later as a free lancer.

Rather than more open ended study, I'd look for someone to pay you while you learn. So a lower level job at first, but with the potential for rapid advancement. In Canada that would be the RCMP or a provincial or big city police force. In the US the FBI would be one logical option but there would be many others.

 

[PandaBear]

It's ok, if you have never been fired you probably haven't been around long enough or took enough risk in your life. You'll just need some time to get over it.

Find what interests you in the first place for your PhD, and go from there. You can stay in a big pharma for a while and then try something later. Or you can go learn a new skill, like software, and do work in your domain knowledge. I think there's a huge demand for scientists who can code and can do machine learning.

Take care.