Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Amsoil have ACEA A5
Unfortunately a lot of folks here won't use Amsoil.
Amsoil have ACEA A5
Unfortunately a lot of folks here won't use Amsoil.
Motor oil recommendations are not requirements.
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Why not?
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
The Hyundai/Kia dealer near me is dishonest, so even though you could jump through hoops like using ACEA A5 and changing the oil on time, they would still try to fool you out of a warranty repair. No engine should fail using quality oil (conventional or synthetic) and changing every 3-5k miles.
Dealers make money doing warranty work. I'm sure the dealer principal would like to know if his service advisors are turning away easy money.
The Hyundai/Kia dealer near me is dishonest, so even though you could jump through hoops like using ACEA A5 and changing the oil on time, they would still try to fool you out of a warranty repair. No engine should fail using quality oil (conventional or synthetic) and changing every 3-5k miles.
Dealers make money doing warranty work. I'm sure the dealer principal would like to know if his service advisors are turning away easy money.
Originally Posted By: Rand
bah its all semanics.. but if they say your oil caused the issue.. spending 10000 on a lawyer is alot more expensive than just using the right oil.
Jeep says
Quote:
Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) — 3.2L Engine
MOPAR SAE 5W-20 engine oil or equivalent Pennzoil or
Shell Helix is recommended for all operating tempera-
tures.
but they ALSO SAY
Quote:
Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certi-
fication mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade num-
ber should not be used.
Quote:
You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recom-
mended oil quality requirements are met, and the recom-
mended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes
are followed.
Synthetic engine oils which do not have both the engine
oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade
number should not be used.
That is about as clear as mud.. what is an engine oil certification mark?
What is the recommended oil quality requirement?
they list NO required, just recommended. It basically boils down to
lawyerese designed to protect them and screw you IMO.
So what oil will I use?
I will use 5w20 syn that is an approved ms-6395 oil and pay 2 bucks per quart.
And I'll pass on arguing about recommended for doesnt mean required.
and all the phony oil words like
recommended for, meets and exceeds,
I will just buy a product that says ms-6395 period.
Pretty clear to me. Basically, don't use a diesel only SAE 40 or API SA 10w30 in your 2015 Jeep.
Use an API SN 5w20 or 5w30 with the MS-6395 approval. 5w20 is most likely "recommended", but I guarantee they say 5w30 is allowed. The OM for the 2016 Wrangler does at least.
bah its all semanics.. but if they say your oil caused the issue.. spending 10000 on a lawyer is alot more expensive than just using the right oil.
Jeep says
Quote:
Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) — 3.2L Engine
MOPAR SAE 5W-20 engine oil or equivalent Pennzoil or
Shell Helix is recommended for all operating tempera-
tures.
but they ALSO SAY
Quote:
Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certi-
fication mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade num-
ber should not be used.
Quote:
You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recom-
mended oil quality requirements are met, and the recom-
mended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes
are followed.
Synthetic engine oils which do not have both the engine
oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade
number should not be used.
That is about as clear as mud.. what is an engine oil certification mark?
What is the recommended oil quality requirement?
they list NO required, just recommended. It basically boils down to
lawyerese designed to protect them and screw you IMO.
So what oil will I use?
I will use 5w20 syn that is an approved ms-6395 oil and pay 2 bucks per quart.
And I'll pass on arguing about recommended for doesnt mean required.
and all the phony oil words like
recommended for, meets and exceeds,
I will just buy a product that says ms-6395 period.
Pretty clear to me. Basically, don't use a diesel only SAE 40 or API SA 10w30 in your 2015 Jeep.
Use an API SN 5w20 or 5w30 with the MS-6395 approval. 5w20 is most likely "recommended", but I guarantee they say 5w30 is allowed. The OM for the 2016 Wrangler does at least.
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
The only A5/B5 oil still available in the US is PP (and if you can find it, PUP). Castrol said they were going to change their formula of Edge a bit to meet A5/B5 again.
QSUD used to claim A5-02 when they still used the clear bottles.
You can (and probably should) write to both Hyundai and QS and explain this to them, that QS is FF and recommended by Hyundai, but there are no QS-brand oils that even meet A5.
Sure enough the bottle of SM rated Quaker State Horsepower 5w30 that I have in my garage claims to be A5-02....it's hard to believe that the current SN rated QSUD 5w30 doesn't meet that spec....Could it be that it does but SOPUS doesn't want to pay a licensing fee?
The only A5/B5 oil still available in the US is PP (and if you can find it, PUP). Castrol said they were going to change their formula of Edge a bit to meet A5/B5 again.
QSUD used to claim A5-02 when they still used the clear bottles.
You can (and probably should) write to both Hyundai and QS and explain this to them, that QS is FF and recommended by Hyundai, but there are no QS-brand oils that even meet A5.
Sure enough the bottle of SM rated Quaker State Horsepower 5w30 that I have in my garage claims to be A5-02....it's hard to believe that the current SN rated QSUD 5w30 doesn't meet that spec....Could it be that it does but SOPUS doesn't want to pay a licensing fee?
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
The only A5/B5 oil still available in the US is PP (and if you can find it, PUP). Castrol said they were going to change their formula of Edge a bit to meet A5/B5 again.
... and Valvoline Synpower 5w30 is A5/B5
The only A5/B5 oil still available in the US is PP (and if you can find it, PUP). Castrol said they were going to change their formula of Edge a bit to meet A5/B5 again.
... and Valvoline Synpower 5w30 is A5/B5
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
The only A5/B5 oil still available in the US is PP (and if you can find it, PUP). Castrol said they were going to change their formula of Edge a bit to meet A5/B5 again.
QSUD used to claim A5-02 when they still used the clear bottles.
You can (and probably should) write to both Hyundai and QS and explain this to them, that QS is FF and recommended by Hyundai, but there are no QS-brand oils that even meet A5.
Sure enough the bottle of SM rated Quaker State Horsepower 5w30 that I have in my garage claims to be A5-02....it's hard to believe that the current SN rated QSUD 5w30 doesn't meet that spec....Could it be that it does but SOPUS doesn't want to pay a licensing fee?
My understanding is there is no licensing fee for ACEA, the oil companies self certify.
http://www.acea.be/industry-topics/tag/category/lubricants
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
The only A5/B5 oil still available in the US is PP (and if you can find it, PUP). Castrol said they were going to change their formula of Edge a bit to meet A5/B5 again.
QSUD used to claim A5-02 when they still used the clear bottles.
You can (and probably should) write to both Hyundai and QS and explain this to them, that QS is FF and recommended by Hyundai, but there are no QS-brand oils that even meet A5.
Sure enough the bottle of SM rated Quaker State Horsepower 5w30 that I have in my garage claims to be A5-02....it's hard to believe that the current SN rated QSUD 5w30 doesn't meet that spec....Could it be that it does but SOPUS doesn't want to pay a licensing fee?
My understanding is there is no licensing fee for ACEA, the oil companies self certify.
http://www.acea.be/industry-topics/tag/category/lubricants
This is Subaru's current owner's manual for all turbos:
Quote:
In choosing an oil, you want the proper quality and viscosity, as well as one that will enhance fuel economy. Oils of lower
viscosity provide better fuel economy. However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the
engine. The following table lists the recommended viscosities and applicable temperatures.
Quote:
5W-30 synthetic oil is the required oil for optimum engine performance and protection. Conventional oil may be used if synthetic oil is unavailable.
If 5W-30 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-40 conventional (
) oil may be used if replenishment is needed but should be changed to 5W-30 synthetic oil at the next oil change.
I have contacted Subaru of America several times about "5W-40 conventional" but haven't been able to get anywhere. Others have contacted them about the temperature chart showing 5W-40 but the language referring to 5W-40 for replenishment only but SoA generally responds with use 5W-30. Dealers and SoA typically do not have a comment on the language stating that thicker oil is required in high temps.
I used to put the blame for the confusion in Subaru's manuals on SoA, but was surprised to see that the German manuals now have the same language, albeit with the addition of allowing ACEA A3 oils. Of course, Subaru Japan allows 5W-40 in all turbo's, the H6, and the BRZ all which spec 0W20 and 5W30 in N. America.
I underlined and italicized "for optimum engine performance" above since I believe this a little different than just stating "5W-30 synthetic oil is the required engine oil" full stop.
Quote:
In choosing an oil, you want the proper quality and viscosity, as well as one that will enhance fuel economy. Oils of lower
viscosity provide better fuel economy. However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the
engine. The following table lists the recommended viscosities and applicable temperatures.
Quote:
5W-30 synthetic oil is the required oil for optimum engine performance and protection. Conventional oil may be used if synthetic oil is unavailable.
If 5W-30 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-40 conventional (
I have contacted Subaru of America several times about "5W-40 conventional" but haven't been able to get anywhere. Others have contacted them about the temperature chart showing 5W-40 but the language referring to 5W-40 for replenishment only but SoA generally responds with use 5W-30. Dealers and SoA typically do not have a comment on the language stating that thicker oil is required in high temps.
I used to put the blame for the confusion in Subaru's manuals on SoA, but was surprised to see that the German manuals now have the same language, albeit with the addition of allowing ACEA A3 oils. Of course, Subaru Japan allows 5W-40 in all turbo's, the H6, and the BRZ all which spec 0W20 and 5W30 in N. America.
I underlined and italicized "for optimum engine performance" above since I believe this a little different than just stating "5W-30 synthetic oil is the required engine oil" full stop.
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bluesubie, It appears Subaru is getting caught appeasing the EPA's CAFE agreements. That is, if Subaru uses the lower-viscosity oils to get their official fuel economy numbers, the EPA wants the car maker to push the consumer to use the lower-viscosity oils to match. Their manuals are worldwide, so they accidentally included wording from outside the U.S. in U.S. manuals.
But the warning about using a higher viscosity 40 oil is real, certainly if in a very hot climate and running hard. Most of the time any decent full-syn xw30 is known to be good enough. If driving hard, just use a 0w40 or 5w40 to handle the extra heat in those engines, as Subaru suggests.
But the warning about using a higher viscosity 40 oil is real, certainly if in a very hot climate and running hard. Most of the time any decent full-syn xw30 is known to be good enough. If driving hard, just use a 0w40 or 5w40 to handle the extra heat in those engines, as Subaru suggests.
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Perhaps you should not make inaccurate sweeping generalizations.
Sweeping generalizations are the stock in trade for many of the BMW "experts" on BITOG- particularly the ones who haven't even sat in one.
That said, I follow the OLM on my BMWs and Mini, which means every 10K for the M235i and annually for everything else...
Perhaps you should not make inaccurate sweeping generalizations.
Sweeping generalizations are the stock in trade for many of the BMW "experts" on BITOG- particularly the ones who haven't even sat in one.
That said, I follow the OLM on my BMWs and Mini, which means every 10K for the M235i and annually for everything else...
0w-40 is EU dealer fill. America has the CAFE standards and useing thin 0w-20 oils in cars spec for higher viscosity. Why on earth can not car manufactures in US recommend more viscosity grades? For exampel my old Lexus CT200h recommends 0w-20 but it says too if you drive much highway use a higher viscosity oil. My Honda Civic with R18 engine recomemnded viscosity is: 0w-30 5w30 10w30 0w40 5w40. Subaru sti have ringlands issues in US but havent heard anyting from EU yet. And btw never use a Acea a1 oil spec in a turbo car.
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
0w-40 is EU dealer fill. America has the CAFE standards and useing thin 0w-20 oils in cars spec for higher viscosity. Why on earth can not car manufactures in US recommend more viscosity grades? For exampel my old Lexus CT200h recommends 0w-20 but it says too if you drive much highway use a higher viscosity oil. My Honda Civic with R18 engine recomemnded viscosity is: 0w-30 5w30 10w30 0w40 5w40. Subaru sti have ringlands issues in US but havent heard anyting from EU yet. And btw never use a Acea a1 oil spec in a turbo car.
Here in the US, the percentage of drivers who put off on oil changes or forget about them is significant. Doing that with a 0w-20 oil leads to problems very quickly. The Subaru issue is a hit and miss one. Lots of posters here have had excellent service from their Subies but there is a population of owners who mod their vehicles thus changing the dynamics. Those two scenarios in my opinion contribute greatly to engine problems. I think in Europe people tend to take care of their cars much better. I myself do as well knowing I have spent a large chunk of money to have this car so why trash it with poor maintenance or using it beyond its capabilities?
0w-40 is EU dealer fill. America has the CAFE standards and useing thin 0w-20 oils in cars spec for higher viscosity. Why on earth can not car manufactures in US recommend more viscosity grades? For exampel my old Lexus CT200h recommends 0w-20 but it says too if you drive much highway use a higher viscosity oil. My Honda Civic with R18 engine recomemnded viscosity is: 0w-30 5w30 10w30 0w40 5w40. Subaru sti have ringlands issues in US but havent heard anyting from EU yet. And btw never use a Acea a1 oil spec in a turbo car.
Here in the US, the percentage of drivers who put off on oil changes or forget about them is significant. Doing that with a 0w-20 oil leads to problems very quickly. The Subaru issue is a hit and miss one. Lots of posters here have had excellent service from their Subies but there is a population of owners who mod their vehicles thus changing the dynamics. Those two scenarios in my opinion contribute greatly to engine problems. I think in Europe people tend to take care of their cars much better. I myself do as well knowing I have spent a large chunk of money to have this car so why trash it with poor maintenance or using it beyond its capabilities?
4WD
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For years we had charts in the Owners Manual so one could pick an oil based on the weather they operated in …
Not now …
Not now …
Originally Posted By: 4WD
For years we had charts in the Owners Manual so one could pick an oil based on the weather they operated in …
Not now …
True for the most part. But on the other hand, with modern oils it is much less necessary than it once was.
For years we had charts in the Owners Manual so one could pick an oil based on the weather they operated in …
Not now …
True for the most part. But on the other hand, with modern oils it is much less necessary than it once was.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 4WD
For years we had charts in the Owners Manual so one could pick an oil based on the weather they operated in …
Not now …
True for the most part. But on the other hand, with modern oils it is much less necessary than it once was.
The weather bar chart is still used. In Puerto Rico and other countries in the Toyota owners manuals.. It’s in the same owners manual for my 4runners.
What is different? The engine? The oils? Or the legal language to meet efficiency standards in a certain country?
Originally Posted By: 4WD
For years we had charts in the Owners Manual so one could pick an oil based on the weather they operated in …
Not now …
True for the most part. But on the other hand, with modern oils it is much less necessary than it once was.
The weather bar chart is still used. In Puerto Rico and other countries in the Toyota owners manuals.. It’s in the same owners manual for my 4runners.
What is different? The engine? The oils? Or the legal language to meet efficiency standards in a certain country?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
The weather bar chart is still used. In Puerto Rico and other countries in the Toyota owners manuals.. It’s in the same owners manual for my 4runners.
What is different? The engine? The oils? Or the legal language to meet efficiency standards in a certain country?
That wasn't my point and is irrelevant to what I meant. Whether you use 0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40 or even 5W-XX, it is not necessary to change oil grade due to weather. My old BMW uses 0W-40, why would I have to follow the extensive oil chart that is in the 1994 owner's manual?
The weather bar chart is still used. In Puerto Rico and other countries in the Toyota owners manuals.. It’s in the same owners manual for my 4runners.
What is different? The engine? The oils? Or the legal language to meet efficiency standards in a certain country?
That wasn't my point and is irrelevant to what I meant. Whether you use 0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40 or even 5W-XX, it is not necessary to change oil grade due to weather. My old BMW uses 0W-40, why would I have to follow the extensive oil chart that is in the 1994 owner's manual?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
The weather bar chart is still used. In Puerto Rico and other countries in the Toyota owners manuals.. It’s in the same owners manual for my 4runners.
What is different? The engine? The oils? Or the legal language to meet efficiency standards in a certain country?
That wasn't my point and is irrelevant to what I meant. Whether you use 0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40 or even 5W-XX, it is not necessary to change oil grade due to weather. My old BMW uses 0W-40, why would I have to follow the extensive oil chart that is in the 1994 owner's manual?
You don’t, BMW ll01is a very good spec oil that’s all you need. I prefer to change oil grades in certain vehicles due to seasonal demands.. for example in the wintrt my4runner get more civil and normal use while summer includes long mountain runs and off-road trails with potential shockloading.
The weather charts just illustrate how versatile some engines are to different world conditions and markets and that Any oil recommendation of a CAFE vehicle should be taken with a tablespoon of salt.
My bmw gets an annual fill of the best value ll01juice available In the USA. Castrol 0w40,poor thing is going to rot before I mile it out though,
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
The weather bar chart is still used. In Puerto Rico and other countries in the Toyota owners manuals.. It’s in the same owners manual for my 4runners.
What is different? The engine? The oils? Or the legal language to meet efficiency standards in a certain country?
That wasn't my point and is irrelevant to what I meant. Whether you use 0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40 or even 5W-XX, it is not necessary to change oil grade due to weather. My old BMW uses 0W-40, why would I have to follow the extensive oil chart that is in the 1994 owner's manual?
You don’t, BMW ll01is a very good spec oil that’s all you need. I prefer to change oil grades in certain vehicles due to seasonal demands.. for example in the wintrt my4runner get more civil and normal use while summer includes long mountain runs and off-road trails with potential shockloading.
The weather charts just illustrate how versatile some engines are to different world conditions and markets and that Any oil recommendation of a CAFE vehicle should be taken with a tablespoon of salt.
My bmw gets an annual fill of the best value ll01juice available In the USA. Castrol 0w40,poor thing is going to rot before I mile it out though,
I agree with you =)
Last edited:
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