Michelin tires wore out rapidly

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Take the 40% off and get another set.

Driving conditions play a huge role. Driving the highways out in Iowa are a lot different than driving back east where you are where there’s hills and curvy roads, that’s what wears out tires.
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Tread warranty =/= tread life.

What's the difference between $800 every 90l miles and $360 every 40k miles? To me it seems like you're still on top.


This. I know so many people who don't get the fact that the warranty is sorta an upper bound picked by the tire maker. If you wear the tires our sooner, you get a pro-rated discount on your new set, so you still come out ahead. In fact, you get new/fresh tires sooner at a lower price.

And frankly, I wouldn't *want* to drive around on a set of tires that would actually last 90k miles! They'd have all the traction of leather soled shoes on a wet tile floor. :p The ideal thing is a tire with a high warranty number, and a much faster wear-out rate for your driving style.



People will still continue to believe that a tire sold with a 100K warranty somehow means the tire should last that long.

I just don't get it.

I've been using the Pilot Super Sport and Pilot Sport 4S for years now. They have 30k mile treadwear warranties, and that's about how long they've lasted for me. Even with some very enthusiastic driving.
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Either way, I want to STRONGLY echo 440Magnum's second point. A tire that actually lasts 90k+ will have a compound that's as hard as a rock, and tread blocks like skyscrapers. No thanks. Tires should perform first, be pleasant second, and last... last.
 
I had Defenders that gave me about 50,000 miles on a Subie. Americas Tire pro rated the difference on a new set of Defender T+H. Even with properly maintained cars w/5,000 mile rotation and balance I have not had a tire with high mile rating come close to hitting the advertised mark. Kuhmo's had the largest difference
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Tires should perform first, be pleasant second, and last... last.


If that's the case, everyone should be putting on UHP or Max Performance Summer tires on their cars, and family haulers.

But, tire companies have different metrics for different customers. Some target customers want the tread life to be high on the list and "performance" last, as long as the handling isn't blatantly dangerous. That's what the Defenders are for.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Tires should perform first, be pleasant second, and last... last.


If that's the case, everyone should be putting on UHP or Max Performance Summer tires on their cars, and family haulers.

But, tire companies have different metrics for different customers. Some target customers want the tread life to be high on the list and "performance" last, as long as the handling isn't blatantly dangerous. That's what the Defenders are for.


A good set of performance tires will last 10-20k miles. The Defenders are not performance tires.
 
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Tires should perform first, be pleasant second, and last... last.


If that's the case, everyone should be putting on UHP or Max Performance Summer tires on their cars, and family haulers.

But, tire companies have different metrics for different customers. Some target customers want the tread life to be high on the list and "performance" last, as long as the handling isn't blatantly dangerous. That's what the Defenders are for.


A good set of performance tires will last 10-20k miles. The Defenders are not performance tires.

My Sport Comp2's are on track for 30k miles of mostly hwy with a couple dozen autocross days. Perhaps the all-season version would be a good compromise for people who want a grippy safe summer tire that's fairly quiet.
For me, I think I'm going to keep using high performance summer tires and winters on my cars, seems like a good way to be on the best tire for the conditions most of the time.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
My Sport Comp2's are on track for 30k miles of mostly hwy with a couple dozen autocross days. Perhaps the all-season version would be a good compromise for people who want a grippy safe summer tire that's fairly quiet.
For me, I think I'm going to keep using high performance summer tires and winters on my cars, seems like a good way to be on the best tire for the conditions most of the time.

I've gone back and forth between UHP Summer and UHP All-Season tires on my 530i, while still keeping dedicated winter tires for winter. I thought I'd get more treadlife out of the all-seasons, but I can't seem to get more than about 25K miles out of my tires, regardless if they're UHP Summers or UHP All-Seasons. Go figure.

My guess is if I drive aggressively with all-seasons, they end up getting beat up more than if I drove in the same fashion with summer tires.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
My Sport Comp2's are on track for 30k miles of mostly hwy with a couple dozen autocross days. Perhaps the all-season version would be a good compromise for people who want a grippy safe summer tire that's fairly quiet.
For me, I think I'm going to keep using high performance summer tires and winters on my cars, seems like a good way to be on the best tire for the conditions most of the time.

I've gone back and forth between UHP Summer and UHP All-Season tires on my 530i, while still keeping dedicated winter tires for winter. I thought I'd get more treadlife out of the all-seasons, but I can't seem to get more than about 25K miles out of my tires, regardless if they're UHP Summers or UHP All-Seasons. Go figure.

My guess is if I drive aggressively with all-seasons, they end up getting beat up more than if I drove in the same fashion with summer tires.



I get quite a bit more life from my summer Mich SS than my intermediate Mich A/S3. The A/S3 just don't have enough grip to keep the tires from spinning in first or second gear.
 
May be it's time for my lecture on tire wear:

THEE biggest factor in tire wear is how the tire is used - specifically, how many turns are made and how severely the cornering is.

Drive in a straight line and you'll get GREAT wear. Make lots of turns, poor wear. Corner in a .... ah ... let's call it spirited, and you'll wear the tires faster.

When I was conducting field test, I've had the same tire go over 100K and as little as 10K - and the difference was how the tire was used. The 100K tires were on between city delivery trucks and the 10K on a fleet of telephone installers driving on newly paved concrete.

So how do the tire manufacturers set the warranty? First, there are very few warranty claims for wear - and most of those can be handled by pointing out the uneven wear and lack of rotation.

Second, the government only requires that the warranty provide a method of handling the complaint, not achieving the result.

And even then, if the tire manufacturer can demonstrate that a tire can get the mileage, then they are off the hook - and that's easy to do for up to 150K miles.

Hope this helps folks understand what may be going on.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Tread warranty =/= tread life.

What's the difference between $800 every 90l miles and $360 every 40k miles? To me it seems like you're still on top.


This. I know so many people who don't get the fact that the warranty is sorta an upper bound picked by the tire maker. If you wear the tires our sooner, you get a pro-rated discount on your new set, so you still come out ahead. In fact, you get new/fresh tires sooner at a lower price.

And frankly, I wouldn't *want* to drive around on a set of tires that would actually last 90k miles! They'd have all the traction of leather soled shoes on a wet tile floor. :p The ideal thing is a tire with a high warranty number, and a much faster wear-out rate for your driving style.

This^^^^
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
So how do the tire manufacturers set the warranty? First, there are very few warranty claims for wear - and most of those can be handled by pointing out the uneven wear and lack of rotation.
Wonder what percentage of tires actually make a warranty claim? Usually people trade away or sell the vehicle, voiding the warranty right there, or if they do bother or remember how to make a claim, it gets shot down rather easily by Michelin here.

Still, long term customer satisfaction may suffer in these cases. Many people will say "Hey, I paid a lot of $$$ for these Defenders, and they only went 40k miles when they were 'supposed' to go 90k according to what I was told." Bad customer goodwill. Sure Michelin charges a lot for Defenders and more than makes up for a few warranty claims.
So is it worth it for Michelin to claim lofty 90k mile 'guarantees' and tick people off in the end, right when they are deciding on which tire to get next? Makes people buy Bridgestones for replacement!
 
The relatively poor wearing qualities of the last generation Defenders was/is a known issue that was referenced and mentioned everywhere from professional tire reviews to anecdotal ravings. If you believe the marketing, that was one of the biggest areas the Defender T & H has tried to address.

My guess is that "relative poor wear" in relation to a 90K mile warranty that people take at face value...and individual driving habits that are outside the intended performance parameters of this tire, will generate unhappy owners. My personal opinion is that with Michelin you'll get a much higher percentage of this misapplication because of Michelin's reputation generating Defenders being on vehicles they're probably not appropriate for...I've seen this more than a few times where instead of a more appropriate UHP tire you'll see Defenders.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Tires should perform first, be pleasant second, and last... last.


If that's the case, everyone should be putting on UHP or Max Performance Summer tires on their cars, and family haulers.


What would work good on a pickup? Assume pavement one day, wet grass the next.

28.gif
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Tires should perform first, be pleasant second, and last... last.


If that's the case, everyone should be putting on UHP or Max Performance Summer tires on their cars, and family haulers.

Exactly.
thumbsup2.gif



Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
But, tire companies have different metrics for different customers. Some target customers want the tread life to be high on the list and "performance" last, as long as the handling isn't blatantly dangerous. That's what the Defenders are for.

I feel like the existence of a product or market says little about whether it's the best choice.
 
On a (marginally) more serious note...

The point is that prioritizing longevity above all else leaves you with a tire that's terrible at doing what a tire is supposed to do. It's like deciding what food to eat based on its shelf life. Of course you can get by on it, but...
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Tires should perform first, be pleasant second, and last... last.


If that's the case, everyone should be putting on UHP or Max Performance Summer tires on their cars, and family haulers.


What would work good on a pickup? Assume pavement one day, wet grass the next.

28.gif


Continental CrossContact LX20 EcoPlus is a truck tire with good on road performance and you've got 4wd for the grass. Or the Continental TerrainContact A/T rates the same for on road traction, but will do better in the grass.
I would be tempted to try the TerrainContact's year round actually if they made CRV sizes.
 
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