M1 effectiveness ...
- Thread starter BrocLuno
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
So my original question was not "troll'ish". It was to look at ROI for a well respected oil, no matter what some members here think ... Since my goals are 300K from everything in the driveway, I was looking for a leg up maybe if some of the vehicles like M1.
I have tried it in the past. But each vehicle was noisier on M1, and that is not something I dismiss out of hand. Noise means impact to me. Maybe less oil cushion ... Whatever ...
I'm trying to figure out if there is any actual real life benefit to $30/gal oil vs $20/gal oil in the long run ... Figure annual or biennial changes not to exceed 10K. Decent filters changed just a week or two after the sump.
M1 is quite less than $20 a gallon so you're good to go there.
And if you're upset about M1 making noise ("that is not something I dismiss out of hand", "Noise means impact to me. Maybe less oil cushion ... Whatever ..."), then why are you asking about it again? One would think it would have been off your list long ago. Surely you out of anyone would not think that there's something magical about M1 and longevity, at least not compared to any other name-brand synthetic. There's zero real evidence of that being the case, right?
So my original question was not "troll'ish". It was to look at ROI for a well respected oil, no matter what some members here think ... Since my goals are 300K from everything in the driveway, I was looking for a leg up maybe if some of the vehicles like M1.
I have tried it in the past. But each vehicle was noisier on M1, and that is not something I dismiss out of hand. Noise means impact to me. Maybe less oil cushion ... Whatever ...
I'm trying to figure out if there is any actual real life benefit to $30/gal oil vs $20/gal oil in the long run ... Figure annual or biennial changes not to exceed 10K. Decent filters changed just a week or two after the sump.
M1 is quite less than $20 a gallon so you're good to go there.
And if you're upset about M1 making noise ("that is not something I dismiss out of hand", "Noise means impact to me. Maybe less oil cushion ... Whatever ..."), then why are you asking about it again? One would think it would have been off your list long ago. Surely you out of anyone would not think that there's something magical about M1 and longevity, at least not compared to any other name-brand synthetic. There's zero real evidence of that being the case, right?
"I have a new to me nice used F-150 5.8 push-rod flat tappet port injected V8 that I'll need to get about 220,000 more miles out of if possible. I know I can get there on old Delo 400, but they are changing that all around ... And I suspect all oils will be changing as I work through the miles ..."
I think you should have led with this question. Push rod engine's typically needs an oil with lots of ZDDP. All of Mobil 1 high mileage oils are loaded with it. 10W-30 would work fine in California year long and have a good HTHS.
I think you should have led with this question. Push rod engine's typically needs an oil with lots of ZDDP. All of Mobil 1 high mileage oils are loaded with it. 10W-30 would work fine in California year long and have a good HTHS.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Get QSUD then - or stay with HDEO's since they are not warranty vehicles anyway
But for the noise thing with same Ford engine - actual Db meter so far (1 being best)
1. M1 FM 5w40
2. M1 EP 5w30
3. PUP 5w30
I have some QSUD in the stash - will put it in Ford at some point and see ...
Oh, Same thing on my GM - PUP louder (not by much) - but will go back to PP anyway - and only thing quieter than the 2 syns above is Delvac 1300 - but also a 40 ...
But for the noise thing with same Ford engine - actual Db meter so far (1 being best)
1. M1 FM 5w40
2. M1 EP 5w30
3. PUP 5w30
I have some QSUD in the stash - will put it in Ford at some point and see ...
Oh, Same thing on my GM - PUP louder (not by much) - but will go back to PP anyway - and only thing quieter than the 2 syns above is Delvac 1300 - but also a 40 ...
Not any more effective than any other oil changed at reasonable intervals. It's all a matter of personal preference these days! I prefer to use SOPUS products, but, doesn't mean my engines wouldn't get the same longevity out of XOM, BP, or ConocoPhillips products used in the same conditions.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
.... And its not even synthetic!
So says the poster that has wrecked nearly every reciprocating engine in his sphere of influence, and has chronicled the numerous failures in minute detail here on BITOG in multiple posts.
Hey, have you ever thought you might have better luck with "non synthetic" Mobil 1 than sticking with your base stock obsession? I mean, you clearly haven't had a lot of luck with all those "true" synthetics, right? Why not give the fake synthetic Mobil 1 a try?
Like I have never run M1 with over 70 cars in 45 years of driving; I've used it when it WAS synthetic
Wife wont let me run it in her Subarus due to Evil EXxon and their spillages - I have to sneek it in.
What I've learned - ON MY OWN - with no help from anyone here is: #1) VVT and wet timing systems(on OHC) are mostly junk will likely stick, jam or otherwise fall apart and cause engine problems leading to failure.
#2) Oil filter quality, capacity and fitness is MORE important than the oil brand.
I will continue to ding BIG oil for bamboozling out the average the Joe by calling Premium oil "Synthetic" Jeepers even the ILASC lubricant committee has a foot note stating that "Full Synthetic" is a marketing term.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
.... And its not even synthetic!
So says the poster that has wrecked nearly every reciprocating engine in his sphere of influence, and has chronicled the numerous failures in minute detail here on BITOG in multiple posts.
Hey, have you ever thought you might have better luck with "non synthetic" Mobil 1 than sticking with your base stock obsession? I mean, you clearly haven't had a lot of luck with all those "true" synthetics, right? Why not give the fake synthetic Mobil 1 a try?
Like I have never run M1 with over 70 cars in 45 years of driving; I've used it when it WAS synthetic
What I've learned - ON MY OWN - with no help from anyone here is: #1) VVT and wet timing systems(on OHC) are mostly junk will likely stick, jam or otherwise fall apart and cause engine problems leading to failure.
#2) Oil filter quality, capacity and fitness is MORE important than the oil brand.
I will continue to ding BIG oil for bamboozling out the average the Joe by calling Premium oil "Synthetic" Jeepers even the ILASC lubricant committee has a foot note stating that "Full Synthetic" is a marketing term.
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I have been using M1 5W30s in my FXT because I felt their moderate calcium levels were good choices for my DIT engine. Once dexos 1 Gen 2 oils that have been LSPI tested are common on the shelves at WalMart, I will feel more comfortable with using other brands.
I do wonder if Mobil has a different approach to oil shearing vs. thickening by oxidation over time than other big brands, they generated a chart for one of their AP products that showed it shearing down faster than competitive products but then thickening out of grade much later than them. M1 does seem to have a habit of shearing down faster than at least some competitors based upon UOAs posted here, but maybe their focus is more on not thickening up later with its potentially disastrous consequences?
I do wonder if Mobil has a different approach to oil shearing vs. thickening by oxidation over time than other big brands, they generated a chart for one of their AP products that showed it shearing down faster than competitive products but then thickening out of grade much later than them. M1 does seem to have a habit of shearing down faster than at least some competitors based upon UOAs posted here, but maybe their focus is more on not thickening up later with its potentially disastrous consequences?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
And if you're upset about M1 making noise ("that is not something I dismiss out of hand", "Noise means impact to me. Maybe less oil cushion ... Whatever ..."), then why are you asking about it again? One would think it would have been off your list long ago. Surely you out of anyone would not think that there's something magical about M1 and longevity, at least not compared to any other name-brand synthetic. There's zero real evidence of that being the case, right?
And there is my dilemma. If there is real evidence, I want to know about it - hence this thread ...
I will try M1 in this truck because it's still tight enough that it maybe start and run cold quietly. If it does, it'll be the first in many years, but I will not off-hand rule out M1 for this motor ...
My bias toward cold start noise is mine ... And lots of other folks have commented that they don't care, and their vehicles seem to live on with M1 in the sump and a bit of noise. So I'm trying to be open minded and see if there might be a useful edge here to helping me reach my goals - long motor life.
I never use what I consider trash oil. I let motors "talk" to me and I do what seems prudent. I have never said that M1 was bad oil, or folks should not use it. I have always said that it works well for some. And since I always experiment when looking for an oil to keep a particular motor happy (and me), I'll likely include one round of M1 in the hunt ...
I'm just asking the larger audience for evidence?
Virtus Probi - those same sorts of question rattle around in my brain too
And if you're upset about M1 making noise ("that is not something I dismiss out of hand", "Noise means impact to me. Maybe less oil cushion ... Whatever ..."), then why are you asking about it again? One would think it would have been off your list long ago. Surely you out of anyone would not think that there's something magical about M1 and longevity, at least not compared to any other name-brand synthetic. There's zero real evidence of that being the case, right?
And there is my dilemma. If there is real evidence, I want to know about it - hence this thread ...
I will try M1 in this truck because it's still tight enough that it maybe start and run cold quietly. If it does, it'll be the first in many years, but I will not off-hand rule out M1 for this motor ...
My bias toward cold start noise is mine ... And lots of other folks have commented that they don't care, and their vehicles seem to live on with M1 in the sump and a bit of noise. So I'm trying to be open minded and see if there might be a useful edge here to helping me reach my goals - long motor life.
I never use what I consider trash oil. I let motors "talk" to me and I do what seems prudent. I have never said that M1 was bad oil, or folks should not use it. I have always said that it works well for some. And since I always experiment when looking for an oil to keep a particular motor happy (and me), I'll likely include one round of M1 in the hunt ...
I'm just asking the larger audience for evidence?
Virtus Probi - those same sorts of question rattle around in my brain too
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
And there is my dilemma. If there is real evidence, I want to know about it - hence this thread ...
My bias toward cold start noise is mine ... And lots of other folks have commented that they don't care, and their vehicles seem to live on with M1 in the sump and a bit of noise. So I'm trying to be open minded and see if there might be a useful edge here to helping me reach my goals - long motor life.
Well like I pointed out already you aren't going to get any real evidence here, only opinion, anecdote and unsubstantiated testimonials. No one on this board tears down engines (and runs against a control) just to see how a particular oil "did" in their engine.
And as far as people living on with a bit of noise, I don't know why they would. I have never noticed "more noise" from M1 in any car, ever, when I have on occasion used some other brand (most recently in my old BMW). But if I did I wouldn't continue using it, especially if some other comparable brand did not cause the noise. Why would you?
And there is my dilemma. If there is real evidence, I want to know about it - hence this thread ...
My bias toward cold start noise is mine ... And lots of other folks have commented that they don't care, and their vehicles seem to live on with M1 in the sump and a bit of noise. So I'm trying to be open minded and see if there might be a useful edge here to helping me reach my goals - long motor life.
Well like I pointed out already you aren't going to get any real evidence here, only opinion, anecdote and unsubstantiated testimonials. No one on this board tears down engines (and runs against a control) just to see how a particular oil "did" in their engine.
And as far as people living on with a bit of noise, I don't know why they would. I have never noticed "more noise" from M1 in any car, ever, when I have on occasion used some other brand (most recently in my old BMW). But if I did I wouldn't continue using it, especially if some other comparable brand did not cause the noise. Why would you?
Per Virtus_Probi : "I have been using M1 5W30s in my FXT because I felt their moderate calcium levels were good choices for my DIT engine. Once dexos 1 Gen 2 oils that have been LSPI tested are common on the shelves at WalMart, I will feel more comfortable with using other brands". * Not knowing how much Hyundai has worked out DI / DIT issues (i.e. intake valve deposits) with their newer engines , I am running M1 10W30 (allowed by Hyundai) due to low NOACK , low calcium (anti - pinging) and better guard against shearing than the 20W called for on the oil cap . That plus 5K OCI's max on the Sonata DI engine and I better see 200K + miles on the engine before a mechanic starts talking : "It's time for a intake valve walnut blast" !
Originally Posted By: wally6934
"I have a new to me nice used F-150 5.8 push-rod flat tappet port injected V8 that I'll need to get about 220,000 more miles out of if possible. I know I can get there on old Delo 400, but they are changing that all around ... And I suspect all oils will be changing as I work through the miles ..."
I think you should have led with this question. Push rod engine's typically needs an oil with lots of ZDDP. All of Mobil 1 high mileage oils are loaded with it. 10W-30 would work fine in California year long and have a good HTHS.
I've never played with M1 HM, but it might be a good starting place for this engine. It's only 82K old, but it is 24 years old for seals and gaskets. Plastics and polymers can age just from time and ozone exposure. So M1 HM might be a good experiment
"I have a new to me nice used F-150 5.8 push-rod flat tappet port injected V8 that I'll need to get about 220,000 more miles out of if possible. I know I can get there on old Delo 400, but they are changing that all around ... And I suspect all oils will be changing as I work through the miles ..."
I think you should have led with this question. Push rod engine's typically needs an oil with lots of ZDDP. All of Mobil 1 high mileage oils are loaded with it. 10W-30 would work fine in California year long and have a good HTHS.
I've never played with M1 HM, but it might be a good starting place for this engine. It's only 82K old, but it is 24 years old for seals and gaskets. Plastics and polymers can age just from time and ozone exposure. So M1 HM might be a good experiment
The M1 HM oils have the SN limit of zinc. 800ppm I believe. 10w-40 may be allowed more but I personally would take a HDEO over a 10-40 PCMO. I like to minimize VII
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I'm just asking the larger audience for evidence?
Yep, I think you'll just get a lot of anecdotes. Mine is that I can never tell the difference by sound, unless someone puts something totally absurd in there, the oil has a litre of gas diluting it, or someone let the engine go down to 2 quarts or something similarly foolish.
Others claim they can here differences, and I have no reason to doubt them. I'm sure some people fall victim to the placebo effect or their imaginations, but some people pay close attention to these things.
I'm just asking the larger audience for evidence?
Yep, I think you'll just get a lot of anecdotes. Mine is that I can never tell the difference by sound, unless someone puts something totally absurd in there, the oil has a litre of gas diluting it, or someone let the engine go down to 2 quarts or something similarly foolish.
Others claim they can here differences, and I have no reason to doubt them. I'm sure some people fall victim to the placebo effect or their imaginations, but some people pay close attention to these things.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
.... And its not even synthetic!
So says the poster that has wrecked nearly every reciprocating engine in his sphere of influence, and has chronicled the numerous failures in minute detail here on BITOG in multiple posts.
Hey, have you ever thought you might have better luck with "non synthetic" Mobil 1 than sticking with your base stock obsession? I mean, you clearly haven't had a lot of luck with all those "true" synthetics, right? Why not give the fake synthetic Mobil 1 a try?
Like I have never run M1 with over 70 cars in 45 years of driving; I've used it when it WAS synthetic
Wife wont let me run it in her Subarus due to Evil EXxon and their spillages - I have to sneek it in.
What I've learned - ON MY OWN - with no help from anyone here is: #1) VVT and wet timing systems(on OHC) are mostly junk will likely stick, jam or otherwise fall apart and cause engine problems leading to failure.
#2) Oil filter quality, capacity and fitness is MORE important than the oil brand.
I will continue to ding BIG oil for bamboozling out the average the Joe by calling Premium oil "Synthetic" Jeepers even the ILASC lubricant committee has a foot note stating that "Full Synthetic" is a marketing term.
Pretty sure all major oil companies have had a big spill at some point throughout history. BP was responsible for the big spill in the Gulf a few years back that was even more substantial than Exxon's Valdez incident. We're human, accidents happen, it's life! Haha
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
.... And its not even synthetic!
So says the poster that has wrecked nearly every reciprocating engine in his sphere of influence, and has chronicled the numerous failures in minute detail here on BITOG in multiple posts.
Hey, have you ever thought you might have better luck with "non synthetic" Mobil 1 than sticking with your base stock obsession? I mean, you clearly haven't had a lot of luck with all those "true" synthetics, right? Why not give the fake synthetic Mobil 1 a try?
Like I have never run M1 with over 70 cars in 45 years of driving; I've used it when it WAS synthetic
What I've learned - ON MY OWN - with no help from anyone here is: #1) VVT and wet timing systems(on OHC) are mostly junk will likely stick, jam or otherwise fall apart and cause engine problems leading to failure.
#2) Oil filter quality, capacity and fitness is MORE important than the oil brand.
I will continue to ding BIG oil for bamboozling out the average the Joe by calling Premium oil "Synthetic" Jeepers even the ILASC lubricant committee has a foot note stating that "Full Synthetic" is a marketing term.
Pretty sure all major oil companies have had a big spill at some point throughout history. BP was responsible for the big spill in the Gulf a few years back that was even more substantial than Exxon's Valdez incident. We're human, accidents happen, it's life! Haha
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Per Virtus_Probi : "I have been using M1 5W30s in my FXT because I felt their moderate calcium levels were good choices for my DIT engine. Once dexos 1 Gen 2 oils that have been LSPI tested are common on the shelves at WalMart, I will feel more comfortable with using other brands". * Not knowing how much Hyundai has worked out DI / DIT issues (i.e. intake valve deposits) with their newer engines , I am running M1 10W30 (allowed by Hyundai) due to low NOACK , low calcium (anti - pinging) and better guard against shearing than the 20W called for on the oil cap . That plus 5K OCI's max on the Sonata DI engine and I better see 200K + miles on the engine before a mechanic starts talking : "It's time for a intake valve walnut blast" !
My last two runs have been with (mostly) M1 5W30 ESP, which is low SAPS (0.6%), low calcium, and high HTHS (3.58). It also has a low starting TBN due to having little to no magnesium-based detergent (unlike M1 5W30), so long OCIs are probably not a good idea. I also ran Subaru Carbon Cleaner through a vacuum line at the last oil change to (hopefully) help with intake valve deposits and have some Top Engine Cleaner ready to go for the future.
M1 5W30 ESP is a bit pricey, so I'm not sure I'm going to stick with it...I also prefer to use something with a lower CCS viscosity for the winter. I will probably pick something on the dexos1 Gen 2 list when those oils start showing up at WalMart (and M1 5W30 AP seems to have a Gen 2 license code despite not having the symbol for it on the front).
Per Virtus_Probi : "I have been using M1 5W30s in my FXT because I felt their moderate calcium levels were good choices for my DIT engine. Once dexos 1 Gen 2 oils that have been LSPI tested are common on the shelves at WalMart, I will feel more comfortable with using other brands". * Not knowing how much Hyundai has worked out DI / DIT issues (i.e. intake valve deposits) with their newer engines , I am running M1 10W30 (allowed by Hyundai) due to low NOACK , low calcium (anti - pinging) and better guard against shearing than the 20W called for on the oil cap . That plus 5K OCI's max on the Sonata DI engine and I better see 200K + miles on the engine before a mechanic starts talking : "It's time for a intake valve walnut blast" !
My last two runs have been with (mostly) M1 5W30 ESP, which is low SAPS (0.6%), low calcium, and high HTHS (3.58). It also has a low starting TBN due to having little to no magnesium-based detergent (unlike M1 5W30), so long OCIs are probably not a good idea. I also ran Subaru Carbon Cleaner through a vacuum line at the last oil change to (hopefully) help with intake valve deposits and have some Top Engine Cleaner ready to go for the future.
M1 5W30 ESP is a bit pricey, so I'm not sure I'm going to stick with it...I also prefer to use something with a lower CCS viscosity for the winter. I will probably pick something on the dexos1 Gen 2 list when those oils start showing up at WalMart (and M1 5W30 AP seems to have a Gen 2 license code despite not having the symbol for it on the front).
Originally Posted By: jongies3
Pretty sure all major oil companies have had a big spill at some point throughout history. BP was responsible for the big spill in the Gulf a few years back that was even more substantial than Exxon's Valdez incident. We're human, accidents happen, it's life! Haha
Now we have fracking earthquakes! And Who knows about all the on-land spillages and dirty waste water dumping, and toxic gas releases. But again that's the Bohemian Wifey. I'm not brand loyal or team loyal - only "perceived" performance loyal
Pretty sure all major oil companies have had a big spill at some point throughout history. BP was responsible for the big spill in the Gulf a few years back that was even more substantial than Exxon's Valdez incident. We're human, accidents happen, it's life! Haha
Now we have fracking earthquakes! And Who knows about all the on-land spillages and dirty waste water dumping, and toxic gas releases. But again that's the Bohemian Wifey. I'm not brand loyal or team loyal - only "perceived" performance loyal
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