Legal Question: Do "Rights cards" actually "work"?

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted By: Garak

Officer safety


How about "safety" instead? I don't know who "officer safety" is, is he a special kind of officer in charge of safety? Can I get some safety too?

 

[Garak]

As much as certain people want to paint things otherwise, it is about everyone's safety. A police officer is hardly pulling someone over with the intention of keeping himself safe while causing maximum damage to the person he's pulling over. It is about public safety. An officer who gets killed in the line of duty is no longer able to do a darned thing to protect a citizen.

I would suggest a ride along would be an eye opening experience to just about everyone in society.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Cops don't know the laws, so if you do have a state stature, you can "inform" the cop right there, and then he has the duty to follow said stature or he is not acting in "good faith" and you got them in court.


Now that is classic right there. Saying Law Enforcement "don't know the laws" and you can't even can't spell Statute... twice.

 

[LoneRanger]

Meanwhile an NYPD officer was executed on the street, blind side ambushed by a coward, just because she wore the uniform.

 

[dnewton3]

As a LEO I've actually never been handed one of those cards in 22 years. I have had people verbally tell me (what they believe to be) their rights. At times they are correct; most often they have a very distorted and incorrect version of "rights".

I'm well trained and well educated. I faithfully, completely and firmly embrace the Constitutions (US and State) and OUR rights (yours and mine). I will NEVER violate your rights purposefully for two reasons:
1) it's against my oath; one that I take seriously because of this great nation we live in. I'm ol' Skool; it matters to me. Handshakes means something, verbal promises, etc ...
2) it's not prudent and would only compromise my investigation results, should you be arrested. I want you behind bars if that's where you belong, and I'm not going to jeopardize that.

Those in mind, I see the card as a distraction that I don't need to be spending time on. Every State court and even SCOTUS has ruled effectively on the legalities of stops, and all the various nuances therein. What LEOs can and cannot do, as well as what you have a right to, and not, are fairly well defined. Some little card isn't going to change my approach at the time one iota.


On a side note:
I'd agree there are some really bad examples of cops. Some of them are just bullies with a 'tude. But they are the minority, and most departments try to weed them out as best they can.
Not unlike some bosses at work; some are great and some just are hades-bent to make life miserable.
Not unlike Joe Public; some have manners, act decently and obey the laws. Others don't.
The community of LEOs is just a microcosm of society in general; there will be a few bad apples, but most of them want to do, and will accomplish, that which Civility demands.

 

[Alfred_B]

@Astro14, have you not heard the case of Philando Castille? All your argument is based on the stories the police spread which turn out to be false after the killer cop(s) get away with it.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
@Astro14, have you not heard the case of Philando Castille? All your argument is based on the stories the police spread which turn out to be false after the killer cop(s) get away with it.


I have heard of that case.

Thank you for eloquently demonstrating precisely what I am saying: it's ONE case, from billions of interactions.

I've no doubt that psychopaths and criminals exist in police ranks. They exist in every profession, every walk of life. Here's a case of a cardiologist who is also a murderer: https://patch.com/new-york/portwashingto...al-cardiologist

However, this doesn't prove that cardiologists are evil murderers.

And you've not shown that police are inherently evil, either. Yes, evil exists, but when you look at the frequency with which the crime by police happens, actual, provable crime, not false accusation, then your supposition simply isn't borne out. You've subscribed to anecdotal evidence that fits your preconceptions.

Remember, the accusation is a headline. The retraction is on page 23, buried among "corrections". If you only read the headlines, and never followed up, I can see how you would be swayed.

But that's where critical thinking comes in. Look at the numbers. 1.1 million cops. Dozens of public interactions every day. Your case, while tragic, does not make for compelling support of your contention.

 

[Mr Nice]

TurtleVette,

Watch this video of woman getting 5 tickets cause she told cop he was blocking traffic in a school zone.


http://wsvn.com/news/help-me-howard/five-tickets-retaliation-by-police-officer/

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
@Astro14, have you not heard the case of Philando Castille? All your argument is based on the stories the police spread which turn out to be false after the killer cop(s) get away with it.


Ever hear of due process? (Check your bill of rights; V and VI)

The officer was charged, tried and acquitted by a jury. Not a jury made up entirely of Police Officers; rather a jury of common folks selected from the community. Both the prosecution and defense have to AGREE on the jury pool. So now you want to second guess the entire process?

The cop didn't "get away" with anything. He was charged, tried and acquitted.



Multiple Grand Jury decisions often follow notable newsworthy cases. Remember the infamous Garner case in New York City? Grand Jury declined to indict. Brown case in Ferguson? Grand Jury declined to indict. In fact, in both of those, not only were the officers criminally cleared, but also cleared in civil rights violations by the FBI.


Do bad things happen to good people? Yes - it's sad.
But please do NOT ignore facts and relevant information.
The reason we have a dispassionate system is so that emotions don't get in the way.

There are many, many more example of the system working, versus the system failing. The system will occasionally let us down as a People, but it succeeds FAR more often than it fails. We should strive for it to be perfect, but realize it will never likely be so. We should never give up hope, but be willing to accept the results as handed down.

If you don't like the system, you have three options:
1) suffer under it
2) work to change it
3) leave from it's purview


But PLEASE, PLEASE don't twist facts and ignore reliable information. That does not help the "system" get better.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
@Astro14, have you not heard the case of Philando Castille? All your argument is based on the stories the police spread which turn out to be false after the killer cop(s) get away with it.


The officer in that incident was fully acquitted of all criminal charges by a jury that was properly vetted by the defense during the voir dire process. What's your point? There was no spreading of stories by police. There was both dash cam video as well as the cell phone footage from inside the car. Perhaps you would have preferred a lynch mob instead of due process ending in a trial?

Social justice outrage and media sensationalism do not, fortunately, equal a court of law.

 

[Vikas]

Looks like moderators are still on July 4th vacation!

 

[SatinSilver]

You must like them a lot since you comment on them regularly.

 

[PeterPolyol]

I think dnewton3 has a nice approach. He knows the power he's bestowed with, and he respects that power. Wow, if I could say that about some of the para-military I've encountered. Let's face it though, policing has changed dramatically, whether we want to accept it or not. All too often we're not dealing with 'Mayberry' style policing of olde, but instead belligerent and aggressive para-military types. (For insight on why these changes are happening, just investigate the "off-shore" training programmes that policemen and women are required to attend. Yes, I said "off-shore") Sometimes I feel like I'm in a war zone by just the presence of some of these tactical forces. Responses are becoming much more extreme. Punk pranksters like SWATers know this well, and exploit it, costing tax-payers MILLIONS of dollars as well as tying up manpower for no good reason.... SWATers know what how little it takes to get an extreme response.


I must say that I appreciate when good cops like some ITT don't try and deny there is a change in morale or a few bushels of bad apples out there. It shows that there really is a marked difference between the good honourable, dutiful police and the pride-driven, hubristic amphetamine heads.
IMO there should be internal programs that REWARD good public - law enforcement relationships, (and maybe less emphasis on "producing" charges) then perhaps maybe a few of the bad ones can use the example of the good officers honoured with such recognition as an example of what to strive for. Maybe there are similar programs in place already?

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Astro14

But that's where critical thinking comes in.

That is not gonna' occur with this individual...he is incapable of it.