Legal Question: Do "Rights cards" actually "work"?

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Those cards are for idiots. As I police officer, I was handed similar cards on occasion. I would say on average I ticketed about 10% of the cars I stopped, but everyone that hands me a card like that gets SEVERAL citations and a full complimentary vehicle inspection to include checking the tint with a tint meter, the tire tread left on the tires, and all the running and brake lights. Also a call to the insurance company to verify that the coverage is still in effect, because 90% of the folks that hand out these cards honestly dont have a valid insurance policy either.

Basically, they are a full proof way to draw unwanted attention to yourself. Traffic stops are simple. Be polite, smile, "How are you doing officer", have a nice day, and definitely dont argue on the side of the road, etc.

As to the card and the "right to a lawyer without delay", that is a nice fantasy, but not in practice. In almost every jurisdiction in America, you can call a lawyer once you are processed into jail, but dont expect a phone call in the early stages of an investigation, or while handcuffed, or while in the back of a cop car, or while in the initial jail holding cell, or in the early stages of jail booking. Once all the administrative functions are completed, you can usually call a lawyer. Basically if you are in the free to go arena (am I being detained), you can call a lawyer.


And law enforcement wonders why its reputation is a little tarnished these days?

 

[Al]

Pulling out that card shows the officer you have an IQ of less than 70. Treating an officer with respect will go a way longer way than that card. Been there done that. In my interactions with an officer over traffic issues...on those occasions the officer cut me a break 4 out of 4 times.

 

[DB_Cooper]

This is a dash-cam of my brother in Georgia during a routine traffic stop. Extreme results but the point is don't screw around, play by the rules. This event is a scenario that most LEOs have in the back of their minds when they pull you over. Not a good time to whip out your "rights" card and play roadside lawyer


Routine traffic stop

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Cops don't know the laws, so if you do have a state stature, you can "inform" the cop right there, and then he has the duty to follow said stature or he is not acting in "good faith" and you got them in court.

Thats an ignorant statement.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Those cards are for idiots. As I police officer, I was handed similar cards on occasion. I would say on average I ticketed about 10% of the cars I stopped, but everyone that hands me a card like that gets SEVERAL citations and a full complimentary vehicle inspection to include checking the tint with a tint meter, the tire tread left on the tires, and all the running and brake lights. Also a call to the insurance company to verify that the coverage is still in effect, because 90% of the folks that hand out these cards honestly dont have a valid insurance policy either.

Basically, they are a full proof way to draw unwanted attention to yourself. Traffic stops are simple. Be polite, smile, "How are you doing officer", have a nice day, and definitely dont argue on the side of the road, etc.

As to the card and the "right to a lawyer without delay", that is a nice fantasy, but not in practice. In almost every jurisdiction in America, you can call a lawyer once you are processed into jail, but dont expect a phone call in the early stages of an investigation, or while handcuffed, or while in the back of a cop car, or while in the initial jail holding cell, or in the early stages of jail booking. Once all the administrative functions are completed, you can usually call a lawyer. Basically if you are in the free to go arena (am I being detained), you can call a lawyer.


And law enforcement wonders why its reputation is a little tarnished these days?


Best reply so far. (And before this gets locked)
Once the gun is strapped on, the badge is in place and the hat is worn, there is an instant Jekyll and Hyde transformation.
Not gonna post it for language content, but do a Google/YouTube search for "Daniel Harless, Ohio police officer" as a good example.

 

[NJ_Car_Owner]

I 110% agree with treat police officers with respect - especially with all the crazy people out there. I always put my hands on top of the steering wheel and ask if it is OK to go int the glove box to give the officer the knowledge that I'm reaching for something in there.

I got caught going over 20 miles over the speed limit on a road that everyone does it (25 MPH speed limit - no schools around). The officer approached the car, my hands were on top of the steering wheel where he can see them, he asked my for my info and he kind of chuckled when I asked permission to go into the glove box. I gave him the info, didn't give him a bunch of garbage and he knocked the speeding ticket down to 19 MPH over the limit to spare me the excess charges that come with higher speeds.

I once cut off a NJ State Trooper and it was clearly my fault, didn't yield enough to let traffic go through. I realized the mistake as it was happening, looked in my rear view mirror for his lights to come on, and pulled over as soon as his lights did come on. Kept my hands on the wheel where he could see them, opened the window and he told me what I did wrong. I apologized and told him it was a mistake on my part, he took my license and registration, told me how dangerous the intersection is, I explained that I didn't come that way often and I clearly made a mistake. I believe he went to his car but came back asked how many points I had on my license which was none (still is) and he let me off with a warning, in which I thanked him.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Danh
And law enforcement wonders why its reputation is a little tarnished these days?


Fake news media that instead of telling facts and the truth, interjects a narrative of distrust and hate, while adjusting the "facts" to fit their narrative? Or even adjusting the "shade" of pictures to make a person look like a different race?

 

[Leo99]

One should always treat the police with respect.

The police should also treat the populace with respect. Knowing and exercising one's rights should not be a reason to "toss" a car.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Danh
And law enforcement wonders why its reputation is a little tarnished these days?


Fake news media that instead of telling facts and the truth, interjects a narrative of distrust and hate, while adjusting the "facts" to fit their narrative? Or even adjusting the "shade" of pictures to make a person look like a different race?


That could be part of it. But abuse of authority, even within the law, surely doesn't help. You think the special treatment you gave will help the recipients think law enforcement is on their side?

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Originally Posted By: DB_Cooper
This is a dash-cam of my brother in Georgia during a routine traffic stop. Extreme results but the point is don't screw around, play by the rules. This event is a scenario that most LEOs have in the back of their minds when they pull you over. Not a good time to whip out your "rights" card and play roadside lawyer


Routine traffic stop



I was initially thinking this was a civilian dash cam video about a traffic stop. About the time the driver answered "plenty" in response to the drinking question, I figured it out.


I am very glad your brother is ok.

 

[JeepWJ19]

Wait the cards are to be used by handing them to the officer?

I did not know that. I thought it was just a card that you should read to know your rights and apply when needed. I don't think I would want to actually hand it to an officer lol.

 

[javacontour]

Define work?

If you mean that you are going to get better treatment from an LEO, probably not.

If you mean you can learn about your rights, maybe.

If you mean you can learn how to interact with another human being who probably doesn't like the situation any more than you do... again, probably not.

I think that is the thing we forget. On both sides of the interaction are people. The officer wants to make it home at the end of his shift. The motorist (or similar) wants to get out of the encounter without going to jail or worse.

For everyone who says there are cops who J&H when putting on the uniform, there probably are.

And the same is true for motorists. There are some people who get mighty brave and aggressive when they are behind the wheel of a vehicle.

And for both sets, it's not 100% of the population. You have good and bad cops. You have good and bad motorists.

Just like it is for pretty much every subset of humans.

 

[HoosierJeeper]

I didn't know you actually handed the card to an officer. LOL anyone that thinks the card will give them special treatment above the law might be a bit dumb.

 

[dareo]

I roll down all windows, put both arms out of the driver window so the cop can see my hands and know he is not at any risk. Combine that with respect and courtesy and citations are minimized.

 

[raytseng]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Define work?

If you mean that you are going to get better treatment from an LEO, probably not.

If you mean you can learn about your rights, maybe.

If you mean you can learn how to interact with another human being who probably doesn't like the situation any more than you do... again, probably not.

I think that is the thing we forget. On both sides of the interaction are people. The officer wants to make it home at the end of his shift. The motorist (or similar) wants to get out of the encounter without going to jail or worse.

For everyone who says there are cops who J&H when putting on the uniform, there probably are.

And the same is true for motorists. There are some people who get mighty brave and aggressive when they are behind the wheel of a vehicle.

And for both sets, it's not 100% of the population. You have good and bad cops. You have good and bad motorists.

Just like it is for pretty much every subset of humans.


yea but the apologists keep using the its just one bad apple excuse; forgetting that the rest of the saying that one bad apple spoils the bunch.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Al
Pulling out that card shows the officer you have an IQ of less than 70. Treating an officer with respect will go a way longer way than that card. Been there done that. In my interactions with an officer over traffic issues...on those occasions the officer cut me a break 4 out of 4 times.


Politeness goes a long way. When I presided over traffic court the citations had a check box at the top labeled "ATTN." If that box wasn't checked it meant that the officer didn't care what we did with the ticket- dismiss, defer, whatever. If the box was checked it indicated the defendant had acted like a jerk and the officer wanted input into any plea agreement.
Note that this applied to minor moving violations like speeding- not DUI, driving without insurance, etc.

I know one State Trooper who was pretty laid back; he pulled a lady over for speeding and intended to give her a warning; as he walked up to the car she said, "I guess you don't have a d@mn thing better to do than pull me over." She ended up being charged with speeding and several equipment and documentation violations.
You never when an argument with a LEO at the side of the road...

 

[Panzerman]

Police need to learn that citizens have rights.
It's embarrassing how many a
Americans would rather kiss up to a cop and not exercise your rights to illegal seziure.
Police are not doing anything for the public by having window tint indicators and using them. It's harassment.
DUI checkpoints are harrassment and quite frankly if a person hasn't broken a law you have no bussiness stopping them. Police in this country are out of control and although they may think they are the big tough guys that make the laws and you will suffer if I get my tint indicator out if you don't respect me. That's so petty.
Hope you know how little you sound with that statement.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted By: DB_Cooper
Actually that scenario goes like this:

"am I free to go or am I being detained?"

LEO replies "I am doing an investigation..you are being detained while I complete my investigation"

"why am I being detained?"

LEO "I am doing an investigation" "May I search your car?"

"No, I want a lawyer and right to silence"

LEO "no problem..turn around and I am placing you in handcuffs for your safety and mine"

"why?"

LEO "you are interfering with a police investigation..you are not under arrest at this time..may I search your car?"

"No and I want my attorney present and right to silence"

LEO "no problem..wait here till the K-9 unit arrives and we will proceed from there, you are not under arrest at this time"


Essentially Your rights end where my feelings begin
Unless you have a strong desire to adopt great trouble and hardships in your life, you never challenge a cop or try to defend yourself- ever. Make it clear to the officer that you are indeed at their mercy and that you assume a 100% clear and evident role of subordination- it's the only way to minimize damage.

 

[L_Sludger]

"I know my rights!"
-Drunk Steve from the YouTube comedy series

 

[Vuflanovsky]

Spiteful cops aren't good cops in my experience but I wouldn't pass judgement on Bubba one way or another as that's an anecdote and may or may not be reflective of how he did his job.

While I think the idea of these "rights cards" is pretty stupid and creates an environment of "flaunting" an attitude...I wouldn't stick my hands/arms out the window of the car either unless I was instructed to do so...I believe there have been instances where the person stopped did this to indicate they weren't armed and not a threat and subsequently produced a firearm and shot. This might have an unintended effect.

I come from a family of police officers but there is such a thing as an eff-up cop ( the media magnetizes to them ) and I sure wouldn't want to test the waters with something as stupid as showing him a card and arguing search and seizure law when just interacting with him/her normally would have created a scenario to let you go on your way. If it's an unwarranted ticket I'll say something and if it has to go to court then it will. I don't feel a subservience on that count but I do feel that a rights card is something a runner from one of the cartels ( OR the drunk driving enthusiast ) would carry and not a regular citizen...not a good idea.