Led headlights...
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With LED lights it's not the actual LED that burns out, because internally there is nothing to burn out. However it is the cheap circuit board its components that fail.
I have not seen a single burnt out LED headlight.
I wonder if this is due to owner fitted "improvements"??
The headlights on my S Class are the best headlights I have ever had on a vehicle of any kind.
Just leave them on Auto and they adjust automatically so as to light up the road without dazzling other drivers.
I wonder if this is due to owner fitted "improvements"??
The headlights on my S Class are the best headlights I have ever had on a vehicle of any kind.
Just leave them on Auto and they adjust automatically so as to light up the road without dazzling other drivers.
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Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: dishdude
As far as actual LED headlights (not just decorative) are there any manufacturers other than Honda/Acura using them? I have decorative LED rings in my Jeep, but the actual headlights are HIDs.
Mercedes went to LED as standard equipment on the E class in 2014. They're also in other classes, but I don't know when they did the switch for other models. I prefer my HID in previous years, those came with headlamp washers and they got rid of them with the LEDs. They did keep the active curve illumination feature found on the bixenons but they called them dynamic LEDs, but that was an extra cost option. I believe the Corolla also had them as standard a few years ago, can't remember what year they started. The tail lights were LEDs years ago, when they failed, you couldn't just replace a bulb, you had the buy the whole tail lamp for a few hundred. In those cases, the control board in the tail lamp went bad, not the LEDs.
Thw W222 S Class from 2013 onwards was the first Mercedes to not have any other kind of bulb anywhere that wasn't LED.
I don't think the E Class in the UK market was all LED till the latest model came out.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
As far as actual LED headlights (not just decorative) are there any manufacturers other than Honda/Acura using them? I have decorative LED rings in my Jeep, but the actual headlights are HIDs.
Mercedes went to LED as standard equipment on the E class in 2014. They're also in other classes, but I don't know when they did the switch for other models. I prefer my HID in previous years, those came with headlamp washers and they got rid of them with the LEDs. They did keep the active curve illumination feature found on the bixenons but they called them dynamic LEDs, but that was an extra cost option. I believe the Corolla also had them as standard a few years ago, can't remember what year they started. The tail lights were LEDs years ago, when they failed, you couldn't just replace a bulb, you had the buy the whole tail lamp for a few hundred. In those cases, the control board in the tail lamp went bad, not the LEDs.
Thw W222 S Class from 2013 onwards was the first Mercedes to not have any other kind of bulb anywhere that wasn't LED.
I don't think the E Class in the UK market was all LED till the latest model came out.
Originally Posted By: lugNutz
Originally Posted By: PimTac
My first guess is cheap Chinese leds.
When it comes to the LED itself- if non-OEM, maybe.... If OEM, this is unfortunately not the case.
The LED circuit boards ARE cheaply made. I've had a few apart on newer cars that were flickering. OEMs contract out to companies to manufacture these parts for them, they don't make them in-house.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
My first guess is cheap Chinese leds.
When it comes to the LED itself- if non-OEM, maybe.... If OEM, this is unfortunately not the case.
The LED circuit boards ARE cheaply made. I've had a few apart on newer cars that were flickering. OEMs contract out to companies to manufacture these parts for them, they don't make them in-house.
I'm not even at 30k on mine, so can't vouch for longevity. As nice as it is to see, I agree that they are too bright, you figure that out when you can see in fine detail what is going on inside the car in the oncoming lane (going over a hill).
They are stupid expensive for the rx, 2300 for housing and leds and 3800 for complete setup with ballast. Each.
They are stupid expensive for the rx, 2300 for housing and leds and 3800 for complete setup with ballast. Each.
So..... I'm driving a 1991 Ford F-150. I was thinking about replacing my Halogen headlamps with one of those LED conversion kits. They're cheap enough now, (I've seen them anywhere from $40.00 to $80.00 for the pair). And they're supposed to be, "Plug & Play", without any rewiring or modification required. Just untwist and unplug the old Halogen, and plug in the new LED and twist the whole unit into place.
But now you guys are giving me second thoughts. I'm not going to bother if they're going to burn out quickly. I'm not understanding why they would? Most of the units I've looked at come with a small cooling fan built into the unit to keep them cool.
But now you guys are giving me second thoughts. I'm not going to bother if they're going to burn out quickly. I'm not understanding why they would? Most of the units I've looked at come with a small cooling fan built into the unit to keep them cool.
Originally Posted By: billt460
...I'm not going to bother if they're going to burn out quickly. I'm not understanding why they would? ..
I would guess that early death is due to poor thermal management.
Here is a peek into what an OEM (Renault) does to ensure proper thermal management:
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/pri...-with-leds.html
Quote:
...PAUL-HENRI MATHA explains how thermal analysis using computational assessment is guiding the development of LED-based headlight assemblies that will serve across many models in the company's automotive portfolio...
... With the thermal improvements to the LEDs, we increased the LED current, the maximum junction temperature usage, and the flux derating at a lower ambient temperature as shown in the table. Similarly, with the associated heatsink design, we were able to better manage junction temperature and derating through our detailed thermal simulations....
...Looking deeper at our general CFD-based thermal analysis approach that typically is used to optimize headlamp designs, we would normally be interested in predicting lighting performance at 23°C outside the headlamp in ambient air and up to a maximum of 70°C for the outside temperature for the outer boundary of LED reliability. To validate our simulations, we performed some experiments where we fixed the ambient temperature outside the headlamp at 23°C and installed eight thermocouples outside the assembly for a car with its engine on and off....
...It is clear that the temperatures can reach over 50°C inside the headlamp when the engine is idling and the lighting is on for a prolonged period. In addition, headlamp surface temperatures can rise to 65°C in certain idling conditions.
With other tests, we found that with just a low beam on for an hour, the temperature inside the headlight went to 20°C, and with both low and high beams on for an hour, an extra 5°C in temperature was measured.
THERMAL ANALYSIS
We also performed a series of tests in which we evaluated the effects of engine idling and lights either on or off by looking at the Rjth (thermal resistance) of an Altilon LED assembly (3 K/W) and three chips driven at 1A and a Δ(Tjunction - Tcase) temperature differential of 20°C. We were able to show that for ambient temperatures of 70°C and with both low- and high beams on, together with the engine on, the junction temperature of the LEDs comes very close to the worst-case scenario of 150°C.
We concluded that it was not possible to design an LED system if we were to take into account all the use cases. The OEM must therefore define the best compromise. For example, at 23°C after one hour of engine idling, lighting performance was shown to be at 100%, but if the ambient temperature rose to 50°C for the same situation, the lighting performance would go down to 80%. To respect this specification, we concluded that a thermal sensor had to be added to the PCB (printed circuit board) so the current could be reduced if the temperature at the LED was greater than a threshold we would define. We could then do a thermal derating and a flux derating of the full LED headlamp...
How many Chinese manufacturers of aftermarket LED bulbs are doing this kind of in depth thermal analysis and testing? I think it is safe to answer "none".
...I'm not going to bother if they're going to burn out quickly. I'm not understanding why they would? ..
I would guess that early death is due to poor thermal management.
Here is a peek into what an OEM (Renault) does to ensure proper thermal management:
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/pri...-with-leds.html
Quote:
...PAUL-HENRI MATHA explains how thermal analysis using computational assessment is guiding the development of LED-based headlight assemblies that will serve across many models in the company's automotive portfolio...
... With the thermal improvements to the LEDs, we increased the LED current, the maximum junction temperature usage, and the flux derating at a lower ambient temperature as shown in the table. Similarly, with the associated heatsink design, we were able to better manage junction temperature and derating through our detailed thermal simulations....
...Looking deeper at our general CFD-based thermal analysis approach that typically is used to optimize headlamp designs, we would normally be interested in predicting lighting performance at 23°C outside the headlamp in ambient air and up to a maximum of 70°C for the outside temperature for the outer boundary of LED reliability. To validate our simulations, we performed some experiments where we fixed the ambient temperature outside the headlamp at 23°C and installed eight thermocouples outside the assembly for a car with its engine on and off....
...It is clear that the temperatures can reach over 50°C inside the headlamp when the engine is idling and the lighting is on for a prolonged period. In addition, headlamp surface temperatures can rise to 65°C in certain idling conditions.
With other tests, we found that with just a low beam on for an hour, the temperature inside the headlight went to 20°C, and with both low and high beams on for an hour, an extra 5°C in temperature was measured.
THERMAL ANALYSIS
We also performed a series of tests in which we evaluated the effects of engine idling and lights either on or off by looking at the Rjth (thermal resistance) of an Altilon LED assembly (3 K/W) and three chips driven at 1A and a Δ(Tjunction - Tcase) temperature differential of 20°C. We were able to show that for ambient temperatures of 70°C and with both low- and high beams on, together with the engine on, the junction temperature of the LEDs comes very close to the worst-case scenario of 150°C.
We concluded that it was not possible to design an LED system if we were to take into account all the use cases. The OEM must therefore define the best compromise. For example, at 23°C after one hour of engine idling, lighting performance was shown to be at 100%, but if the ambient temperature rose to 50°C for the same situation, the lighting performance would go down to 80%. To respect this specification, we concluded that a thermal sensor had to be added to the PCB (printed circuit board) so the current could be reduced if the temperature at the LED was greater than a threshold we would define. We could then do a thermal derating and a flux derating of the full LED headlamp...
How many Chinese manufacturers of aftermarket LED bulbs are doing this kind of in depth thermal analysis and testing? I think it is safe to answer "none".
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
How many Chinese manufacturers of aftermarket LED bulbs are doing this kind of in depth thermal analysis and testing? I think it is safe to answer "none".
And you would be wrong (IPF data on thermal testing and effectiveness of thermal management):
HTH
How many Chinese manufacturers of aftermarket LED bulbs are doing this kind of in depth thermal analysis and testing? I think it is safe to answer "none".
And you would be wrong (IPF data on thermal testing and effectiveness of thermal management):
HTH
Don't any American manufacturers offer, "Plug & Play" LED replacement headlamp bulbs as conversions for older model cars? I would gladly pay a few bucks more for something that has a better chance of lasting. Ease of installation means more here than saving a few dollars by going Chinese. (That is assuming the one's I looked at were Chinese. And assuming based on that they're so bad).
Originally Posted By: billt460
Don't any American manufacturers offer, "Plug & Play" LED replacement headlamp bulbs as conversions for older model cars? I would gladly pay a few bucks more for something that has a better chance of lasting. Ease of installation means more here than saving a few dollars by going Chinese. (That is assuming the one's I looked at were Chinese. And assuming based on that they're so bad).
https://www.diodedynamics.com/
I have just about every light on my truck switched to theirs, except my headlight bulbs. Waiting on their new SL2 bulb. Their reverse LED is pretty amazing. A bit pricey, but amazing.
Don't any American manufacturers offer, "Plug & Play" LED replacement headlamp bulbs as conversions for older model cars? I would gladly pay a few bucks more for something that has a better chance of lasting. Ease of installation means more here than saving a few dollars by going Chinese. (That is assuming the one's I looked at were Chinese. And assuming based on that they're so bad).
https://www.diodedynamics.com/
I have just about every light on my truck switched to theirs, except my headlight bulbs. Waiting on their new SL2 bulb. Their reverse LED is pretty amazing. A bit pricey, but amazing.
None of which are DOT legal, correct?
Correct kschachn.
Don't do it billt460. Remember an OEM halogen bulb is designed for the filament light source of a halogen bulb. An LED is entirely different in the way the light projects outward and the reflectors and diffusers in the headlamps lens are not set up for it. One may think they are getting better light...but uncontrolled light puking out the front of your vehicle isn't better...for anyone (oncoming or yourself)
Mazda3 has LED headlamps on the highest model. Unfortunately you have to get them if you want the bigger engine. Arrg.
Don't do it billt460. Remember an OEM halogen bulb is designed for the filament light source of a halogen bulb. An LED is entirely different in the way the light projects outward and the reflectors and diffusers in the headlamps lens are not set up for it. One may think they are getting better light...but uncontrolled light puking out the front of your vehicle isn't better...for anyone (oncoming or yourself)
Mazda3 has LED headlamps on the highest model. Unfortunately you have to get them if you want the bigger engine. Arrg.
I put some very similar LED bulbs in my backup spots. They look almost identical to the ones on that web site. They come through the reflectors at an angle in my Mazda3 hatchback. After several years of using them I tried the original filament bulbs and found them to light the area behind the car noticeably better. So, now I'm in the "brighter does not always mean better" camp.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I put some very similar LED bulbs in my backup spots. They look almost identical to the ones on that web site. They come through the reflectors at an angle in my Mazda3 hatchback. After several years of using them I tried the original filament bulbs and found them to light the area behind the car noticeably better. So, now I'm in the "brighter does not always mean better" camp.
It may really depend on the housing. I know for my frontier, and GTI, LED reverse bulbs are amazing. They make the cameras function much better at night, and actually let people know you're backing up. compared to the OE bulbs, those are dimmer than cell phone lights.
I put some very similar LED bulbs in my backup spots. They look almost identical to the ones on that web site. They come through the reflectors at an angle in my Mazda3 hatchback. After several years of using them I tried the original filament bulbs and found them to light the area behind the car noticeably better. So, now I'm in the "brighter does not always mean better" camp.
It may really depend on the housing. I know for my frontier, and GTI, LED reverse bulbs are amazing. They make the cameras function much better at night, and actually let people know you're backing up. compared to the OE bulbs, those are dimmer than cell phone lights.
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I put some very similar LED bulbs in my backup spots. They look almost identical to the ones on that web site. They come through the reflectors at an angle in my Mazda3 hatchback. After several years of using them I tried the original filament bulbs and found them to light the area behind the car noticeably better. So, now I'm in the "brighter does not always mean better" camp.
It may really depend on the housing. I know for my frontier, and GTI, LED reverse bulbs are amazing. They make the cameras function much better at night, and actually let people know you're backing up. compared to the OE bulbs, those are dimmer than cell phone lights.
I'm sure it does. The LED bulbs I have contain little projector lenses at the tops and LED emitters down the sides. Since they mount in the housing at angles pointing toward the sides of the car the projectors don't do much good. I had a pair of 50W halogen backup bulbs in my old Accord that were great. I can't seem to find halogen replacements for the 7440 bulbs I have now. Probably not a great idea to stick a 50W bulb into a socket intended for a 21W bulb, anyway.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I put some very similar LED bulbs in my backup spots. They look almost identical to the ones on that web site. They come through the reflectors at an angle in my Mazda3 hatchback. After several years of using them I tried the original filament bulbs and found them to light the area behind the car noticeably better. So, now I'm in the "brighter does not always mean better" camp.
It may really depend on the housing. I know for my frontier, and GTI, LED reverse bulbs are amazing. They make the cameras function much better at night, and actually let people know you're backing up. compared to the OE bulbs, those are dimmer than cell phone lights.
I'm sure it does. The LED bulbs I have contain little projector lenses at the tops and LED emitters down the sides. Since they mount in the housing at angles pointing toward the sides of the car the projectors don't do much good. I had a pair of 50W halogen backup bulbs in my old Accord that were great. I can't seem to find halogen replacements for the 7440 bulbs I have now. Probably not a great idea to stick a 50W bulb into a socket intended for a 21W bulb, anyway.
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Don't do it billt460. Remember an OEM halogen bulb is designed for the filament light source of a halogen bulb. An LED is entirely different in the way the light projects outward and the reflectors and diffusers in the headlamps lens are not set up for it. One may think they are getting better light...but uncontrolled light puking out the front of your vehicle isn't better...for anyone (oncoming or yourself).
Thanks for the heads up. I'll pass. I got the idea from this guy. He's a bit obnoxious, but he has good common sense and knows a lot about cars from experience.
Don't do it billt460. Remember an OEM halogen bulb is designed for the filament light source of a halogen bulb. An LED is entirely different in the way the light projects outward and the reflectors and diffusers in the headlamps lens are not set up for it. One may think they are getting better light...but uncontrolled light puking out the front of your vehicle isn't better...for anyone (oncoming or yourself).
Thanks for the heads up. I'll pass. I got the idea from this guy. He's a bit obnoxious, but he has good common sense and knows a lot about cars from experience.
Technically legitimate LED replacements for halogen bulbs in halogen optical systems will arrive. When? I don't know.
SAE is still working on finalizing standards:
https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j3145/
Quote:
Forward Lighting LED Substitute Light Sources for Halogen Light Sources J3145
This SAE Recommended Practice is intended as a guide for specifying LED Substitute Light Sources as Equivalents for corresponding RID filament light sources and is subject to change to keep pace with experience and technical advances. This document defines criteria for technical equivalence in order to make a substitution of a filament light source with an LED light source without compromising the performance of the RID device.
RID = road illumination device
SAE is still working on finalizing standards:
https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j3145/
Quote:
Forward Lighting LED Substitute Light Sources for Halogen Light Sources J3145
This SAE Recommended Practice is intended as a guide for specifying LED Substitute Light Sources as Equivalents for corresponding RID filament light sources and is subject to change to keep pace with experience and technical advances. This document defines criteria for technical equivalence in order to make a substitution of a filament light source with an LED light source without compromising the performance of the RID device.
RID = road illumination device
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Originally Posted By: billt460
Don't any American manufacturers offer, "Plug & Play" LED replacement headlamp bulbs as conversions for older model cars?..
You can buy American made LED headlamps , with legal beam patterns, from American companies like JW Speaker and Truck-Lite. But they won't be cheap.
Don't any American manufacturers offer, "Plug & Play" LED replacement headlamp bulbs as conversions for older model cars?..
You can buy American made LED headlamps , with legal beam patterns, from American companies like JW Speaker and Truck-Lite. But they won't be cheap.
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