Is -25F rated washer fluid good enough?
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Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: BJD78
Growing up in ND back in the 60's and 70's, my dad used to always dump in a bottle of drug store alcohol in to the washer fluid reservoir every winter. He added it to the blue stuff which is good to -25. Not sure how much lower it could go with the alcohol,
Texas heat boils off all the alcohol, so in the late fall/winter I toss in a bottle of 70% isopropyl
Keeps the tank "liquid", and also helps deice the windshield if needed.
I had to do that last week. We had lows in the teens, and my mother in law’s fluid was frozen. AAP had Iso Heet on sale, so I poured some in. It took a couple of hours, but it was flowing again.
Originally Posted By: BJD78
Growing up in ND back in the 60's and 70's, my dad used to always dump in a bottle of drug store alcohol in to the washer fluid reservoir every winter. He added it to the blue stuff which is good to -25. Not sure how much lower it could go with the alcohol,
Texas heat boils off all the alcohol, so in the late fall/winter I toss in a bottle of 70% isopropyl
Keeps the tank "liquid", and also helps deice the windshield if needed.
I had to do that last week. We had lows in the teens, and my mother in law’s fluid was frozen. AAP had Iso Heet on sale, so I poured some in. It took a couple of hours, but it was flowing again.
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I'm not sure what the point of a stash is.
I just got out of control, buying stuff that was on sale! If I had just been patient until I had found the deal at Costco, my supply would be much lower. I'm not buying any more until I use up what I have now!
I don't know about Costco, but BJ's had a case of 6 at $10, but it's been $1.58 at Walmart for -20F for years now so there's no point for me having a stash. It's just that they stop selling it in the summer so the most I'd have is one spare. My two cars seem to take over a gallon each.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I'm not sure what the point of a stash is.
I just got out of control, buying stuff that was on sale! If I had just been patient until I had found the deal at Costco, my supply would be much lower. I'm not buying any more until I use up what I have now!
I don't know about Costco, but BJ's had a case of 6 at $10, but it's been $1.58 at Walmart for -20F for years now so there's no point for me having a stash. It's just that they stop selling it in the summer so the most I'd have is one spare. My two cars seem to take over a gallon each.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Don't totally know if I agree with wonder chill not having an affect on certain things.. Wind chill can and does cool down bridges that are elevated and with a very consistent wind blowing. I had to ride in a Pinto (of all cars) with my father who had been drinking too much... Two lane bridge... Long steel grate... Temperature was not below freezing at 37°. However, the wind was blowing consistently above 25 mph with gust over 40 mph. And guess what... That steel grate had water Frozen on it, on the rails has well. Needless to say I was more that a bit spooked out. At 12 yrs old I thought.. well this is it. I ain't making it out of this nonsense.
Another case where the wind obviously had an effect was on my lady's Camry. Driving down the road with temp at 6°F at 60 mph the radiator temp would drop a decent bit. Come to a stop for a bit at a stop light... And it would go up. Drive again and it would drop again a decent bit. Park the car at home for 15 minutes and it came up a lot more to near normal. I have no doubt that the wind from driving drove that radiator temp down. That wondering had to of had an impact upon that radiator temperature. And it was a darn cold wind at that. Just my opinion on that. Even on a windshield that would be going down the road at 60 mph at 6°F it is bound to cause a wind chill affect upon it. It may not be to the same affect as what it is that affects human skin. But it has to have an impact to some degree. I'd bet a motor that had been run for an hour and then turned off and let to sit with zero exposure to consistent cold wind would cool down slower than one that had been exposed to a consistent cold wind. The radiating from the motor with no wind would not be cooling off as quickly. The cold wind would be constantly and consistently removing the heat away from the motor thus making more efficient in it losing it's heat quicker. Nature is always trying to find balance. In this circumstance the process would be faster due to those conditions.
As others mentioned, I'm not sure if you have a firm grasp of wind chill. Just look it up, it refers to what the wind feels like on exposed skin. For inanimate objects like bridges and cars, it's impossible for the temperature to be below the ambient temperature no matter how hard the wind was blowing. The wind just lowers the temperature to ambient quicker.
What happened on the bridge was that it was probably below freezing at one point and the temperature went up. It takes a few days for frozen ponds to unfreeze once the temperature goes up, it's not the wind blowing that keeps it down.
Don't totally know if I agree with wonder chill not having an affect on certain things.. Wind chill can and does cool down bridges that are elevated and with a very consistent wind blowing. I had to ride in a Pinto (of all cars) with my father who had been drinking too much... Two lane bridge... Long steel grate... Temperature was not below freezing at 37°. However, the wind was blowing consistently above 25 mph with gust over 40 mph. And guess what... That steel grate had water Frozen on it, on the rails has well. Needless to say I was more that a bit spooked out. At 12 yrs old I thought.. well this is it. I ain't making it out of this nonsense.
Another case where the wind obviously had an effect was on my lady's Camry. Driving down the road with temp at 6°F at 60 mph the radiator temp would drop a decent bit. Come to a stop for a bit at a stop light... And it would go up. Drive again and it would drop again a decent bit. Park the car at home for 15 minutes and it came up a lot more to near normal. I have no doubt that the wind from driving drove that radiator temp down. That wondering had to of had an impact upon that radiator temperature. And it was a darn cold wind at that. Just my opinion on that. Even on a windshield that would be going down the road at 60 mph at 6°F it is bound to cause a wind chill affect upon it. It may not be to the same affect as what it is that affects human skin. But it has to have an impact to some degree. I'd bet a motor that had been run for an hour and then turned off and let to sit with zero exposure to consistent cold wind would cool down slower than one that had been exposed to a consistent cold wind. The radiating from the motor with no wind would not be cooling off as quickly. The cold wind would be constantly and consistently removing the heat away from the motor thus making more efficient in it losing it's heat quicker. Nature is always trying to find balance. In this circumstance the process would be faster due to those conditions.
As others mentioned, I'm not sure if you have a firm grasp of wind chill. Just look it up, it refers to what the wind feels like on exposed skin. For inanimate objects like bridges and cars, it's impossible for the temperature to be below the ambient temperature no matter how hard the wind was blowing. The wind just lowers the temperature to ambient quicker.
What happened on the bridge was that it was probably below freezing at one point and the temperature went up. It takes a few days for frozen ponds to unfreeze once the temperature goes up, it's not the wind blowing that keeps it down.
No. Put flatly and plainly you are wrong. It was 37°F and wind blew 25-40 mph.... This wind chill caused that bridge to freeze at the top of it with the steel grate. And for the record it was never "above" freezing before that afternoon... Guess what...??? Two days earlier... It was 75°F. This was in November 1987. A large snowstorm for the east coast. Which was largely not forecasted well....
It is you who doesn't understand that wind blowing constantly and consistently will drop the effective temp of a inanimate surface. It will cause a surface to effectively freeze even if the regular air temperature is above freezing. Again, there are strict parameters to be met. High strong and consistent winds and a surface that is elevated, and a surface that is likely to be effected by those conditions.
It is you who doesn't understand that wind blowing constantly and consistently will drop the effective temp of a inanimate surface. It will cause a surface to effectively freeze even if the regular air temperature is above freezing. Again, there are strict parameters to be met. High strong and consistent winds and a surface that is elevated, and a surface that is likely to be effected by those conditions.
I guess you haven't heard of a flash freeze.... Well here's your introduction... Temperature 41°F... Some sun that day... Then a massive arctic front pushing through with -30C air at 850 mb. Rain mixed with snow turns to all snow in less than han a minute. Snow coming down with visibility less than a quarter miles. In less than 3 minutes everything is white and snow covered... The ground, road, trees, cars and everything else. What happened?? A flash freeze. Snow coming down super hard which is supercooled and below freezing at 32°F caused the air temp to plummet below 32°F. It also dropped the effective surface temp to freezing. Thus leading to everything becoming snow covered. Then when the snow slows down and temperature stabilized the snow melts on the ground and road afterward. Why?? Due to the conditions that started when the front came through. In other words.... A short term change in atmospheric and ground conditions greatly changed the environment.
This leads back to the wind blowing hard enough in a given circumstance can lead to the surface temperature effectively changing.... It takes the correct specific set of circumstances being met for this to happen. Does this happen very often???? No. Of course not. Rarely in most areas of the US. Anyone wonder why in their cars it has a "icy" conditions things pop up at 37°F in their cars?? I would think this circumstance is potentially why that is done. It could happen.
Another thought here... Why if air flow dies not matter to inanimate objects then why do bridges freeze before roadways?? Simply because the air flow above and below the bridge is far more effective at dropping be the surface temperature below freezing. Air flow does matter. If wind effects human beings than to think it does not effect other surfaces is candidly strange at best.
I know what I saw on that bridge. And I know I've seen rain freeze in the trees when it was 34°F but with a high wind howling constantly and consistently.
This leads back to the wind blowing hard enough in a given circumstance can lead to the surface temperature effectively changing.... It takes the correct specific set of circumstances being met for this to happen. Does this happen very often???? No. Of course not. Rarely in most areas of the US. Anyone wonder why in their cars it has a "icy" conditions things pop up at 37°F in their cars?? I would think this circumstance is potentially why that is done. It could happen.
Another thought here... Why if air flow dies not matter to inanimate objects then why do bridges freeze before roadways?? Simply because the air flow above and below the bridge is far more effective at dropping be the surface temperature below freezing. Air flow does matter. If wind effects human beings than to think it does not effect other surfaces is candidly strange at best.
I know what I saw on that bridge. And I know I've seen rain freeze in the trees when it was 34°F but with a high wind howling constantly and consistently.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Another thought here... Why if air flow dies not matter to inanimate objects then why do bridges freeze before roadways?? Simply because the air flow above and below the bridge is far more effective at dropping be the surface temperature below freezing. Air flow does matter. If wind effects human beings than to think it does not effect other surfaces is candidly strange at best.
I know what I saw on that bridge. And I know I've seen rain freeze in the trees when it was 34°F but with a high wind howling constantly and consistently.
That's convective heat transfer, not a further lowering of the temperature due to the wind. The bridge freezes faster because the ambient temperature is already below freezing, and because the air can flow over both the upper and the lower surfaces (and there isn't a ready-made heat sink in the soil) it cools faster than the surface roadway. But eventually both will reach the same temperature. You're confusing the rate of heat transfer with evaporative cooling.
Another thought here... Why if air flow dies not matter to inanimate objects then why do bridges freeze before roadways?? Simply because the air flow above and below the bridge is far more effective at dropping be the surface temperature below freezing. Air flow does matter. If wind effects human beings than to think it does not effect other surfaces is candidly strange at best.
I know what I saw on that bridge. And I know I've seen rain freeze in the trees when it was 34°F but with a high wind howling constantly and consistently.
That's convective heat transfer, not a further lowering of the temperature due to the wind. The bridge freezes faster because the ambient temperature is already below freezing, and because the air can flow over both the upper and the lower surfaces (and there isn't a ready-made heat sink in the soil) it cools faster than the surface roadway. But eventually both will reach the same temperature. You're confusing the rate of heat transfer with evaporative cooling.
One thing to add.... And I will say I had not thought of this... But it makes a whole lot of sense...
Very steep lapse rate... That day in November 87 at the top of that bridge elevated 70 feet in the air could have easily been at 32°F. Due to very steep lapse rate present with the atmosphere that day. The air aloft was much colder above than at the surface elevation. That is what can easily explain that phenomenon that day.
I remember in 2015 we had a snowstorm a couple of days earlier. Then a massive warm front pushed north. When I drove Rte 199 that night up and down those hills... Temperature would be 40°F at the top of those hills and 33°F at the bottom of those hills. Elevation change of 40-50 feet.
Certainly could have been the case in that storm of early November 87 due to very strong temperature drop with gain in elevation.
So, in all of this.... I will say that I was wrong about all that stuff. Rand and Wolf you all are correct. So, there we go. Hope you guys have had a good day.
Very steep lapse rate... That day in November 87 at the top of that bridge elevated 70 feet in the air could have easily been at 32°F. Due to very steep lapse rate present with the atmosphere that day. The air aloft was much colder above than at the surface elevation. That is what can easily explain that phenomenon that day.
I remember in 2015 we had a snowstorm a couple of days earlier. Then a massive warm front pushed north. When I drove Rte 199 that night up and down those hills... Temperature would be 40°F at the top of those hills and 33°F at the bottom of those hills. Elevation change of 40-50 feet.
Certainly could have been the case in that storm of early November 87 due to very strong temperature drop with gain in elevation.
So, in all of this.... I will say that I was wrong about all that stuff. Rand and Wolf you all are correct. So, there we go. Hope you guys have had a good day.
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Originally Posted By: Patman
I now have way too much windshield washer fluid! I picked up two jugs of the -46C stuff from Real Canadian Superstore yesterday for $3.99 and then today when I went to Costco they had the -45C stuff in a box of 4 for $11! I still have one jug and a bit of the -25F stuff, two jugs of the -35C stuff and one left of the -49C! Some of us have oil stashes and some of us have wiper fluid stashes! LOL!
You're set! Let me know how "stainy" that RCSS stuff is. It looks excessively blue to me, like Toilet Duck or something.
I now have way too much windshield washer fluid! I picked up two jugs of the -46C stuff from Real Canadian Superstore yesterday for $3.99 and then today when I went to Costco they had the -45C stuff in a box of 4 for $11! I still have one jug and a bit of the -25F stuff, two jugs of the -35C stuff and one left of the -49C! Some of us have oil stashes and some of us have wiper fluid stashes! LOL!
You're set! Let me know how "stainy" that RCSS stuff is. It looks excessively blue to me, like Toilet Duck or something.
I have been using ST blue widow washer fluid for probably ten years now at least & never once have I seen it clump up or become stringy. Not once, and have had bottles sitting in my garage for long periods of time at times.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
One thing to add.... And I will say I had not thought of this... But it makes a whole lot of sense...
Very steep lapse rate... That day in November 87 at the top of that bridge elevated 70 feet in the air could have easily been at 32°F. Due to very steep lapse rate present with the atmosphere that day. The air aloft was much colder above than at the surface elevation. That is what can easily explain that phenomenon that day.
I remember in 2015 we had a snowstorm a couple of days earlier. Then a massive warm front pushed north. When I drove Rte 199 that night up and down those hills... Temperature would be 40°F at the top of those hills and 33°F at the bottom of those hills. Elevation change of 40-50 feet.
Certainly could have been the case in that storm of early November 87 due to very strong temperature drop with gain in elevation.
So, in all of this.... I will say that I was wrong about all that stuff. Rand and Wolf you all are correct. So, there we go. Hope you guys have had a good day.
Well normally there's a 3 degree change per thousand feet. And I was just going to refer you to the wiki about it. It's a standard bit of info to anyone in the science/engineering/chemistry field.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill
If it were true, I'd ask you how many degrees does it lower it based on wind speed? Then I'd have something at absolute 0 and apply that wind speed to reduce the temperature even more...
One thing to add.... And I will say I had not thought of this... But it makes a whole lot of sense...
Very steep lapse rate... That day in November 87 at the top of that bridge elevated 70 feet in the air could have easily been at 32°F. Due to very steep lapse rate present with the atmosphere that day. The air aloft was much colder above than at the surface elevation. That is what can easily explain that phenomenon that day.
I remember in 2015 we had a snowstorm a couple of days earlier. Then a massive warm front pushed north. When I drove Rte 199 that night up and down those hills... Temperature would be 40°F at the top of those hills and 33°F at the bottom of those hills. Elevation change of 40-50 feet.
Certainly could have been the case in that storm of early November 87 due to very strong temperature drop with gain in elevation.
So, in all of this.... I will say that I was wrong about all that stuff. Rand and Wolf you all are correct. So, there we go. Hope you guys have had a good day.
Well normally there's a 3 degree change per thousand feet. And I was just going to refer you to the wiki about it. It's a standard bit of info to anyone in the science/engineering/chemistry field.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill
If it were true, I'd ask you how many degrees does it lower it based on wind speed? Then I'd have something at absolute 0 and apply that wind speed to reduce the temperature even more...
Yep. My bottle doesn’t look like anything on their site.
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