Increasing hostility on BITOG

[Strokenmerc]

Wait, you don't like Lucas oil stabilizer? Just kidding. But I have to add that simply because a member is new that doesn't mean anything about what knowledge they might posses.

Was not trying to discount the knowledge of the newer members, heck I'm new but have been lurking and reading posts for years. The new member may not be aware or may not take the time to research the "hot button" topics that have been discussed here previously. The search function is quite useful since the changeover if a new member opts to use it.

 

[OilReport99]

simply because a member is new that doesn't mean anything about what knowledge they might posses.

As soon as they take offense and start bickering, you have an idea.

 

[TiGeo]

Not sure I see the threads getting derailed very often but most bickering is the result of newer members expressing his/her belief in a product or procedure without data to substantiate. Most times, the product or procedure cannot be proven with testing or data. The bickering starts when the more knowledgeable members explain the ineffectiveness and the new member takes offense. Most notably is topics like motor flushes, Lucas oil stabilizer, and many other "additives".

The Mods do a great job on this forum in my opinion. There may be a rare occasion to view questionable content before a mod has time to react.

Additionally the "more knowledgeable" member explaining the ineffectiveness also lacks substantive proof of that position in the eyes of the n00b and so it goes...

 

[OVERKILL]

Wait, you don't like Lucas oil stabilizer? Just kidding. But I have to add that simply because a member is new that doesn't mean anything about what knowledge they might posses.

This is true, but when a member joins and immediately starts making broadly incorrect statements then gets incredibly indignant when called on them, that's not a recipe for the exchange heading in a productive direction. When asked to substantiate and they immediately start denigrating those simply asking for proof, again, things are bound to head into the weeds.

The only thing worse than a cocky know-it-all is one that just thinks they do. Most of the "old boys" here are wise enough to know that there is still a ton to learn but they are willing to share the knowledge that they have accumulated thus far if people are willing to listen. That doesn't mean stifling debate, quite the opposite, productive debate that's based in civility is strongly encouraged! Alas, if only that was the way things always went.

 

[Wolf359]

Additionally the "more knowledgeable" member explaining the ineffectiveness also lacks substantive proof of that position in the eyes of the n00b and so it goes...

And regardless of whether they're a noob or not, the burden of proof lies on the one making the claim. The ones who don't believe don't have to say anything but that the one making the claim haven't proven their case.

 

[TiGeo]

And regardless of whether they're a noob or not, the burden of proof lies on the one making the claim. The ones who don't believe don't have to say anything but that the one making the claim haven't proven their case.

Correct. But in the post above it says "ineffectiveness" which is v. different than "prove it" and requires proof as well vs. asking a good question.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I once had a firefighter tell me that ice does not actually melt. What happens is, it transfers heat away from the surface of something else, and in absorbing that heat, then begins to turn into water from its solid state. I wonder.

I think that guy is actually on BITOG too.

 

[ZeeOSix]

And regardless of whether they're a noob or not, the burden of proof lies on the one making the claim. The ones who don't believe don't have to say anything but that the one making the claim haven't proven their case.

What ... you mean people can't just make statements without any proof/links when asked to back it up, and everyone should just believe them (ie, ice cubes actually don't melt when they turn to water, the earth is flat). Then when proof is shown from valid sources, it's just discounted as bogus information.

 

[JT20]

What ... you mean people can't just make statements without any proof/links when asked to back it up, and everyone should just believe them (ie, ice cubes actually don't melt when they turn to water, the earth is flat). Then when proof is shown from valid sources, it's just discounted as bogus information.

The earth is Flat? Nonsense.

Amazon.com

Now, as to the firefighter's humor.. It is a bit dry, isn't it. I would consider that "melting.";

BUT, then. Does the water dissolve INTO the soda? Or only coexist with it.. hey. Endless splitting hairs lol.

I didn't present the theory of ice not melting. I am the messenger. Please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I didn't present the theory of ice not melting. I am the messenger. Please don't shoot the messenger.

I know ... but the dude is here somewhere.

 

[Brons2]

Wait...ice doesn't melt? Good thing I moved to Texas 30 years ago.

 

[wemay]

The earth is Flat? Nonsense.

Amazon.com

Now, as to the firefighter's humor.. It is a bit dry, isn't it. I would consider that "melting.";

BUT, then. Does the water dissolve INTO the soda? Or only coexist with it.. hey. Endless splitting hairs lol.

I didn't present the theory of ice not melting. I am the messenger. Please don't shoot the messenger.

Sooooooo.... Storm Troopers (Tie Fighter) think the world is flat????

 

[JT20]

Sooooooo.... Storm Troopers (Tie Fighter) think the world is flat????

What? You got something to say about the Foo Fighters? lol

 

[Astro14]

I know I'm just a nobody new member here but I have seen more threads that went at least half-way off the rails on BITOG than the other two forums I have been a part of for the last 4-5 years. When a couple users begin to pollute a thread with personal digs and bickering there should be a moderator/admin to step in as an unbiased ref. On the rare occasion a thread goes off-topic in my favorite forum a moderator will either close the thread or the bickering parties are told they can keep bickering but do it in the "Off Topic" section. Sometimes the children need to separated. At the end of the day a forum seems much less professional and worthwhile if argumentative/contrarian personalities are allowed to dominate an otherwise serious/informative discussion. I'm not suggesting censorship but rather there is a time and place for everything.

Although, over on ArboristSite I have read some hilarious back and forth battles over things like a person's favorite 2-stroke oil or whether or not metal expands as it gets hotter.

Your claim is simply untrue.

You are clearly unaware of what moderating does take place here.

From previous posts in the thread:

The mods here all send PMs to members who are hostile, from time to time. The ask is always, "be cordial and if someone pokes you, just decline the invite to provide an emotional response." When someone continues to be a jerk, they are often asked to find their happiness elsewhere, as we do want BITOG to be a friendly place.

First, there is a great deal of moderating that takes place without you being aware. Editing, deleting, messaging, banning, all of it...

And I assure you that no one is untouchable. That's a false accusation. Moderators do respond to every notification, and we critique each other in order to maintain standards. I'm not afraid to ask another mod to give me their take on a situation or poster. We also have monthly meetings to discuss issues and decisions. It keeps us synchronized and as fair as we can be.

Next, if you can't see the hypocrisy in making hostile posts, while complaining about hostility, I can't help you.

Sorry you feel that way.

If you see personal digs, attacks, and bickering, then YOU have a responsibility to report those posts. With over 70,000 members, and millions of posts, moderators cannot see everything and rely on YOU, the members, to help us out.

So, instead of complaining, notify us on those posts... be part of the solution.

 

[Red Crow]

I would just like to say that I enjoy popping in to post my oil changes and to read a little. The other day I commented on a post and probably came across as hostile. It wasn't my intention, but it probably did anyway. My short term memory isn't great, but I imagine I was in a mood and probably should've butted out of that discussion without voicing my opinion. It really didn't contribute anything. This is by and large the most civil forum I've ever been on(haven't been on many). If I say something out of line, just call me on it. I'll stew for awhile and will eventually let better judgement guide the way. I dont want to cause problems.

 

[Sam_Julier]

All in all this is a well mannered site. The mods do an excellent job of keeping after the few who loose control. The vast majority of members are polite, well meaning folks. One of the reasons I enjoy the site and visit daily.

 

[4WD]

I've noticed the increase in hostility at a lot of forums I frequent over the last few years. BITOG is actually one of the best at still being civil, and I'm glad the mods reign it in when it does start to get out of hand. A fishing message board I used to frequent has just gotten out of control with political bickering, personal attacks and whining. Friendly debate where facts are exchanged is one thing but I can't really tolerate the back and forth personal insults that have increased on some of the other forums.

Things were so much better when we only exaggerated about our fishing trips, … afterall, Bill Dance taught us to get that fish close to the camera

 

[4WD]

3 of the biggest problems:

Confirmation bias is everywhere on this site
Testosterone overload (mostly male interests)
Exaggeration is thick

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

What ... you mean people can't just make statements without any proof/links when asked to back it up, and everyone should just believe them (ie, ice cubes actually don't melt when they turn to water, the earth is flat). Then when proof is shown from valid sources, it's just discounted as bogus information.

Wow, that's right up there with people posting links to things that are inaccurate, misapplied, unvetted etc. ( as if a link itself is some measurement of fact or truth to be accepted at the expense of everything else) and don't have the personal knowledge for a respectful and intelligent conversation so they just throw tantrums and obfuscate until the lock comes so they can run and hide until the next time.

Those types usually resort to hiding their own personal ignorance behind their arrogance in very subtle ways.

Those types are also here in abundance

 

[Mtnhaul]

So, instead of complaining, notify us on those posts... be part of the solution.

I wasn't complaining. Just an observation. I appreciate that there are tons of posts and that mods can't be everywhere at once.