Originally Posted By: CT8
Pleats tear because of minimal quality standards.
Planned Obsolescence!
Respectfully,
Pajero!
Pleats tear because of minimal quality standards.
Planned Obsolescence!
Respectfully,
Pajero!
How/Why The Pleats Tear
- Thread starter BlueOvalFitter
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Originally Posted By: WellOiled
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
0w-20 starting right now in this province will be significantly thicker than a monograde 40 in your weather right now. Perhaps North American Mann+Hummel part numbers should be designated to only be shipped to Mexico or other locales closer to the equator.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
0w-20 starting right now in this province will be significantly thicker than a monograde 40 in your weather right now. Perhaps North American Mann+Hummel part numbers should be designated to only be shipped to Mexico or other locales closer to the equator.
Perhaps paper is not the best material to use for an oil filter.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
0w-20 starting right now in this province will be significantly thicker than a monograde 40 in your weather right now. Perhaps North American Mann+Hummel part numbers should be designated to only be shipped to Mexico or other locales closer to the equator.
Garak - Oddly enough, I had one tear using 5W30 and it rarely freezes here. Filter looked relatively clean too.
Stock answer: weak filter media combined with wide pleat spacing near the seam.
I should have been more specific with the oil weight remark.
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
0w-20 starting right now in this province will be significantly thicker than a monograde 40 in your weather right now. Perhaps North American Mann+Hummel part numbers should be designated to only be shipped to Mexico or other locales closer to the equator.
Garak - Oddly enough, I had one tear using 5W30 and it rarely freezes here. Filter looked relatively clean too.
Stock answer: weak filter media combined with wide pleat spacing near the seam.
I should have been more specific with the oil weight remark.
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
#2 is the only thing I agree with.
All other points are speculation.
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
#2 is the only thing I agree with.
All other points are speculation.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
#2 is the only thing I agree with.
All other points are speculation.
Gotta have #1 along with #2 to get a failure. Every torn filter posted here showed the wide pleats at the seam, and that is where the failures had occurred in every case. Items #3 a-e can add stress to the already bad combination of combining 1+2.
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
#2 is the only thing I agree with.
All other points are speculation.
Gotta have #1 along with #2 to get a failure. Every torn filter posted here showed the wide pleats at the seam, and that is where the failures had occurred in every case. Items #3 a-e can add stress to the already bad combination of combining 1+2.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
#2 is the only thing I agree with.
All other points are speculation.
Gotta have #1 along with #2 to get a failure. Every torn filter posted here showed the wide pleats at the seam, and that is where the failures had occurred in every case. Items #3 a-e can add stress to the already bad combination of combining 1+2.
We've seen many filters with wide seams and no tears.
That said, it just goes back to poor quality/ brittle media.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
#2 is the only thing I agree with.
All other points are speculation.
Gotta have #1 along with #2 to get a failure. Every torn filter posted here showed the wide pleats at the seam, and that is where the failures had occurred in every case. Items #3 a-e can add stress to the already bad combination of combining 1+2.
We've seen many filters with wide seams and no tears.
That said, it just goes back to poor quality/ brittle media.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
#2 is the only thing I agree with.
All other points are speculation.
Gotta have #1 along with #2 to get a failure. Every torn filter posted here showed the wide pleats at the seam, and that is where the failures had occurred in every case. Items #3 a-e can add stress to the already bad combination of combining 1+2.
Items in #3 —> the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
1. The wide pleat spacing near the seam creates a point(s) of maximum stress.
2. Weak brittle media.
3. Use conditions
a) DP across the filter element increases as the filter loads up with dirt.
b) Cold oil has a high viscosity. The viscosity increases with decreasing temperature. DP across the filter element will be higher with cold oil than hot oil.
c) User revs the engine during cold starts. DP across the filter element will be higher at high RPMs.
d) Lack of maintenance: if the bypass valve is slow opening due to varnish or other deposits, then additional stresses can be applied to the media.
e) Choice of oil weight: Using an oil weight greater than what is specified for the engine.
Combine all these factors and it is not difficult to see why the pleats can and sometimes do tear.
#2 is the only thing I agree with.
All other points are speculation.
Gotta have #1 along with #2 to get a failure. Every torn filter posted here showed the wide pleats at the seam, and that is where the failures had occurred in every case. Items #3 a-e can add stress to the already bad combination of combining 1+2.
Items in #3 —> the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
We've seen many filters with wide seams and no tears.
That said, it just goes back to poor quality/ brittle media.
That's because the media isn't brittle and weak in those filters if it's not a Purolator. If we see a Purolator with wide spaced pleats without tears, then items 3 a-e were probably not brutal enough to push it to failure. Or the spacing wasn't quite wide enough to cause tearing. The other part of the tearing equation is the amount of delta-p across the pleats, which 3 a-e provides in varied amounts.
We've also seen many Purolators that don't tear because the pleats are not spaced wide enough. But those that tore always had pretty wide pleats at the seam ... therefore you always have to start with #1 combined with #2 to get a failure.
We've seen many filters with wide seams and no tears.
That said, it just goes back to poor quality/ brittle media.
That's because the media isn't brittle and weak in those filters if it's not a Purolator. If we see a Purolator with wide spaced pleats without tears, then items 3 a-e were probably not brutal enough to push it to failure. Or the spacing wasn't quite wide enough to cause tearing. The other part of the tearing equation is the amount of delta-p across the pleats, which 3 a-e provides in varied amounts.
We've also seen many Purolators that don't tear because the pleats are not spaced wide enough. But those that tore always had pretty wide pleats at the seam ... therefore you always have to start with #1 combined with #2 to get a failure.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
We've seen many filters with wide seams and no tears.
That said, it just goes back to poor quality/ brittle media.
That's because the media isn't brittle and weak in those filters if it's not a Purolator. If we see a Purolator with wide spaced pleats without tears, then items 3 a-e were probably not brutal enough to push it to failure. Or the spacing wasn't quite wide enough to cause tearing. The other part of the tearing equation is the amount of delta-p across the pleats, which 3 a-e provides in varied amounts.
We've also seen many Purolators that don't tear because the pleats are not spaced wide enough. But those that tore always had pretty wide pleats at the seam ... therefore you always have to start with #1 combined with #2 to get a failure.
I tried keeping my posts non brand biased. Oh well.
That said, I've seen narrower Purolator filters tear. (*Feel free to do your own research. Too many posts to sift through.)
You are right about one thing; they do always tear at the seam.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
We've seen many filters with wide seams and no tears.
That said, it just goes back to poor quality/ brittle media.
That's because the media isn't brittle and weak in those filters if it's not a Purolator. If we see a Purolator with wide spaced pleats without tears, then items 3 a-e were probably not brutal enough to push it to failure. Or the spacing wasn't quite wide enough to cause tearing. The other part of the tearing equation is the amount of delta-p across the pleats, which 3 a-e provides in varied amounts.
We've also seen many Purolators that don't tear because the pleats are not spaced wide enough. But those that tore always had pretty wide pleats at the seam ... therefore you always have to start with #1 combined with #2 to get a failure.
I tried keeping my posts non brand biased. Oh well.
That said, I've seen narrower Purolator filters tear. (*Feel free to do your own research. Too many posts to sift through.)
You are right about one thing; they do always tear at the seam.
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Originally Posted By: jongies3
What gets me is there's still a percentage of people on BITOG that still use these.. It's an even bigger bummer that M&H got ahold of WIX, now it's only a matter of time before the quality of those falls flat.
EU manufactured M+H filters are some of the best money can buy. WIX will be fine IMO.
What gets me is there's still a percentage of people on BITOG that still use these.. It's an even bigger bummer that M&H got ahold of WIX, now it's only a matter of time before the quality of those falls flat.
EU manufactured M+H filters are some of the best money can buy. WIX will be fine IMO.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I tried keeping my posts non brand biased. Oh well.
Let's not hide the elephant in the room. I can't remember the last time I saw (if ever) an non-Purolator made filter that tore media due to wide open pleats at the seam.
I tried keeping my posts non brand biased. Oh well.
Let's not hide the elephant in the room. I can't remember the last time I saw (if ever) an non-Purolator made filter that tore media due to wide open pleats at the seam.
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Garak - Oddly enough, I had one tear using 5W30 and it rarely freezes here. Filter looked relatively clean too.
Stock answer: weak filter media combined with wide pleat spacing near the seam.
I wouldn't be surprised at all that such a thing happened to you, despite the viscosity and temperature, and your assessment matches what many people here who cut these apart have said. I just wish it weren't the case. At one time, the Bosch Premiums for the G37 were a very smoking deal.
Garak - Oddly enough, I had one tear using 5W30 and it rarely freezes here. Filter looked relatively clean too.
Stock answer: weak filter media combined with wide pleat spacing near the seam.
I wouldn't be surprised at all that such a thing happened to you, despite the viscosity and temperature, and your assessment matches what many people here who cut these apart have said. I just wish it weren't the case. At one time, the Bosch Premiums for the G37 were a very smoking deal.
Too much DP and rigidity at the baseplate for the fibers to stay together. I think the maker put too much synthetic fibers in the mix. Other makers put a mesh behind synthetic filters. Maybe it is the bonding agent. In any case the old American Purolator had a great product. Don't fix what isn't broken rule applies. What bothers me is that thousands of people every day are having low end MH filters put on their cars and some will have a hole in them. Sort of not right.
Both the white can Purolator Classic filters with 97.5% efficiency @20 microns and the yellow grippy can PureOne filters advertised plain cellulose media IIRC, not synthetic blend of any sort, and these were the most prevalent residents of Stu_Rock's spreadsheet.
Don't see how it's the bonding agent, that stuff is doing its job unless the media pulls out of it during use, and I haven't seen pics of that.
Don't see how it's the bonding agent, that stuff is doing its job unless the media pulls out of it during use, and I haven't seen pics of that.
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Both the white can Purolator Classic filters with 97.5% efficiency @20 microns and the yellow grippy can PureOne filters advertised plain cellulose media IIRC, not synthetic blend of any sort, and these were the most prevalent residents of Stu_Rock's spreadsheet.
Don't see how it's the bonding agent, that stuff is doing its job unless the media pulls out of it during use, and I haven't seen pics of that.
The bonding agent that holds the media together, not the baseplate glue. They didn't tear in the old days, something was changed, and all the synthetics have mesh for a reason. That leads to the conclusion they either added too much synthetic or changed the bonding resin, or both, combined with wide pleats. It would be hard to know what the spreadsheet filters were made of based on a website claim at any particular time. It's news to me Purolator advertised 100% cellulose on the Classic and P1. I'm sure they were in the decades long before the tearing issue.
Both the white can Purolator Classic filters with 97.5% efficiency @20 microns and the yellow grippy can PureOne filters advertised plain cellulose media IIRC, not synthetic blend of any sort, and these were the most prevalent residents of Stu_Rock's spreadsheet.
Don't see how it's the bonding agent, that stuff is doing its job unless the media pulls out of it during use, and I haven't seen pics of that.
The bonding agent that holds the media together, not the baseplate glue. They didn't tear in the old days, something was changed, and all the synthetics have mesh for a reason. That leads to the conclusion they either added too much synthetic or changed the bonding resin, or both, combined with wide pleats. It would be hard to know what the spreadsheet filters were made of based on a website claim at any particular time. It's news to me Purolator advertised 100% cellulose on the Classic and P1. I'm sure they were in the decades long before the tearing issue.
The potting material is OK! The tears occur in the media. The media is brittle and weak.
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