Ethiopian ET302 Crash.

[john_pifer]

Countries that have grounded the MAX-8 so far:

https://www.businessinsider.com/eth...-have-grounded-the-boeing-737-max-2019-3

It doesn't really surprise me that some of the 3rd world countries have banned the type. But it is a little surprising that Australia, the UK, and Germany have, while Canada and the US haven't.

Do the North American airlines think they have a better understanding of what's caused these 2 crashes?

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted by john_pifer
Countries that have grounded the MAX-8 so far:

https://www.businessinsider.com/eth...-have-grounded-the-boeing-737-max-2019-3

It doesn't really surprise me that some of the 3rd world countries have banned the type. But it is a little surprising that Australia, the UK, and Germany have, while Canada and the US haven't.

Do the North American airlines think they have a better understanding of what's caused these 2 crashes?



I think that North American regulatory agencies are a bit less prone to hysteria and mass speculation.

Perhaps they have a bit more faith in their pilots, since the requirements are more strict for First Officers?

 

[JustN89]

Originally Posted by john_pifer
Countries that have grounded the MAX-8 so far:

https://www.businessinsider.com/eth...-have-grounded-the-boeing-737-max-2019-3

It doesn't really surprise me that some of the 3rd world countries have banned the type. But it is a little surprising that Australia, the UK, and Germany have, while Canada and the US haven't.

Do the North American airlines think they have a better understanding of what's caused these 2 crashes?


No one wanted to be the first, but now no one wants to be the last.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Might also be a kick in the ribs from the politicians owned by Airbus.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Might also be a kick in the ribs from the politicians owned by Airbus.


Just from some of the commentary I see all the time from Europeans and other non-Americans on some of the aviation Facebook pages, etc, there's definitely a Boeing vs. Airbus rivalry, with Americans tending to make comments like "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going", and the non-Americans disparaging Boeing and supporting Airbus.

Without getting too P, I definitely agree with you that P plays a role.

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Might also be a kick in the ribs from the politicians owned by Airbus.


Just from some of the commentary I see all the time from Europeans and other non-Americans on some of the aviation Facebook pages, etc, there's definitely a Boeing vs. Airbus rivalry, with Americans tending to make comments like "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going", and the non-Americans disparaging Boeing and supporting Airbus.

Without getting too P, I definitely agree with you that P plays a role.


What's the difference between an Airbus and a chain saw?
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.
.
.
.
.
.
.
About 400 trees a minute.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Might also be a kick in the ribs from the politicians owned by Airbus.


Just from some of the commentary I see all the time from Europeans and other non-Americans on some of the aviation Facebook pages, etc, there's definitely a Boeing vs. Airbus rivalry, with Americans tending to make comments like "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going", and the non-Americans disparaging Boeing and supporting Airbus.

Without getting too P, I definitely agree with you that P plays a role.





I will bet that the vast majority of passengers see Boeing on the Dreamliner aircraft they are boarding and tell themselves it's US made. Little do they know that Mitsubishi and Kawasaki have a huge part in building that aircraft along with a few other companies worldwide.

So much for that part of the A vs B argument.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by Brigadier

What's the difference between an Airbus and a chain saw?

About 400 trees a minute.

I've recently called the Airbus A320 series the Prius of the skies. Both seem like heavily computer controlled appliances for their given jobs and both are the preferred tools for disrupting transportation(legacy carriers and the point-to-point model for the former, taxis for the latter).

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by PimTac


I will bet that the vast majority of passengers see Boeing on the Dreamliner aircraft they are boarding and tell themselves it's US made. Little do they know that Mitsubishi and Kawasaki have a huge part in building that aircraft along with a few other companies worldwide.

So much for that part of the A vs B argument.

You forgot Subaru as well.

The 787 also uses some French, German and Italian parts in it as well. GE and Snecma have been partners for a long time.

And Airbus does use quite a bit of GE/UTC/Honeywell in their planes. While Airbus is increasingly going all-in with Rolls-Royce, the A320 series does offer French-American(CFM) on both versions, the other engine choice UTC is involved in. The Japanese have been working with Airbus a little more for their structural fuselage parts, but Snecma and BAE Systems(who also supplies the US military) is still their largest suppliers.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by nthach

I've recently called the Airbus A320 series the Prius of the skies.


Hahahahahaha! You may be correct. But it seems the passenger MPG might be below other high end rivals. The Prius is king when it comes to mpg

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by PimTac


I will bet that the vast majority of passengers see Boeing on the Dreamliner aircraft they are boarding and tell themselves it's US made. Little do they know that Mitsubishi and Kawasaki have a huge part in building that aircraft along with a few other companies worldwide.

So much for that part of the A vs B argument.

You forgot Subaru as well.

The 787 also uses some French, German and Italian parts in it as well. GE and Snecma have been partners for a long time.

And Airbus does use quite a bit of GE/UTC/Honeywell in their planes. While Airbus is increasingly going all-in with Rolls-Royce, the A320 series does offer French-American(CFM) on both versions, the other engine choice UTC is involved in. The Japanese have been working with Airbus a little more for their structural fuselage parts, but Snecma and BAE Systems(who also supplies the US military) is still their largest suppliers.




I didn't know about the Subaru connection. I did know they have a aerospace division. UAVs are a big thing with them.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

My speculative thoughts are a tug-a-war between the uninformed pilots and MCAS...

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
My speculative thoughts are a tug-a-war between the uninformed pilots and MCAS...


+1

 

[Coventry]

U.S pilots on at least two flights have reported that MCAS caused their 737 MAX to drop the nose suddenly.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted by Coventry
U.S pilots on at least two flights have reported that MCAS caused their 737 MAX to drop the nose suddenly.


And?

 

[Exhaustgases]

Questions that I'd like to ask someone that really knows. When you turn off any thing on that instrument panel or on the yoke, does that cause a relay to completely disconnect the power from what ever it is you are commanding off? Now I will answer that, NO. Maybe on an old DC3 or DC7 it did, now a computer runs or controls all inputs from pilots, just like many new cars, the driver has control over nothing, unless he has installed a huge disconnect switch that turns off all power feeding everything. All new passenger aircraft are fly by wire, that is by computer control. There are no longer mechanical connections to the control surfaces that link to a control that the pilot operates independent from the computer system. So there are a few not so nice things that can happen.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Questions that I'd like to ask someone that really knows. When you turn off any thing on that instrument panel or on the yoke, does that cause a relay to completely disconnect the power from what ever it is you are commanding off? Now I will answer that, NO. Maybe on an old DC3 or DC7 it did, now a computer runs or controls all inputs from pilots, just like many new cars, the driver has control over nothing, unless he has installed a huge disconnect switch that turns off all power feeding everything. All new passenger aircraft are fly by wire, that is by computer control. There are no longer mechanical connections to the control surfaces that link to a control that the pilot operates independent from the computer system. So there are a few not so nice things that can happen.


Not all new airliners are totally FBW. Maybe the ones that are a brand-new design, but there are still some being produced (like the Embraer ERJ, that I work on), that aren't completely FBW.

For example, on the E-Jets (Embraer 170/175/190/195), pitch and yaw control are FBW, but roll control is still good, old-fashioned cables that actuate electrohydraulic power control units (PCUs).

Now, the new generation of E-Jets, the E2, IS all FBW. But the current model ERJ is still in production.

Is the 737 Max-8 all FBW?

 

[Coventry]

Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by Coventry
U.S pilots on at least two flights have reported that MCAS caused their 737 MAX to drop the nose suddenly.


And?


Self explanatory

 

[billt460]

I seem to remember a couple of fatal, (no survivors), 737 accidents that happened with several years in between, similar to this. (I'm sure Astro remembers both, and he can feel free to add or correct anything I may have gotten wrong here). Both ended up being caused by the same thing. One happened in Colorado Springs, and the other 3 or 4 years later in Pennsylvania. They never solved the Colorado Springs crash until after the Pennsylvania crash happened.

If I remember correctly, it was caused by a faulty designed hydraulic valve. That somehow managed to reverse the rudder pedal input. But only sometimes under certain rare conditions. But all 737's continued to fly with that bad valve for several years in between both crashes. Because they never discovered it until after the Pennsylvania crash. (Both were similar accidents, going in near vertically).

I hope this doesn't turn into the same thing. Not being able to solve 2 non survivable crashes involving the same aircraft is scary. (Assuming they were both caused by the same thing). And that it turns out to be mechanical. Now it's just too early to tell.

They didn't ground the 737 after the Colorado Springs crash, because some believed at the time it might have been weather related. (Rolling wind shear off the mountains, or some such occurrence). Not to mention it would have been economically devastating to so many airlines worldwide, and would have made a mess of airline travel. This appears to be shaping up differently. That said, these 2 crashes involving the 737 Max aircraft happened months in between... Not years.

That was unbelievably good work finding that bad valve, and solving the problem once and for all. I hope the same thing happens here... Assuming something in the aircraft is faulty.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted by Coventry

Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by Coventry
U.S pilots on at least two flights have reported that MCAS caused their 737 MAX to drop the nose suddenly.


And?


Self explanatory


Not really.

What point are you trying to make?

How much experience do you have flying Boeing airplanes?