Encouraging pansies ...

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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I guess a 5 degF ambient temp delta is what separates the men from the boys, as it were.


In Michigan, opening day of deer and trout season also ranks high as reason to miss school or work. How dare they!


Yup.

Thats heritage combined with manhood - perfectly excusable day off with a letter from dad. As long as the work gets done - no foul.

In an office culture missing work because of moderate cold snap is laughable and disappointing.

If its a work at home culture then its no biggie.


UD
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
the reality is the line to cold temps being dangerous is at temps that aren't as cold as you think. And if you live in a place that sees that once or twice a winter, that is a lot different than a place that lives with it for months.


Related to this specific point, I remember reading the results of a study that looked at deaths in winter weather and it found what you're mentioning.

Deaths happened when the temperature dropped significantly from the normal lows that those people were used to.

Maybe we are seeing cases where public officials - gasp - are actually making informed decisions on public health and safety issues.
 
Speaking of pansies my kids were off Th and Fri due to that "massive" storm which was a blizzard Th and Friday just downright cold 5F and high wind 20-35MPH gust. I used weather as excuse to bail on working two days due our "lost internet".

So what did we do SKI!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 1-2"/hr snow drop Th was great conditions but the occasional whiteout was a hard but temp was a balmy 27F. Friday was rough with 5F but fresh powder and 35MPH gusts!

I taught my two girls (10 & 12) seize the day and the rare powder(ice normally) in New England.
 
I see lots of references along the lines of not that cold, moderate cold snap etc...

So, lets put things in perspective...

For Indianapolis, the low for date in question tied the record low at -12F, a record going back to 1887. -12F for Indianapolis puts it in the 30 coldest days in Indianapolis history dating back to 1884. Windchills that morning were projected to be as low as -35F. Indianapolis Schools were cancelled, among others, due to the cold temps and windchills. So for some of us, say Minnesotans, not that cold. For Indianapolis, it was cold. Deny the statistics if you want, but it was.

Many districts in Minnesota do have thresholds for canceling schools. For many in the Twin Cities, at temps of -25F or windchills of -35 or -40F or below, we cancel school. Oftentimes, this is based on the forecast, and sometimes predicting cold weather can be tricky - it often depends on fresh snowcover and clear skies that don't always develop. We had a day cancelled for cold last year on the forecast, then the temp didn't get as cold as predicted that night. Two days later, we didn't cancel, even though it ended up being colder that morning but the forecast was not that cold.

In the end, the OP is of the opinion everyone else is a wimp since he could make it work. I get the feeling that it wouldn't matter where a threshold for his company allowing work from home exists - the mere fact one exists at all make him superior to his fellow employees since he made it to work...

Even the national weather service acknowledges that local extremes matter - did you know that the thresholds for wind chill advisorys and warnings are different depending on where in the US you are? Explicitly in acknowledgement that extreme cold means different things in different places.

Go ahead an minimize the low temps as being what they were. I'm secure enough in my judgement to decide what is worth me venturing out and what isn't and I trust my fellow employee to do the same. This year I stayed home and worked at -16F one morning as black ice was pretty bad. A few years earlier, I went work at -35F because I had to... All about choices and level of risk. You do what works for you, I'll do what works for me, and promise not call you a pansy for making a good choice for you.
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I guess a 5 degF ambient temp delta is what separates the men from the boys, as it were.


In Michigan, opening day of deer and trout season also ranks high as reason to miss school or work. How dare they!

That's heritage combined with manhood

No offense whatsoever UncleDave(I love your battery expertise), but I have to chuckle a bit about the manhood comment. Following mngopher's experience based lead, with an outdoor career/lifestyle and having raised my family very old school (me=career, wife=household/child rearing) I respect today's man who not only has a career, but also vacuums, does laundry, shops, and changes diapers. My dad used to chastise me if I even tried to do dishes!

The John Wayne persona of manliness is often just a facade. Men insecure to expose any soft underbelly. mngopher's point is a good one.

18.gif
The horse has been pummeled into a pancake.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I guess a 5 degF ambient temp delta is what separates the men from the boys, as it were.


In Michigan, opening day of deer and trout season also ranks high as reason to miss school or work. How dare they!

That's heritage combined with manhood

No offense whatsoever UncleDave(I love your battery expertise), but I have to chuckle a bit about the manhood comment. Following mngopher's experience based lead, with an outdoor career/lifestyle and having raised my family very old school (me=career, wife=household/child rearing) I respect today's man who not only has a career, but also vacuums, does laundry, shops, and changes diapers. My dad used to chastise me if I even tried to do dishes!

The John Wayne persona of manliness is often just a facade. Men insecure to expose any soft underbelly. mngopher's point is a good one.

18.gif
The horse has been pummeled into a pancake.


In my opinion, you and others are taking the thread a bit too seriously in being overly concerned about phrases and words.

Fact is, people today....especially men, HAVE softened up a bit and become feminized. This is a cultural thing that has been a purposeful act. I find it a little troubling that some men don't see that. But it's your life. As for having "respect" for them doing traditionally female tasks in the household? No problem to lend a hand now and then. But as a habit and regular duty to perform these tasks? No. It's the wife/mothers duty. Females are to nurture the family and keep the "nest" as a refuge from the outside world....and men are to defend, protect, and provide for that home/family. That is how nature designed it. This is evident in our physical and psychological makeup.

John Wayne wasn't a facade. While his version of manhood has been under attack for decades, it still survives among those that have not become feminized by our culture. If you want to see a version of what "men" are supposed to be these days....look no further than the typical and celebrated metrosexuals you see running the nightly talk shows.
 
Ugh, speaking of manhood, it dawned on me this weekend: wife is doing all this planning for a new house, and I strongly suspect she'll do more planning, deciding and possibly even work on it that I will. 50 minute commute to work + full time job versus stay at home mom? It was a sobering moment for me.
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
I see lots of references along the lines of not that cold, moderate cold snap etc...

So, lets put things in perspective...

For Indianapolis, the low for date in question tied the record low at -12F, a record going back to 1887. -12F for Indianapolis puts it in the 30 coldest days in Indianapolis history dating back to 1884. Windchills that morning were projected to be as low as -35F. Indianapolis Schools were cancelled, among others, due to the cold temps and windchills. So for some of us, say Minnesotans, not that cold. For Indianapolis, it was cold. Deny the statistics if you want, but it was.

Many districts in Minnesota do have thresholds for canceling schools. For many in the Twin Cities, at temps of -25F or windchills of -35 or -40F or below, we cancel school. Oftentimes, this is based on the forecast, and sometimes predicting cold weather can be tricky - it often depends on fresh snowcover and clear skies that don't always develop. We had a day cancelled for cold last year on the forecast, then the temp didn't get as cold as predicted that night. Two days later, we didn't cancel, even though it ended up being colder that morning but the forecast was not that cold.

In the end, the OP is of the opinion everyone else is a wimp since he could make it work. I get the feeling that it wouldn't matter where a threshold for his company allowing work from home exists - the mere fact one exists at all make him superior to his fellow employees since he made it to work...

Even the national weather service acknowledges that local extremes matter - did you know that the thresholds for wind chill advisorys and warnings are different depending on where in the US you are? Explicitly in acknowledgement that extreme cold means different things in different places.

Go ahead an minimize the low temps as being what they were. I'm secure enough in my judgement to decide what is worth me venturing out and what isn't and I trust my fellow employee to do the same. This year I stayed home and worked at -16F one morning as black ice was pretty bad. A few years earlier, I went work at -35F because I had to... All about choices and level of risk. You do what works for you, I'll do what works for me, and promise not call you a pansy for making a good choice for you.



Indy area gets below zero a few days EVERY YEAR. This isn't Memphis or Atlanta. We're not strangers to temps below zero by any stretch of the imagination. Our record low was in 1994; -36F in Whiteland (just south of Indy).

Sure - it was cold. But so what? "Cold" is fairly easy to overcome with planning and layers of clothes! Tuesday it was -12F and work was called off. Friday it was -6F and not one peep was said. Both clear days with clear roads. Man up, put on an extra layer, go out and start the car up a bit early, and motor on.

Yes - I'm perfectly comfortable calling folks "pansies" (or whimps, or slackers, or whatever you all think is the most appropriate derogatory, but not crude, comment which can be made).
Life is not a participation trophy; EARN IT!
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
I see lots of references along the lines of not that cold, moderate cold snap etc...

So, lets put things in perspective...

For Indianapolis, the low for date in question tied the record low at -12F, a record going back to 1887. -12F for Indianapolis puts it in the 30 coldest days in Indianapolis history dating back to 1884. Windchills that morning were projected to be as low as -35F. Indianapolis Schools were cancelled, among others, due to the cold temps and windchills. So for some of us, say Minnesotans, not that cold. For Indianapolis, it was cold. Deny the statistics if you want, but it was.

Many districts in Minnesota do have thresholds for canceling schools. For many in the Twin Cities, at temps of -25F or windchills of -35 or -40F or below, we cancel school. Oftentimes, this is based on the forecast, and sometimes predicting cold weather can be tricky - it often depends on fresh snowcover and clear skies that don't always develop. We had a day cancelled for cold last year on the forecast, then the temp didn't get as cold as predicted that night. Two days later, we didn't cancel, even though it ended up being colder that morning but the forecast was not that cold.

In the end, the OP is of the opinion everyone else is a wimp since he could make it work. I get the feeling that it wouldn't matter where a threshold for his company allowing work from home exists - the mere fact one exists at all make him superior to his fellow employees since he made it to work...

Even the national weather service acknowledges that local extremes matter - did you know that the thresholds for wind chill advisorys and warnings are different depending on where in the US you are? Explicitly in acknowledgement that extreme cold means different things in different places.

Go ahead an minimize the low temps as being what they were. I'm secure enough in my judgement to decide what is worth me venturing out and what isn't and I trust my fellow employee to do the same. This year I stayed home and worked at -16F one morning as black ice was pretty bad. A few years earlier, I went work at -35F because I had to... All about choices and level of risk. You do what works for you, I'll do what works for me, and promise not call you a pansy for making a good choice for you.



Indy area gets below zero a few days EVERY YEAR. This isn't Memphis or Atlanta. We're not strangers to temps below zero by any stretch of the imagination. Our record low was in 1994; -36F in Whiteland (just south of Indy).

Sure - it was cold. But so what? "Cold" is fairly easy to overcome with planning and layers of clothes! Tuesday it was -12F and work was called off. Friday it was -6F and not one peep was said. Both clear days with clear roads. Man up, put on an extra layer, go out and start the car up a bit early, and motor on.

Yes - I'm perfectly comfortable calling folks "pansies" (or whimps, or slackers, or whatever you all think is the most appropriate derogatory, but not crude, comment which can be made).
Life is not a participation trophy; EARN IT!
grin2.gif








One thing I can say to this....it will never make life boring!!
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
No offense whatsoever UncleDave(I love your battery expertise), but I have to chuckle a bit about the manhood comment. Following mngopher's experience based lead, with an outdoor career/lifestyle and having raised my family very old school (me=career, wife=household/child rearing) I respect today's man who not only has a career, but also vacuums, does laundry, shops, and changes diapers. My dad used to chastise me if I even tried to do dishes!

The John Wayne persona of manliness is often just a facade. Men insecure to expose any soft underbelly. mngopher's point is a good one.

18.gif
The horse has been pummeled into a pancake.


My father refused to help with any housework, even when he was out of work for years and my mother worked 3 jobs to keep our family afloat. Mom was supposed to cook and clean while working full time during the day and waitressing at night and on the weekends.
That didn't make him a man...that made him a lazy bum. In his defense, he was probably suffering from depression at the time, but his attitude still made for a horrible home life for us kids and tremendous stress for our mother. Maybe him taking it easy for a few years let him live into his 80s while his severely stressed wife didn't make it to 60.
 
Sister and I did everything to help our working mom.
I started mowing the lawn, shoveling snow and folding my own laundry when I was 7.
I remember asking my mom why it was my job and not hers or dads and that answer I got was " thats why I had a son".

Im 51 so I grew up pre cell phones and personal computers.

The only excuse for missing work because of weather was that you crashed on the way in or are partially there and waiting for the roads to be cleared and will ultimately show up. I made many phone calls from roadside establishments to report my progress to the boss as to my whereabouts. But staying home because it was cold wasn't an option.

Different work ethic. Different times for sure.

UD
 
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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
No offense whatsoever UncleDave(I love your battery expertise), but I have to chuckle a bit about the manhood comment. Following mngopher's experience based lead, with an outdoor career/lifestyle and having raised my family very old school (me=career, wife=household/child rearing) I respect today's man who not only has a career, but also vacuums, does laundry, shops, and changes diapers. My dad used to chastise me if I even tried to do dishes!

The John Wayne persona of manliness is often just a facade. Men insecure to expose any soft underbelly. mngopher's point is a good one.

18.gif
The horse has been pummeled into a pancake.


My father refused to help with any housework, even when he was out of work for years and my mother worked 3 jobs to keep our family afloat. Mom was supposed to cook and clean while working full time during the day and waitressing at night and on the weekends.
That didn't make him a man...that made him a lazy bum. In his defense, he was probably suffering from depression at the time, but his attitude still made for a horrible home life for us kids and tremendous stress for our mother. Maybe him taking it easy for a few years let him live into his 80s while his severely stressed wife didn't make it to 60.


Your father WAS a bum. And your mother? A hard working saint. Your poor mom....must have been a real decent lady.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg

Your father WAS a bum. And your mother? A hard working saint. Your poor mom....must have been a real decent lady.


In his defense, dad did get it back together after that bad period and ended up putting about 20 years working for a school district before he retired in his mid 70s. He also had a lot of tragedy in his family life and was a combat vet (WWII European theater), so I try hard to not judge him too harshly.
But, yeah, when a guy's family is on the very edge of falling apart and he's sitting in a chair drinking beer and smoking whenever he's not sleeping...I still can't totally excuse that. He wouldn't even look for a job because he was too proud to take a step down from where he had been in his work life...a machinery company he had worked for since before WWII folded in the early '70s and there was no way he was going find another position like he had lost. His mother was the owner's housekeeper and dad got hired out of high school because the guy liked him.
Mom was all about us kids and would sacrifice anything to provide for us. I still remember how I would beg her to stay home when I was sick or dad was in an especially bad mood and she would cry because she needed to go to yet another job to pay the bills...I guess this lasted maybe 3 years, but I felt like forever to a little boy.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: andrewg

Your father WAS a bum. And your mother? A hard working saint. Your poor mom....must have been a real decent lady.


In his defense, dad did get it back together after that bad period and ended up putting about 20 years working for a school district before he retired in his mid 70s. He also had a lot of tragedy in his family life and was a combat vet (WWII European theater), so I try hard to not judge him too harshly.
But, yeah, when a guy's family is on the very edge of falling apart and he's sitting in a chair drinking beer and smoking whenever he's not sleeping...I still can't totally excuse that. He wouldn't even look for a job because he was too proud to take a step down from where he had been in his work life...a machinery company he had worked for since before WWII folded in the early '70s and there was no way he was going find another position like he had lost. His mother was the owner's housekeeper and dad got hired out of high school because the guy liked him.
Mom was all about us kids and would sacrifice anything to provide for us. I still remember how I would beg her to stay home when I was sick or dad was in an especially bad mood and she would cry because she needed to go to yet another job to pay the bills...I guess this lasted maybe 3 years, but I felt like forever to a little boy.


Sorry if I was a bit harsh about your father. I didn't know all the other possible factors.

Your mother sounds like she was a truly great lady.
 
Since someone couldn't connect the dots.

The question was asked, what would Minnesotans (among others) do if it was as cold as it was in Indy.

I pointed out that many school districts close school (or delay starts) if the wind chill is forecast to be -35F or colder.

Wind chills in Indy were forecast to be as cold as -35F that morning.

Go ahead and argue it wasn't cold, but that is in the temp range where schools would close in Minnesota, where you claim we never would do something so pansyish...

The mere fact anyone would not be as manly as the OP seems to be the issue, facts or not. Those pesky facts...
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Since someone couldn't connect the dots.

The question was asked, what would Minnesotans (among others) do if it was as cold as it was in Indy.

I pointed out that many school districts close school (or delay starts) if the wind chill is forecast to be -35F or colder.

Wind chills in Indy were forecast to be as cold as -35F that morning.

Go ahead and argue it wasn't cold, but that is in the temp range where schools would close in Minnesota, where you claim we never would do something so pansyish...

The mere fact anyone would not be as manly as the OP seems to be the issue, facts or not. Those pesky facts...



And after never missing a winter day’s work - they all did 16 hour days cutting pulpwood in Mississippi in July …
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Since someone couldn't connect the dots.

The question was asked, what would Minnesotans (among others) do if it was as cold as it was in Indy.

I pointed out that many school districts close school (or delay starts) if the wind chill is forecast to be -35F or colder.

Wind chills in Indy were forecast to be as cold as -35F that morning.

Go ahead and argue it wasn't cold, but that is in the temp range where schools would close in Minnesota, where you claim we never would do something so pansyish...

The mere fact anyone would not be as manly as the OP seems to be the issue, facts or not. Those pesky facts...




These conditions are not insurmountable.
Cops, firemen, EMTs, linemen all went outside; they prepared for the weather.
Kids, indeed, also played outside. Just because school was cancelled does not mean all kids stayed indoors. Our neighbor kids played outside that day; they dressed for success.
Farmers still had to go outside to care for livestock; they dressed for the weather.
People going to work, and starting their cars, only need to prepare for the conditions; make the extra effort.
But our mentality now is that "ohhhhhh ... it's cold .... we can't succeed ... we'll just give up and quit ...."

The bomb-cyclone out east a few days ago? THAT was a great reason to cancel stuff and stay inside!
The "cold" in Indy a few days ago? That's just lazy.

We'll agree to disagree.
 
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Originally Posted By: MNgopher
The question was asked, what would Minnesotans (among others) do if it was as cold as it was in Indy.

I pointed out that many school districts close school (or delay starts) if the wind chill is forecast to be -35F or colder.

Here, they will shut down school bus service at some predetermined point, windchill or temperature, I forget which. Blizzards will also shut the service down. However, I never once got a day off school because of the weather, with mornings below -40, even. As a kid, I lived four blocks from the elementary school, so there were no excuses.
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