Encouraging pansies ...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
... Get up early, get dressed extra warm, plan for potential obstacles, and get your butt to work!

Quit expecting people to take responsibility for the actions (or lack thereof).

I do agree with most of what you say though. I have a 12 yr old and 15 yr old. Seeing what some of their friends say and do makes me wonder if these kids have parents at all.

Since age 26 (1996), I have had a job that if I did not show up for work, it was a major issue for coworkers (in EMS for 18 years, a nurse in the hospital now). Part of what I "signed up for" I guess, but some of the new nurses I have worked with don't seem to understand that if you don't come in one day, the shift is short and makes everyone else's day much harder.
When in EMS, there were days I did not go home if my relief did not show up. Knowing that made it less likely for me to call in, and make plans if the weather was going to be bad.
But then again, I think about others, not just myself.
 
D,

You know as well as I do that there is something to be said for comfortability and productivity.

This very same situation has been fought time and time again, with a clear winner.

Did the stiff British with their hard life in the Old World defeat us with our easy life of greater freedom and equality in the New World? Nope.

Did our "lazy American playboys" and "fat dumb farmers" lose out to the rough life of cold German fascist efficiency?

Did our "dumb fat TV obsessed Americans driving huge cars that look like rocketships" get paved over by Soviet Russia with their "less is more, and nothing is even better" attitude?

Even insides of our military crafts were like 5 star hotels compared to our enemies. What happened to the softness and defeat? Why didn't the more hardscrabble enemy defeat us?

Having it rough just doesn't mean ability or talent.

If anything the USA proved the opposite.

What of the BTFTS? Shouldn't learning to fly in freezing Britain, while getting shot at from the moment you entered the cockpit have made for better pilots than flying in the free skies above Florida?

It didn't.

What about the third world dung holes where you have to walk 12 Mike's for a bucket of water? Those places loaded with superior folks?

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong here, but I am saying there is two sides to this story.

There's nobody here squatting in a cave cracking two rocks together to cook their latest clubbed or speared meal. Even the "toughest" of us have come a long way from just "putting up with it all."
 
Naw - I think some of you are overthinking this and missing the point.


On Tuesday of this week, it was an average of -15F. The engineering leadership of our company made the decision that it was not mandatory to show up, due to the cold. But guess what ... it's -6 this morning (Friday), and yet no announcement of not showing up to work. So what is the litmus test here? -15? -10? -5? zero? Why an arbitrary number? The word around the building is that the workforce was allowed to stay home for the purpose of safety. But where's the threat? Cold is a state of mind; it's about being prepared. My point is that it was clear outside, the streets were easily commutable, and other than it being "cold", there was no reason given to call off work.

What would happen to folks in MN, WI, ND, the UP of MI,upper ME, and about all of central Canada, if the litmus test to stay home were -5F?????? Heck - they'd probably not work for 35% of the year! What if the litmus test were +40F? No one north of the Mason/Dixon line would go to work or school!

There are very good reasons to not show up for work or school; things that are real threats to life and limb which make venturing out truly dangerous. Or, if you're sick, stay home and don't infect others. But it's "too cold" on a clear day with open streets? That's just plain lazy. There are (quite literally) millions of folks who go to work when it's "cold" and do just fine, because they realize that challenge can be met and overcome with just a little extra diligence, planning and effort.

Which is why I say, in my first post, we're teaching people (of all ages), that it's OK to fail and use some thinly veiled lame reason as an excuse. The weather is often blamed for late arrival or outright cancellation, and yet other people in "colder" areas find ways to make life happen in the face of adversity.

Suck it up and plan your day accordingly. Get yourself to work or school on time by making the extra effort! Don't be or encourage a pansy!
 
I'll come at it from a different direction.

Make your own choices about what is safe, needed, and prudent. Ie: Be an adult.

An employer making a decision to allow employees to work from home or not work at all doesn't bother me one bit. Someone making a choice to be there regardless doesn't make them better then everyone else either.

I work for an employer that grants us full decision making power over whether to work from home or not - in other words, we don't have official closures for cold or snow , though we may close some customer functions. As employees, that becomes our decision to make solely. There are exceptions for public safety (Sheriff and Public Works Maintenance - but that is the gig).

In extreme cold, there are issues that pop up. Here, the biggest one is black ice. Car exhaust can freeze directly to the road surface and bridge decks, not be visible, and make for an extremely slippery surface. The more traffic, the bigger an issue it is. When traffic slows down, it becomes a bigger problem. On top of that, normal deicers stop working at all around -5F. It can make commuting in traffic a problem - and I don't hold it against anyone making the choice to not be there. I've chosen twice this year to work from home - road conditions weren't worth the effort or wasted time - and one of those was due to black ice problems.

And believe it or not, we do sometimes close school for cold weather - even in Minnesota. For -15F actual air temp, no. But then again, our average low the last 12 nights has been -11F. It all becomes relative - what is extreme here is different than what is extreme in other climates. Dumb things start to matter - like most cars being sold with block heaters here...

You can dismiss it all you want - but the reality is the line to cold temps being dangerous is at temps that aren't as cold as you think. And if you live in a place that sees that once or twice a winter, that is a lot different than a place that lives with it for months.

Doesn't make anyone a pansy or a snowflake. No need for name calling. No need to feel superior to someone else either. We're used to extreme cold here. Its part of life. Doesn't make me superior to anyone else.
 
When I first looked I thought it was a gardening thread.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: cjcride
When I first looked I thought it was a gardening thread.
smile.gif



My vote goes to Miracle Gro
laugh.gif
 
Something I saw in the news with the Super Bowl coming up here in MN...Among the things that local hospitals are preparing for is an increase in cases of frostbite and hypothermia. There will be thousands of visitors in town who have never experienced the type of winter weather we have here. It's expected that many will show up unprepared for the cold because they simply don't know any better.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I just want to thank you for doing the thankless job. Lots of folks criticize cops,but are the 1st to call 911. I could not do that job.

Thanks for watching out for us nitwits again.


x2

'Specially from a fellow Hoosier.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Naw - I think some of you are overthinking this and missing the point.


On Tuesday of this week, it was an average of -15F. The engineering leadership of our company made the decision that it was not mandatory to show up, due to the cold. But guess what ... it's -6 this morning (Friday), and yet no announcement of not showing up to work. So what is the litmus test here? -15? -10? -5? zero? Why an arbitrary number? The word around the building is that the workforce was allowed to stay home for the purpose of safety. But where's the threat? Cold is a state of mind; it's about being prepared. My point is that it was clear outside, the streets were easily commutable, and other than it being "cold", there was no reason given to call off work.

What would happen to folks in MN, WI, ND, the UP of MI,upper ME, and about all of central Canada, if the litmus test to stay home were -5F?????? Heck - they'd probably not work for 35% of the year! What if the litmus test were +40F? No one north of the Mason/Dixon line would go to work or school!

There are very good reasons to not show up for work or school; things that are real threats to life and limb which make venturing out truly dangerous. Or, if you're sick, stay home and don't infect others. But it's "too cold" on a clear day with open streets? That's just plain lazy. There are (quite literally) millions of folks who go to work when it's "cold" and do just fine, because they realize that challenge can be met and overcome with just a little extra diligence, planning and effort.

Which is why I say, in my first post, we're teaching people (of all ages), that it's OK to fail and use some thinly veiled lame reason as an excuse. The weather is often blamed for late arrival or outright cancellation, and yet other people in "colder" areas find ways to make life happen in the face of adversity.

Suck it up and plan your day accordingly. Get yourself to work or school on time by making the extra effort! Don't be or encourage a pansy!


Ok, few I porting questions then:

1. Does this act cost the business money?

2. Were there and pressing matters or obligations that were not met as a result of this act?

3. Is there a general discipline problem that you feel this act contributes to?

4. Is it possible that this a employee morale decision; going easy one day in order to facilitate good will when a great deal is asked back from the employees?

Not being sarcastic or patronizing. Serious questions.
 
I remember driving my 1966 Mustang GT about 50 miles one way to visit my girlfriend in nearly impossible CT snow conditions. It took a massive amount of effort, sand bags, and 4 studded snow tires, and bit of crafty driving to make that work. Needless to say, if I could do that, I could make it to work, and I did, every time.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I remember driving my 1966 Mustang GT about 50 miles one way to visit my girlfriend in nearly impossible CT snow conditions. It took a massive amount of effort, sand bags, and 4 studded snow tires, and bit of crafty driving to make that work. Needless to say, if I could do that, I could make it to work, and I did, every time.


That is literally a likely story.

grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Naw - I think some of you are overthinking this and missing the point.


On Tuesday of this week, it was an average of -15F. The engineering leadership of our company made the decision that it was not mandatory to show up, due to the cold. But guess what ... it's -6 this morning (Friday), and yet no announcement of not showing up to work. So what is the litmus test here? -15? -10? -5? zero? Why an arbitrary number? The word around the building is that the workforce was allowed to stay home for the purpose of safety. But where's the threat? Cold is a state of mind; it's about being prepared. My point is that it was clear outside, the streets were easily commutable, and other than it being "cold", there was no reason given to call off work.

What would happen to folks in MN, WI, ND, the UP of MI,upper ME, and about all of central Canada, if the litmus test to stay home were -5F?????? Heck - they'd probably not work for 35% of the year! What if the litmus test were +40F? No one north of the Mason/Dixon line would go to work or school!

There are very good reasons to not show up for work or school; things that are real threats to life and limb which make venturing out truly dangerous. Or, if you're sick, stay home and don't infect others. But it's "too cold" on a clear day with open streets? That's just plain lazy. There are (quite literally) millions of folks who go to work when it's "cold" and do just fine, because they realize that challenge can be met and overcome with just a little extra diligence, planning and effort.

Which is why I say, in my first post, we're teaching people (of all ages), that it's OK to fail and use some thinly veiled lame reason as an excuse. The weather is often blamed for late arrival or outright cancellation, and yet other people in "colder" areas find ways to make life happen in the face of adversity.

Suck it up and plan your day accordingly. Get yourself to work or school on time by making the extra effort! Don't be or encourage a pansy!


Ok, few I porting questions then:

1. Does this act cost the business money?

2. Were there and pressing matters or obligations that were not met as a result of this act?

3. Is there a general discipline problem that you feel this act contributes to?

4. Is it possible that this a employee morale decision; going easy one day in order to facilitate good will when a great deal is asked back from the employees?

Not being sarcastic or patronizing. Serious questions.


Those are fair questions:

1) I would estimate that 5% of people came in, the rest stayed home. Of those whom stayed home in my work group, pretty much none of them did anything but a few folks did check/respond to emails (certainly not a full day's work - so yeah there were lost opportunities). I trust that my coworkers whom stayed home had an extra holiday of sorts. They each told me it was pretty easy to sit home and essentially do next to nothing. The company paid for a days work that didn't get done. I would say it "cost" money; yes.
2) Yes - I had tests that sat idle for the day in the test lab rooms because all the hourly techs were told to stay home. I lost a days work, in a project that cannot afford to fall behind. As the project manager, I'm held accountable when the monthly reviews come along. Ironic that the upper management that extended the day off will be the same that crushes me for being behind; irony at it's finest.
3) no - I don't think it's a matter of that; not that I perceive anyway
4) I rather doubt it. I think it was a feigned grasp at projecting "care" for the employees, but the reality is that is was nearly as cold this morning, and yet not one peep about staying home today ... I think most in the building saw it for what it was; a silly short-sighted decision that really didn't save anyone from anything particularly dangerous.


I like where I work. I think it's a pretty good place overall. I just see this mentality (blaming weather when things are not nearly as bad as they are pronounced to be) as becoming more prevalent. When I was a kid, it was common to hear adults around me down-play events, as if they could handle anything and take a punch from nature, as it were. Nowadays, it seems to be the opposite; every little drop of rain or snow is a cause for news-induced panic, and the phrase "It's for safety ..." has become a crutch.

Many years ago, for more than a decade, I used to be a supervisor of various production operations. If your department needs 100 heads to run a production line, you really don't operate well if even one position is not filled. A singular absence can upset a whole line; it's a flow thing. So I'm sensitive to when people don't show up to work. Also, the order to stay home came on the eve of the first day back to work from the holiday break. So, there were many folks that stayed home, and yet didn't have their computers with them, because they didn't plan on working from home when they left work at the end of December. So while folks were encouraged to work from home, and told to not come into work, pretty much nothing got done because the bulk of folks who stayed home didn't have any access to work anyway! In short, very few that stayed home did any work because they didn't have laptops with them, and those of us who actually did show up at work didn't get much done because the vast majority of folks stayed home are necessary to make work-flow happen, and you cannot get things done with only a skeleton crew.

I live in central IN; it get's cold here every year. Every year we get temps well below zero. What made this one day so "special" that we had to tell folks to stay home? I work in an engineering facility now, complete with lots of in-building test cells and lab rooms. When folks don't show up, things don't get done. It is true that some minor amount of work probably did get done by the majority that stayed home, but the work disruption in the building was tangible and caused delays. And for what? It was "cold" outside! It was only a few degrees colder on that day than it was this morning, and yet everyone made it in just fine today!


As I also said, we're now expecting a potential snow/ice story Sunday evening into Monday morning. For that, depending on severity, I can completely agree that perhaps having folks stay home might be prudent. Icy roads are a big issue, not only for safety of the public, but the special services that have to deal with the conditions such as cops, fire/rescue, DOT road crews, EL line workers, etc. The fewer folks on the roads, the less potential for injury and the easier it is for those who NEED to be out doing stuff to get it done without distractions of goof-balls getting in the way.

I've been LEO for more than 20 years. I used to be certified as a Firefighter I/II in Indiana. I spent nearly 8 years on a confined space rescue team, and was trained in confined space assessments and permitting. I pretty much can recognize REAL danger when it's imminent or present. But we've become a nation of pansies; over-reacting to things and blowing them out of proportion at times when it was not necessary. This in turn causes folks be become numb to "real" events, because they are desensitized. When everything is an emergency, you start to believe that nothing is an emergency; chaos become normal, at least in your mind. And if you do it enough, real emergencies become less important to folks, because they begin to distrust the misinformation.



I guess a 5 degF ambient temp delta is what separates the men from the boys, as it were.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
... It all becomes relative - what is extreme here is different than what is extreme in other climates. ...

You can dismiss it all you want - but the reality is the line to cold temps being dangerous is at temps that aren't as cold as you think. And if you live in a place that sees that once or twice a winter, that is a lot different than a place that lives with it for months.

Doesn't make anyone a pansy or a snowflake. No need for name calling. No need to feel superior to someone else either. We're used to extreme cold here. Its part of life. Doesn't make me superior to anyone else.

+1 .... I agree with your post MNgopher.

Throughout this thread, I noticed the words "macho", "pansy", "snowflake", etc., being used to describe people .... Not very grown-up at all. It is usually the case that people who feel superior to others by calling them "pansies" (or other childish words) are deeply insecure. The same goes for people who describe themselves as "macho". Furthermore, one cannot possibly know everyone's circumstances, but people certainly like to judge or look down on others regardless of that. I have never missed a day of work due to inclement weather, and there were times I probably should have stayed home ... but that does not make me better than anyone else.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I remember driving my 1966 Mustang GT about 50 miles one way to visit my girlfriend in nearly impossible CT snow conditions. It took a massive amount of effort, sand bags, and 4 studded snow tires, and bit of crafty driving to make that work. Needless to say, if I could do that, I could make it to work, and I did, every time.


That is literally a likely story.

grin.gif



Yes, I was quite motivated to see her! That car was the worlds worst in the snow. Good times! When I move back up North, I'm purchasing a Subaru Outback or other similarly capable vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: Tony10s
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
... It all becomes relative - what is extreme here is different than what is extreme in other climates. ...

You can dismiss it all you want - but the reality is the line to cold temps being dangerous is at temps that aren't as cold as you think. And if you live in a place that sees that once or twice a winter, that is a lot different than a place that lives with it for months.

Doesn't make anyone a pansy or a snowflake. No need for name calling. No need to feel superior to someone else either. We're used to extreme cold here. Its part of life. Doesn't make me superior to anyone else.

+1 .... I agree with your post MNgopher.

Throughout this thread, I noticed the words "macho", "pansy", "snowflake", etc., being used to describe people .... Not very grown-up at all. It is usually the case that people who feel superior to others by calling them "pansies" (or other childish words) are deeply insecure. The same goes for people who describe themselves as "macho". Furthermore, one cannot possibly know everyone's circumstances, but people certainly like to judge or look down on others regardless of that. I have never missed a day of work due to inclement weather, and there were times I probably should have stayed home ... but that does not make me better than anyone else.

Well said Tony and MNgopher. I completely agree with your posts and points. Thanks for taking the time and posting your thoughtful replies.
 
Were I you, I'd mainly be ranting at myself for not having checked my work email before setting off on a ridiculously cold morning.
We had about the same here Tuesday morning, so I donned a pair of loafers and a pair of gloves and went out in my bathrobe and started both cars about fifteen minutes before it would be time for each of us to leave for work.
I then walked all the way down the driveway to retrieve the newspapers only to find that they hadn't arrived.
Guess that lends me some macho cred, although there is often a fine line between macho and stupid.
When dressing for work, function took priority over fashion and I wore a pair of boots along with Cabot wool hiking socks that had been a timely Christmas gift from one of my sons.
Wife and I both made it to work without any problems, but the roads were dry and traffic was light.
My point is that either of us would have been just as happy to have worked from home on that bitter morning had we had the option to do so. It was a balmy 53F in my office due to both the extreme cold and a control system problem with the HVAC. I had plenty of work that I could just as easily have done from home, which was not an option in those pre-internet days of yore.
Going out on a stupidly cold day proves nothing beyond one's having a decent vehicle ready for winter.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I remember driving my 1966 Mustang GT about 50 miles one way to visit my girlfriend in nearly impossible CT snow conditions. It took a massive amount of effort, sand bags, and 4 studded snow tires, and bit of crafty driving to make that work. Needless to say, if I could do that, I could make it to work, and I did, every time.


Haha a hot woman will definitely make us dudes do some crazy stuff
19.gif
 
Agreed W /Dnewton. Pretty ridiculous.

Cold never stopped anyone from working in Montreal,or Chicago I can recall- the concept of not showing on an otherwise clear day is laughable.

I only remember one school snow day for "cold" in my life in Chicago it was -33F and windchill factor brought it to close to -60.
Half of the city busses and trains weren't running which turned into hour long waits for transportation that was deemed a little to much to be safe.

Dad still drove to work.

Next couple days were balmy -10 and -20 everything returned to normal.

Suck it up and get to work - slackers.


UD
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I guess a 5 degF ambient temp delta is what separates the men from the boys, as it were.


In Michigan, opening day of deer and trout season also ranks high as reason to miss school or work. The absurdity of life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top