Ease my mind...

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Originally Posted By: Klutch9
tensioners. Sometime in August of 2008 Kia/Hyundai switched to a different cartridge filter and housing; maybe to quiet the engine down? The 'old' style filter in my van (and the OP's) has a stem that centers the filter, but also provides a seal that prevents oil from draining back. The housing eventually will become only partially full though, as some oil is allowed to drain back over time. No idea why.


There seems to be some internet chatter about problems with some cartridge filters also. KIA also put out a TSB about them: http://www.kia-forums.com/attachments/20...ommendation.pdf
 
This is classic synthetic drain off when it sits. Thin oil and lower surface tension mean it will do this anytime it sits for a while.

Slightly more viscous 5W-30 semi-syn blend will likely cure it. Having some dino oil brings up the surface tension and allows for a slightly thicker residual film on shut off.

I'd also switch to WIX/Napa Gold filter. Best anti-drain-back valve. Nothing wrong with Fram Ultra (usually), but sometimes the WIX valve is more positive and keeps a better seal. You'll know if the filter keeps the noise at check, or the oil by changing them on a slightly different schedule.

Since you have new oil, try a filter swap. If no difference, do another oil change when you want to and see if that makes a difference ...

If it were my car with that many miles, it would be on Delo 400 5W-40. But I know that is too much of a jump for most of you
grin.gif
 
This is classic synthetic drain off when it sits. Thin oil and lower surface tension mean it will do this anytime it sits for a while. You have enough miles that the bearing clearances have opened up some ...

Slightly more viscous 5W-30 semi-syn blend will likely cure it. Having some dino oil brings up the surface tension and allows for a slightly thicker residual film on shut off.

I'd also switch to WIX/Napa Gold filter. Best anti-drain-back valve. Nothing wrong with Fram Ultra (usually), but sometimes the WIX valve is more positive and keeps a better seal. You'll know if the filter keeps the noise at check, or the oil by changing them on a slightly different schedule.

Since you have new oil, try a filter swap. If no difference, do another oil change when you want to and see if that makes a difference ...

If it were my car with that many miles, it would be on Delo 400 5W-40. But I know that is too much of a jump for most of you
grin.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
This is classic synthetic drain off when it sits. Thin oil and lower surface tension mean it will do this anytime it sits for a while.

Slightly more viscous 5W-30 semi-syn blend will likely cure it. Having some dino oil brings up the surface tension and allows for a slightly thicker residual film on shut off.

I'd also switch to WIX/Napa Gold filter. Best anti-drain-back valve. Nothing wrong with Fram Ultra (usually), but sometimes the WIX valve is more positive and keeps a better seal. You'll know if the filter keeps the noise at check, or the oil by changing them on a slightly different schedule.

Since you have new oil, try a filter swap. If no difference, do another oil change when you want to and see if that makes a difference ...

If it were my car with that many miles, it would be on Delo 400 5W-40. But I know that is too much of a jump for most of you
grin.gif



There is no anti drain back valve, it is NOT a spin on oil filter.

The Fram Ultra oil filter was recommended by the people on this forum, I had been using Purolator PureOne oil filters for the last couple of oil changes. The guys on here hate that filter, I am morally opposed to Fram, but figured it was highly recommended on here so...

It never did it with Mobil 1 5w-20.

I have used Rotella T6 (5w-40 full syn) in the van early on for one oil change, it hated it.
 
Originally Posted By: Klutch9
OP, see my PM.

For those suggesting things to try, the Sedona does not use a spin-on filter, so those Kia/Hyundai TSBs about having engine noise if the OEM filter is not used do not apply here. FWIW, some startup tick/knock is normal for a few seconds on the 3.8L until oil pressure builds. This was confirmed to me by a dealer near me, and made reference to in the TSB for timing chain tensioners. Sometime in August of 2008 Kia/Hyundai switched to a different cartridge filter and housing; maybe to quiet the engine down? The 'old' style filter in my van (and the OP's) has a stem that centers the filter, but also provides a seal that prevents oil from draining back. The housing eventually will become only partially full though, as some oil is allowed to drain back over time. No idea why.


I will remove the oil filter and double check the O-rings and make sure the centering tube is seated correctly.
But this makes sense, oil is draining back out of the filter housing and when she starts it is it just like after a oil change, zero residual oil to quickly build oil pressure.
 
More likely the filter than the oil. Go back to the Pure One filter and see if the noise stops.
 
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
It possibly just doesn't like the Fram Ultra. Try another filter first.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Are you running an OEM filter?

If not, spin on a new filter.


Yep, some engines are very sensitive to non OEM filters.


This is my first thought too. Change the filter and top off with whatever oil you may have on hand. You may want to go back the the Purolator...Yes, Purolator!

I have nothing against FRAM. I have and will continue to use them. However, I use Purolator as well.
 
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I have experienced start up tick with Fram Ultras in the past (only 2 times). At first I thought it was something with the engine but when I took off the Ultra and replaced it with an OEM the issue went away.
 
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Originally Posted By: burla
Research tick and synthetic oil and see what you get. Search what oil quiets an engine and see what you get. Regular oils work just fine 99% of the time, but boutique oils, as in real oils that use hearty formulas not gimmicks, give you more protection from dry starts.

What?

Exactly, he's been using a synthetic oil for all the previous changes. That's not the issue nor is the cloaked reference to Redline the solution.
 
Originally Posted By: Spike555

6-I've been Googling since I posted, looks like it's the timing chain tensioners.
Now I need to figure out if it's a job I'm going to do or farm out.
I only use the stealer for warranty, recall's and TSB's, never ever anything else.

Yup, that's it.

Different oil or filters is not going to fix that.
 
Usually a filter the engine doesn't like makes racket; this Ive found over the past 5 years of trying to get to the bottom of my engine woes.

My Rogue didn't like the magical mann hummel Hyundai Kia filter; Made more noise than anything and - all the time! The Rogue didn't like the Chinese garbage Nissan replacement filter either!

It was OK with the Fram Toughguard which is mostly equivalent to the Honda OEM Fram-onda Hond dealer service part

Having good luck with a M1 EP (champ labs) filter now. Too bad its 9 bucks!

Of course its a champ labs - always the best filter manufacturer out there - until that dang e-core cost cutting/recycling redesign fiasco!

I would change filter NOW, with a Champ labs non ecore - if you can find one.
 
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Sounds like oil drained after shut down. It could be the car doesn't "like" the oil. My IS will rattle up a storm with valvoline synthetic, and rattle least with pp. No clue why or how to explain it.
 
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
My IS will rattle up a storm with valvoline synthetic, and rattle least with pp. No clue why or how to explain it.


Interesting, have you tried using Castrol Magnatec in it yet? I could see where M1 and Valvoline could be noisy based on some reports here and personal experience.
 
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Originally Posted By: kschachn
Exactly, he's been using a synthetic oil for all the previous changes. That's not the issue nor is the cloaked reference to Redline the solution.

And few people wish to throw a boutique at a 12 year old Kia with 180,000 miles on it.
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
This is classic synthetic drain off when it sits. Thin oil and lower surface tension mean it will do this anytime it sits for a while. You have enough miles that the bearing clearances have opened up some ...

Slightly more viscous 5W-30 semi-syn blend will likely cure it. Having some dino oil brings up the surface tension and allows for a slightly thicker residual film on shut off.

I'd also switch to WIX/Napa Gold filter. Best anti-drain-back valve. Nothing wrong with Fram Ultra (usually), but sometimes the WIX valve is more positive and keeps a better seal. You'll know if the filter keeps the noise at check, or the oil by changing them on a slightly different schedule.

Since you have new oil, try a filter swap. If no difference, do another oil change when you want to and see if that makes a difference ...

If it were my car with that many miles, it would be on Delo 400 5W-40. But I know that is too much of a jump for most of you
grin.gif



Some of your comments are just plain wrong.
 
Ok so here is what I did tonight after work, I removed the oil filter and removed it from the housing.
Inspected the filter, it looked fine, not crushed or deformed in anyway. There is one pleat that is metal instead of filter media, I assume this is because of the steel mesh that the filter media is wrapped around.
Put it all back together, left the engine cover off, fired it up and no noise, quiet as it's always been.
Oil light went out before I let go of the key.
An hour or so later when she left for yoga I was outside and there was no noise, the van sounded 100% normal.
She is going to keep a ear on it and let me know if she hears it again or the frequency of the noise increases.
So for right now my mind is at ease that it is not the oil or the oil filter.

Thank you everyone for your input.
 
Ahh a cartridge loader! Sometimes a oil drain back with filter remova and that lil air pocket ( think water hammer In the oiling galleries) at start slams the tensioner or VVT back into submission - other times it just JAMS it.

I warned you all about long timing chains and tensioners!

Cant beat a belt dry timing system.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Ahh a cartridge loader! Sometimes a oil drain back with filter remova and that lil air pocket ( think water hammer In the oiling galleries) at start slams the tensioner or VVT back into submission - other times it just JAMS it.

I warned you all about long timing chains and tensioners!

Cant beat a belt dry timing system.



And I researched the timing chain and tensioners for her van, that does not seem to be the problem. When the van was making the rattle it was on the back of the engine, where it mates to the transmission.
 
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
My IS will rattle up a storm with valvoline synthetic, and rattle least with pp. No clue why or how to explain it.


Interesting, have you tried using Castrol Magnatec in it yet? I could see where M1 and Valvoline could be noisy based on some reports here and personal experience.


Not the same, it is the dreaded cam rattle of the GRs. P.O. works fine and yields the least occurrence rate, and it is 20 bucks flat for 5 qt.
 
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