BlackStone - Oil Manufacturer Doesn't Matter - Discussion

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Marco620
I find it a huge deal in the 0w16 or 0w20 oils. I only want Grp 5 or 4 at the very least with big hths. I like overkill and margin or error comfort. Putting all the miles I do;good enough isnt good enough for me. I'm sticking with true synthetic oils regardless of blackstone. But I do support free will to all and people will use what they want,what they must or what the are willing to spend/afford.


But do you have sufficient knowledge to determine whether your oil of choice is "overkill" or has a "margin for error"?


Or only provides "adequate protection."

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by burla
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by burla
That's why I like m1 over super tech.



What are you talking about? Mobil One has had at least 4 major changes in the last 14 years.


last one was how long ago? they were ahead of the curve and they stayed there.



Less than 3 years ago and now even mom and pop blenders use similar chemistry thus XOM has not stayed ahead because everyone has caught them.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by StevieC
This isn't a question to start a brand war and none of the brands I singled out I did so because I think one is better than the other. I was just illustrating the difference between using something you bought at an economical price that meets said spec instead of using something a tad more expensive for some other reason and what that reason is that makes it the right choice.

What say you?

I've learned a long time ago, when dealing with the internet, is to "hold your cards close". No matter what you or I do/use, some self-proclaimed expert will criticize it and make all sorts of outlandish claims about what will happen because of our choice(s).

If you use SuperTech from Walmart, you're cheap because "you know how much a replacement engine costs ?". If you use Amsoil, "you're just paying for the name" and "it's not worth the money".

 

[StevieC]

Interesting points raised and information provided, this is exactly the discussion I was hoping for.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Oil and filters don't matter ... time to just reduce BITOG down to the Off Topic and Humor forums.

Zee, I don't think anybody implied they don't matter... this may be a better way to say it: oil and filter choice don't matter "as much" as 1. we would like to think during the average ownership of a new vehicle; and 2. how the absence of prudent maintenance affects vehicle longevity despite choosing premium oils and filters.

Better?

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Oil and filters don't matter ... time to just reduce BITOG down to the Off Topic and Humor forums.

No, because I would miss out on the weekly "Who makes SuperTech?" thread.

 

[The_Nuke]

I always/only use the best oil I can for my car.

How do I define 'best'? Glad you asked - the best oil for me is the one that keeps the voices in my head from screaming at me all night and day.

It's not the same oil every time either. Currently it is Pennzoil HM in the yellow bottle. Last OCI it was Valvoline MaxLife.

Who knows what it will be next...

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by claluja
LOL. Fuel dilution doesn't matter either, per Blackstone.

I have a hard time believing anything a company says that routinely gives its customers fake fuel dilution numbers, and a false sense of security. MHO.


OK, so sure.. Blackstone sees likely thousands of UOAs per year, then toss in Wearchek, Polaris, CAT, yada yada yada (the ones that use GCMS to read fuel which you put more faith in). Let's argue to support your point of view for a second here.

1. If fuel results DID make this huge problem that Blackstone is missing, where are all the failed engines or outrageously poor UOAs that show impending failures? (and yes I know big particles do not register on normal UOAs)
2. For the other labs that do use GCMS, where are the engines that were saved by finding the excessive fuel content? Just as in point 1, by the time you get to the impending failure it's not likely to avoid a major rebuild.

I'm not saying fuel in oil isn't bad; I think we all know that it is... but show me where the difference in UOA fuel % reporting methods has made a STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT difference in failed engines (there are thousands of UOAs to include in your sample, so I'll wait for your analysis

). Not just some Joe Blow's "gut feel" that an approximation of fuel is less informative than a GCMS result.

 

[blupupher]

I came to realize for me a long time ago that oil brand does not matter for me.
I used to be a Valvoline only user, and would say probably because of marketing and "just because".
I came here and jumped on the German Castrol bandwagon (had like 60 qts at one time, but only used 2 OCI of it and returned/sold it off).
I then found the sales and clearance section, and since then...

When I look for oil now, I look at does it meet the spec for my vehicle (API rating and viscosity), how much does it cost per qt, syn or conventional, then brand (and so long as common brand, even store brand, I am OK with it).

And even with the API/viscosity, I give myself some leeway depending on the engine (like my current Santa Fe, I plan on using Rotella T6 5w-40, a recommended viscosity, but is the current formula without a gasoline rating (but from what I can find, would easily meet API SM, which my engine specs).

But to answer:
Quote
...what are some of the reasons for not reaching for the other synthetics over the economy ones?...

Marketing?
Feel good factor?
It cost more, so must be "better"?

 

[Hall]

Has anyone seen or rec'd a report from Blackstone or any of the others that "suggest" they use a different brand or type of oil ?

 

[Al]

Originally Posted by claluja
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Oil and filters don't matter ... time to just reduce BITOG down to the Off Topic and Humor forums.

LOL. Fuel dilution doesn't matter either, per Blackstone.

I have a hard time believing anything a company says that routinely gives its customers fake fuel dilution numbers, and a false sense of security. MHO.

Relax and take a pill grasshopper.

I doubt if I am the only old timer here that has come to the conclusion that "oil is oil" Oils have come so far.

I suppose the blackstone reports on wear metals don't say it it all. But I would certainly say that if reports are good throughout the life of the car, the engine is likely to go 200K miles+. Been there done that.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by StevieC
I went back and read the Blackstone study article where they talk about oil brand doesn't make much of a difference if the oil meets the correct specifications and grade as the OEM requires and how it makes little difference in the grand schemes of things in terms of wear over the course of and engines life.

...

Picking say M1 or PUP because of better cold weather performance which seems to be irrelevant by the fact that Blackstone really found no difference between which syn you choose so why stress over the CCS/MRV/Pour Points as one example?
...

(Reference to the Blackstone lab findings: https://jalopnik.com/why-expensive-oil-is-a-waste-of-money-1797241527)

Not sure what Blackstone has to do with CCS/MRV, those are only going to affect whether your car starts in the extreme cold...something that's not going to show up in a UOA.
Not many people need to care about the CCS of a, say, 5W30, but I started looking at them because I park my car outside on ski nights in the Whites and don't have access to a place to plug in. Doesn't happen often, but -30F is not unheard of (missed -29F by one day last season) and I will definitely be out skiing the next morning after that kind of temp as there will not be a crowd!
Honestly, any old 5W30 would probably get me through situations like that and the battery if definitely more likely to be a negative factor...but, that kind of attitude would get me kicked off BITOG. If I'm looking at a couple of oils of a given grade that are otherwise quite similar to the limits of my knowledge and one has better CCS performance, then that makes the choice for me.
(and note that I'm running a 0W30 now just for fun)

 

[StevieC]

What about from the stand point of in-organic chemistry additives or sodium/magnesium based ad-packs etc. or with/without moly. How does that factor into not mattering based on Blackstone. Because of the overall composition of the oil?

Molakule, I would be interested to hear your POV on this thread.

 

[andyd]

Don't really have a dog in this fight. Never paid for a UOA. I bought my first 528e with 150 kmiles on it. I soon discovered that it leaked a qt every 1500 miles from a weepy head gasket. So, I went to Wal Mart and bought Super Tech 20w50 dino and ran the car another 200K miles. So my anecdotal experience dove tails with Blackstone's. People who use UOAs aren't likely to use a bad oil. In fact , it is hard to find "bad" oil .

 

[ka9mnx]

You have to remember this article was written by the same guy that ran oil from the '60's and '70's in his newer truck. Did UOA's and said all was well.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

My thoughts in uoas is that they are not a great indicator of wear or lubricant performance, there are many other variables going on including the fuel, the driving habits and climate and air filtration quality.
A major shift in detected wear metals happens when something went wrong.
They can detect upsets that can lead to wear such as glycol or with good analysis fuel in the oil.
They can also help tune the oil change interval, but I don't think that's cost effective knowing what we know impacts oil change intervals,
I have done half a dozen or so in the past. May do another but never thought of them as indicative of the oils performance and more interesting to look at different engines and applications performance.

In industry they are done as a PM, not to grade the oils but to detect if corrective maintenance is needed to prevent unplanned outages.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I've always used uoas to determine engine health. If an engine is shedding a ton of wear metals,something internally must be wrong.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I've always used uoas to determine engine health. If an engine is shedding a ton of wear metals,something internally must be wrong.

Have you ever had that happen?

 

[IndyFan]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I've always used uoas to determine engine health. If an engine is shedding a ton of wear metals,something internally must be wrong.


I agree. I don't even thing you can get an idea of long term wear from a UOA. I remember seeing Chevy small blocks running Mobil 1 and showing higher iron than most, but lasting hundreds of thousands of miles. I think the UOA can show problems either through dramatic changes or in trends. I don't think you can look at one engine with typically, say 20ppm iron and another with typically 9ppm and say the 9ppm engine will last longer. Every engine is different, and I'm not sure the UOA is even intended to do some of the things we hope or believe they do. We've all seen outliers, such as engines with consistently high fuel dilution that run north of 200k.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by StevieC
This isn't a question to start a brand war and none of the brands I singled out I did so because I think one is better than the other. I was just illustrating the difference between using something you bought at an economical price that meets said spec instead of using something a tad more expensive for some other reason and what that reason is that makes it the right choice.

What say you?

I've learned a long time ago, when dealing with the internet, is to "hold your cards close". No matter what you or I do/use, some self-proclaimed expert will criticize it and make all sorts of outlandish claims about what will happen because of our choice(s).

If you use SuperTech from Walmart, you're cheap because "you know how much a replacement engine costs ?". If you use Amsoil, "you're just paying for the name" and "it's not worth the money".



This draws my ire also. A person will use a house brand and the someone will chime in use brand X instead because for a few dollars more you will get a name brand. If both meet the same specs and certs they are the same quality. I use a couple of name brands because I can get it less money then a name brand. The OCI in my truck I used Napa syn because it was less than Supertech another house brand. I must be an engine abuser.