At what point is an OEM required provide oil?

[1JZ_E46]

For example, looking at the requirements for a 2019 330i (per the official BMW USA owners manual), you have two options:

- LL-01 FE
- LL-14 FE+

For LL-01 FE there is NO aftermarket option available; BMW TwinPower Turbo 0W-30 is the only oil that carries LL-01 FE.

For LL-14 FE+, at least here in the U.S., you have two aftermarket options only available from a handful small online retailers (Fuchs--available at 1 small online store, and Motul--available at a few small online stores). These oils are nowhere to be found in any kind of brick and mortar establishment.

As the thread title states, at what point is an OEM required to provide oil under the MMW Act? Is this enough choice/availability to be legal?

 

[StevieC]

Only when they specify that only "X" brand and type can be used. If they just say you are required to use an oil meeting X,Y,Z specifications / grades etc.

There is nothing you can do about that as I understand it.

Quote
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title15-chapter50&edition=prelim

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
As the thread title states, at what point is an OEM required to provide oil under the MMW Act? Is this enough choice/availability to be legal?
Isn't maintenance included on any new BMW in the US?

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
As the thread title states, at what point is an OEM required to provide oil under the MMW Act? Is this enough choice/availability to be legal?
Isn't maintenance included on any new BMW in the US?



For a fixed period of time, yes, but I don't believe it's over the entire warranty period.

 

[Job]

Why would they provide oil? You can buy it. If you aren't happy with the only place it's sold that doesn't mean they give it away. They aren't responsible for after market suppliers not meeting their specs.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Only when they specify that only "X" brand and type can be used. If they just say you are required to use an oil meeting X,Y,Z specifications / grades etc.

There is nothing you can do about that as I understand it.

Quote
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title15-chapter50&edition=prelim


Thanks Stevie.

 

[y_p_w]

Magnuson-Moss says that the part can't be specified by brand name (to keep the warranty intact) unless it's provided for free during the entire warranty period. I don't believe they can legally say it has to have the manufacturer's approval either. However, a published manufacturer's standard should be legal even if there's nothing else that claims to meet that standard. Eventually there's going to be something that meets the standard that's sold aftermarket.

I'm not sure how it works for something like spark plugs. The Japanese manufacturers specify NGK (and sometimes Denso) specifically by brand name and part number. However, I'm thinking that a properly cross-referenced part should be fine for warranty purposes. However, most factory spark plugs these days last longer than the warranty period.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
For LL-14 FE+, at least here in the U.S., you have two aftermarket options only available from a handful small online retailers (Fuchs--available at 1 small online store, and Motul--available at a few small online stores). These oils are nowhere to be found in any kind of brick and mortar establishment.

Some of those online stores do sell in person, but you have to be close to one. There might be some speed shops that specialize in BMW maintenance fluids, but you'd have to find them.

I remember I was looking for a specific part, and the cheapest place I could find was some motorcycle speed shop in Southern California. The guy taking my order was wondering exactly why I needed 3 bottles of Motul Gear 300 or a 3 0.5L bottles of brake fluid. When I told him it was for a car he understood. Someone did mess up my order though. Sent 3 250 ml cans of Motorex brake fluid, and later sent me the proper brake fluid and told me to keep those cans for my trouble.

 

[dogememe]

At the end of the day if people need oil they're just gonna find the closest thing. We had a customer in the parts store a while back looking for 0w-30 ll-01 fe. we didn't have anything obviously. so they just bought some random 5w-30 synthetic and put it in. no big deal!

 

[exranger06]

This is no different than having to buy transmission fluid or coolant at the dealer because there's no (officially licensed) aftermarket alternative available.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by exranger06
This is no different than having to buy transmission fluid or coolant at the dealer because there's no (officially licensed) aftermarket alternative available.

The whole "officially licensed" is supposed to be legally unenforceable. It simply has to provide the level of protection needed. However, I understand that some fluid manufacturers fight hard when a manufacturer tries anything. While I'm not a fan of Amsoil per se, I've heard they'll bring in their lawyers to fight for their customers.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by exranger06
This is no different than having to buy transmission fluid or coolant at the dealer because there's no (officially licensed) aftermarket alternative available.

The whole "officially licensed" is supposed to be legally unenforceable. It simply has to provide the level of protection needed. However, I understand that some fluid manufacturers fight hard when a manufacturer tries anything. While I'm not a fan of Amsoil per se, I've heard they'll bring in their lawyers to fight for their customers.

That doesn't negate anything I said...

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Unless something has changed the first four years is free service, I suspect in four years there will be a lot more choice.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by exranger06
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by exranger06
This is no different than having to buy transmission fluid or coolant at the dealer because there's no (officially licensed) aftermarket alternative available.

The whole "officially licensed" is supposed to be legally unenforceable. It simply has to provide the level of protection needed. However, I understand that some fluid manufacturers fight hard when a manufacturer tries anything. While I'm not a fan of Amsoil per se, I've heard they'll bring in their lawyers to fight for their customers.

That doesn't negate anything I said...

Wasn't my intent to do as such. I was just trying to elaborate on a complicated issue.

 

[Linctex]

I did a quick google search and found all kinds of it for $9-$10 a quart/liter

I don't see what the problem is here??????

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted by Linctex
I did a quick google search and found all kinds of it for $9-$10 a quart/liter

I don't see what the problem is here??????


For BMW's TwinPower Turbo LL-01 FE, yes. Not for aftermarket alternatives.

 

[Linctex]

Then buy a different car that doesn't require such a difficult to obtain oil.

.....or just say eFF it and run Mobil 1.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by y_p_w
I'm not sure how it works for something like spark plugs. The Japanese manufacturers specify NGK (and sometimes Denso) specifically by brand name and part number. However, I'm thinking that a properly cross-referenced part should be fine for warranty purposes. However, most factory spark plugs these days last longer than the warranty period.

Owners manual for my G35 doesn't specify anything other than recommending to use iridium plugs. The field service manual does "spec" Denso plugs but this is an internal document effectively and is more telling a mechanic what they "should" use.

What wording are you seeing or referring to ? If they say they "recommend NGK spark plugs", that's allowed. I'd be surprised if they say "require NGK spark plugs".

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by exranger06
This is no different than having to buy transmission fluid or coolant at the dealer because there's no (officially licensed) aftermarket alternative available.

Nissan/Infiniti still says in pretty strong words that you have to use Nissan Matic-?? ATF and talks about damage can occur and makes threats about not being covered under warranty. How do they get away with that ? I read that they toned down their wording but I looked up later manuals and it looked the same to me.

From a '14 Frontier
Quote

Use Genuine NISSAN Matic S ATF. If Genuine NISSAN Matic S ATF is not available, Genuine NISSAN Matic J ATF may also be used. Using automatic transmission fluid other than Genuine NISSAN Matic S ATF or Matic J ATF will cause deterioration in driveability and automatic trans-mission durability, and may damage the automatic transmission, which is not covered by the NISSAN new vehicle limited warranty

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I'm not sure how it works for something like spark plugs. The Japanese manufacturers specify NGK (and sometimes Denso) specifically by brand name and part number. However, I'm thinking that a properly cross-referenced part should be fine for warranty purposes. However, most factory spark plugs these days last longer than the warranty period.

Owners manual for my G35 doesn't specify anything other than recommending to use iridium plugs. The field service manual does "spec" Denso plugs but this is an internal document effectively and is more telling a mechanic what they "should" use.

What wording are you seeing or referring to ? If they say they "recommend NGK spark plugs", that's allowed. I'd be surprised if they say "require NGK spark plugs".

It's kind of vague. It's under specifications but not where there's anything that says it has to be used. My wife's car only lists two plug types. One each from Denso or NGK on page 229.

http://owners.honda.com/assets/OWNERLINK/Model/own_man/2002CivicSd.pdf