Actual damage from fuel dilution?

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Railrust
I think long term, fuel dilution will become a problem...it's a gradual thing. Fuel will reduce the lubrication properties of the oil - I'd worry about ring and bearing wear. Gradually. Then you'll have your oil burning, excessive blowby, eventual loss of oil pressure, loss of power...all things that eventually happen to an old engine with lots of miles (only sooner).

I think it's going to be real interesting to see how DI engines are long term, like when they reach 200,000 plus. And I know I have "re-thought" my oil change strategies since owning my first DI engine five years ago. I no longer do the 7,500-10,000 mile oil changes. My last DI engine began "using" a lot of oil after it reached 150,000 miles. And when it reached 175,000 it got much worse, to the tune of a quart every 700 miles. Then I traded it in. I'm on my second DI engine now, I keep my oil change intervals to 5,000 miles using a recommended Synthetic and quality filter...will that make a difference? Well it better, rather that or I'll just keep adding oil this time around...I'm tired of buying new vehicle, plan on keeping this one till 300,000k.


I've always wondered why some of these engines that use DI are using thinner oils like a 0w20 or 5w20 and not a thicker 10w30 (is it just for the mpgs?). In my basic understanding of direct injection, spraying fuel directly into the cylinder is going to lead to the stripping away of that protective film on the cylinder walls, no? If that's true, how does that NOT lead to increased wear on things like the rings and loss of compression issues, blow by and fuel dilution??? Admittedly I haven't researched that out, mainly because I don't own a DI engine (and don't plan to anytime soon) so ultimately I don't care but I'm curious none the less.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Are there any actual reports of damage from fuel dilution? All I can find is people taking precautionary measures. Has fuel dilution actually resulted in a broken engine, especially for DI Honda's? Seems like there's not any actual stories of damaged Honda's, which makes me think the engineers accounted for fuel dilution.

This thread is a perfect example on why I will never go beyond 5K on my Hyundai 2.4 engine. I ran the factory OCI to only 3K and never even whiffed any fuel on my dipstick at 3K.

Proceed with caution folks, for oil is cheap (relatively speaking). Stick with SN Plus / Dexon 1-Gen2 oils in the thicker viscosities allowed in your owners manual. Even thou it's not necessary, I run mid-grade Top-Tier fuels (mostly Shell & Mobil in 89 octane). Treat your vehicle well and it will treat you well. Buy Syn oils that say it keeps your engine clean from deposits. I have not seen that wording on Supertech Syn oil labels. All it says it meets the specs. But so does two persons in-line for their high school diploma. One got As and will be a doctor. The other averaged C- grades and will be lucky to finish two years of college.

Buy hey, they both meet the diploma specs...... right!. Well, you and I know those specs are so wide-range, that one oil is at the top of the ladder rung and actually cleans, while the other is at the bottom and waves that spec diploma like it belongs on the same ladder.

Well folks, I have decided it doesn't belong and if you think about it hard for a minute, you will say the same thing. But hey, throw this advice out the window, if you change vehicles a-lot. I do not, for I am first and last owner. So I am forced to buy oils, filters......etc..... that get me 18 years of vehicle use, before rust makes it dangerous to drive. Yu can buy inexpensive filters that work. But don;t try thsat with oil. For carbon, soot that seals valves and pistons.... also lspi could harm it and the repairs will be costly.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter


I've always wondered why some of these engines that use DI are using thinner oils like a 0w20 or 5w20 and not a thicker 10w30 (is it just for the mpgs?). In my basic understanding of direct injection, spraying fuel directly into the cylinder is going to lead to the stripping away of that protective film on the cylinder walls, no? If that's true, how does that NOT lead to increased wear on things like the rings and loss of compression issues, blow by and fuel dilution??? Admittedly I haven't researched that out, mainly because I don't own a DI engine (and don't plan to anytime soon) so ultimately I don't care but I'm curious none the less.


I think GM has the right idea. When the direct injected 7th generation Corvette came out they originally specified a dexos1 5w30, but now the factory fill for 2019s (and recommendation for 2014-2018 from them too) is a dexos2 0w40. They say it's so that owners don't need to swap back and forth between 5w30 and 15w50 when they go to the track, but I'm not buying that reason since I bet less than half of one percent of all Corvette owners will go to the track. I have a feeling they wanted the higher HTHS for better protection when you get a little bit of fuel dilution in there (and since a lot of Corvette owners tend to drive their cars harder than the average GM vehicle)

 

[ChrisD46]

Makes sense , DI engine = using a higher allowable viscosity from the OM changed at shorter intervals (3,750 ~ 5,000 miles) .

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter


I've always wondered why some of these engines that use DI are using thinner oils like a 0w20 or 5w20 and not a thicker 10w30 (is it just for the mpgs?). In my basic understanding of direct injection, spraying fuel directly into the cylinder is going to lead to the stripping away of that protective film on the cylinder walls, no? If that's true, how does that NOT lead to increased wear on things like the rings and loss of compression issues, blow by and fuel dilution??? Admittedly I haven't researched that out, mainly because I don't own a DI engine (and don't plan to anytime soon) so ultimately I don't care but I'm curious none the less.


I think GM has the right idea. When the direct injected 7th generation Corvette came out they originally specified a dexos1 5w30, but now the factory fill for 2019s (and recommendation for 2014-2018 from them too) is a dexos2 0w40. They say it's so that owners don't need to swap back and forth between 5w30 and 15w50 when they go to the track, but I'm not buying that reason since I bet less than half of one percent of all Corvette owners will go to the track. I have a feeling they wanted the higher HTHS for better protection when you get a little bit of fuel dilution in there (and since a lot of Corvette owners tend to drive their cars harder than the average GM vehicle)


You could very well be right in your guesstimate. Me personally, if I had a DI engine I would be running the thickest oil allowed with the latest specs and be darnned with the hit to mpg's. I would also be changing the oil out more frequently (severe schedule) rather than less but that's just me and I don't even own a DI.. Like someone pointed out, quality oil isn't that expensive.

Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Makes sense , DI engine = using a higher allowable viscosity from the OM changed at shorter intervals (3,750 ~ 5,000 miles) .


Makes sense to me too..👠I don't have a DI engine and I change it between 4~5k miles. Can I go longer, probably. But doing one extra oil change a year isn't that onerous and the cost of the addtl change isn't going to change my way of life in a meaningful way. ...

 

[Talent_Keyhole]

Originally Posted by Railrust
I think long term, fuel dilution will become a problem...it's a gradual thing. Fuel will reduce the lubrication properties of the oil - I'd worry about ring and bearing wear. Gradually. Then you'll have your oil burning, excessive blowby, eventual loss of oil pressure, loss of power...all things that eventually happen to an old engine with lots of miles (only sooner).

I think it's going to be real interesting to see how DI engines are long term, like when they reach 200,000 plus. And I know I have "re-thought" my oil change strategies since owning my first DI engine five years ago. I no longer do the 7,500-10,000 mile oil changes. My last DI engine began "using" a lot of oil after it reached 150,000 miles. And when it reached 175,000 it got much worse, to the tune of a quart every 700 miles. Then I traded it in. I'm on my second DI engine now, I keep my oil change intervals to 5,000 miles using a recommended Synthetic and quality filter...will that make a difference? Well it better, rather that or I'll just keep adding oil this time around...I'm tired of buying new vehicle, plan on keeping this one till 300,000k.


My hope is also to get at least 300k out of my Equinox. Long term fuel dilution from GDI will indeed cause ring and cylinder wear, increase blow-by. Then breakdown of the oil, ring and piston groove build-up that causes more blow-by, worse intake valve and piston carbon build-up. My 2.4l Ecotec had onl 88k and it was burning oil 1.5qts/2000 miles, heavy varnish on all non contact surfaces in the engine, regardless if you used Dexos oil. The OLM was also poorly programmed which resulted in much longer OCI. GM was sued and now offer a 7.5 year/120k warranty for piston and ring replacement. They claim that the wrong rings were used, but that is just a cover. After the pistion/ring replacement, and now that the rings are broken-in/seated, I am using Amsoil SS 5W30, high efficient synthetic oil filter and oil analysis every 1500 miles. I may go with a 0W40 if the GDI still causes a drop in viscosity after 1500 miles as it did before.