.44 Special for Home Defense

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It appears you have a lot of confusion. Do you understand the difference between .223 and "7.62?" It was clear you have no idea of the difference between different "7.62" rounds. Mini30s shoot 7.62x39. AR15s too. M14s shoot .7.62x51. M1 Garands and BARs shoot 7.62x63. Marlins shoot 7.62x51R. And then you have pistols that shoot 7.62x25.

It appears you have zero interest in learning anything. Hopefully your sister will seek guidance elsewhere. No telling what you'll get her to buy.
 
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Is slicing and dicing each of the 7.62 variants really necessary. Okay, if you say so.
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Do I understand the difference between 7.62 and .223.
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Here is my old ratty SKS I got way back when they were first starting to become a fad before AK's started making in-roads here. So what do you say, Hatt, should I just parcel this out there to her for home defense in her densely populated neighborhood?

IMG_4679_zpsi1ghoyyb.jpg
 
If my sister needed a gun, I'd just gift her one and not worry if it was on CA's acceptable list or not.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
I *was* set on a handgun for her, but all this center fire rifle talk got me to looking. Found this, I think it might be the ticket:

Oh snap, not California legal.


It is in .416 Barrett.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
So my reaction was "Mini 14?!... Sure she'll hit them... as well as some poor sap on the other side of town!"

edit: oops, just saw SKS on your list. I am loosing faith in your claimed expertise in ballistics and home defense issues, etc. 7.62x39mm rifle for home defense?? Or a 30-30 cowboy rifle? Good God man, I don't want her slaying her neighbors next door and beyond. I am sure you were being dark humor tongue-in-cheek with the Mini 14 (30-06!!), SKS, and 30-30 recommendations. Her house is not brick it's a vinyl sided ranch as are her neighbors, a suburban neighborhood with homes on city blocks, not acres.

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Honestly, a long gun is the better answer. It will be easier for her to manipulate, shoot, and she will be a lot more accurate with one. She will likely miss 75% or more of her shots fired from a pistol.

I'd look at the following:
20 gauge coach gun double barrel shotgun
lever action 30-30 or lever action .357 magnum
semi-auto 20 gauge (Mossberg)
Mini 14 (California legal I believe, and very simple)
California legal SKS (very simple)


OK you got me. I missed the part where you said she had close neighbors and a non-brick construction. So lets remove the SKS and 30-30. Every other long gun I recommended would be a great choice, and superior to a revolver. Revised list below, that would be safer for the neighbors.

20 gauge coach gun double barrel shotgun
lever action .357 magnum/.38 special
semi-auto 20 gauge (Mossberg)
Mini 14 (California legal I believe, and very simple)
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
I assume the mini 14 comes in other calibers than what me knee jerk reasction was when I saw it on your list... which I've always known it to be 30-06.


The Ruger Mini-14 is available in 3 calibers. .223, 7.62 X 39 MM, and most recently, .300 AAC Blackout. It was never available in .30-06.


Mini 14 was also available in 6.8 and .222 Remington for a short time.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Either way.... One of those rifle calibers for home defense might be a choice if you live out in the sticks and there are acres and woods and hills between your house and the next, but not in town.


The FBI recommends .223 caliber rifles for entries as they have found that the caliber is less dangerous to bystanders/innocents than shotgun rounds and pistol rounds. But hey, those guys are idiots, right?
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
BTW, someone mentioned there are some 9mm revolvers out. Where? I have not seen any for sale.


Ruger sells a few. 9MM is a high pressure round, and thus has recoil and blast approaching .357 Magnum compared to .38 special. I'm not a fan of 9MM revolvers, and I wouldn't recommend one for a beginner.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Bored this morning, so here's a happy snap of a few of my favorites. Can anyone guess which one I keep bedside? Hint: It's not the one with muzzle velocity shown @ 3050fps.
IMG_4674_zpsma8bzyhf.jpg


Well if you had any tactical training and experience, and an basic education on best home defense survival tactics as well as a basic understanding of ballistics etc, you would keep the Glock AND the AR-15 next to bed, realizing that they both serve a purpose. You would also realize that the average person misses about 50-70% of their shots with a pistol while the average person misses only 10-15% of their shots with a long gun. You also dont know when violence will strike, and what kind of violence will strike. Will the bad guy breaking into your house be a 85 year old frail grandpa or a 6 person home invasion crew wearing body armor - you simply don't know. The AR gives you better accuracy, better ballistics, more ammo, and the FBI says it is safer for the neighbors. Quite simply, the AR is the superior weapon. I dont understand at all why a person would own an AR and not even keep it next to bed. Its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Open you mind, learn some more, and maybe you will adjust your "opinion" that a pistol is a better home defense tool than a carbine.
 
I would get her a 9MM with that arthritis. Perhaps a S&W Shield or a Beretta Nano, Walther PPS...... something like that. Wear it in her small purse too.
 
Problem might be that some semi-autos take some pretty good strength to cycle the slide. Might pose an issue to someone with arthritis.

But a semi-auto should be easier to pull the trigger on than a revolver would be in double-action mode.

Take her to a gun range that rents all kinds of different guns and let her shoot semi-autos and revolvers to see what works out the best.
 
I can't imagine buying a snub if my only intent were to use it in the home. A 4" revolver in whatever caliber you choose is so much more manageable, easier to shoot accurately, and will have less recoil.

As others have said, the downside to 44 special is the availability of self defense ammo. A good lead semi-wadcutter still has a lot going for it, but I don't know if there are any current commercial loadings of them. I love 44 special(generally shot out of an S&W 629 "Mountain Gun"-the only 44 I have), but it really is a handloader's caliber to get the most out of it. Hand loaded ammunition for self defense is a bad idea and something I don't do.

I don't like shooting 38 specials out of a 357 magnum, but that's primarily because I hate cleaning the crud ring out that-if left-will make extracting spent cases difficult. I've never bought a new 357 magnum, and have spent a considerable amount of time scrubbing the chambers of the used ones I've bought to make 357 extraction manageable. If I want to shoot low powered ammunition out of these, I load low powered ammunition in them.

With that said, if you only ever intend to shoot 38 specials, the above isn't an issue. Even so, I'd suggest something like an S&W Model 10 or Model 66(same as a model 10, but stainless) with a 4" heavy barrel. This makes for a nice, well balanced gun with minimal recoil even with +Ps. I've never handled one that shot badly, and these are plentiful and cheap on the used market. Most of the ones making their way onto the used market now(at least in bulk) are prison guard and security agency guns, which tend to have been carried a lot(and show it) and have been maintained very well but shot very little.

One of my favorite self defense loads for 38 special is the so-called FBI load, a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint loaded to about 850 fps out of an 4" barrel. The Remington version of it tends to be made seasonally, but around here is about $30 for a box of 50, making it inexpensive enough that you can practice with it unlike a lot of other self defense rounds. These are dead-soft lead that have a high likelyhood of expanding, but if they don't are still a semi-wadcutter shape and not a round nose. One other top choice in this caliber is the Speer 135gr +P Short Barrel Gold Dot. From what I understand, this was actually developed for the 4" NYPD service revolvers, but is labeled as a short barrel load because it also gives excellent performance out of a snub.
 
I'll go ahead and tell my 61 yr old sister in California to start sleeping in kevlar pj's with an assault rifle in the bed. I'm sure that's what she really had in mind when she asked me what pistol to get.

As for me, the Glock and my fruit of the loom's will do just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Not my first choice, and actually not for me anyhow. My sister, 61, lives in California. She wants to get a handgun for home defense. Her choices are highly restricted thanks to California gun control laws. It has to be an approved handgun legal to transfer in California, which vastly narrows the choices. I know, because she was originally wanting a sub compact semi-auto either in 9mm, .40s&w, or .45acp. The only ones I could determine were legal in CA were certain model codes of Smith & Wesson Shield and Springfield XD-S. Both fine choices of course.

But as it turns out a semi-auto isn't going to be optimal for her due to some arthritis in her hand causing some potential for problems loading mags and racking slides. We have decided to go the revolver route instead.

I am thinking .44 special over .357 magnum at this point based on recoil and on potential for a 357 round to exit her house and pose a danger to neighbors (not brick construction).

Not a huge fan of Charter Arms but they're about the only ones who still make .44 Specials, and the only .44 Special models on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale ( http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ ) in California. Charter Arms Bull Pup 2.5" snub .44 Special to be exact.

What sayeth BITOG gun slingers?


I have two 44 specials, both 5 shot snub nose. I prefer the heavier stainless to the airweight. They are both very easy weapons to shoot with low perceived recoil especially for the stainless.

My first vote goes first to the 44 specials but not airweight. This is for home defense not carry.

My second vote goes to 38 special or 38 special plus P in a medium frame and 4" tube. See what your sister can handle.

The 44 special will stop criminal activity better than the 38 special.

Finding factory 44 special ammo is getting difficult.
 
Most 9mm revolvers I have seen are small frame snubies. At least in the DA type. They are light and concealable, but probably not the gun your looking for.

I have a 37 airweight I carry with +P critical defense loaded in the chambers. I have large hands, so I replaced the boot grips with a decent size grip I can hold onto. It IS NOT a fun gun to shoot. If you want to turn off a woman from ever shooting a hand gun, I recommend this combination!

Small frame revolvers can be had in 22mag as well. Not optimal, but if it's as much gun as she can handle, it's a compromise. Eight rounds of 22mag are better that screaming, 'No, please don't!' any day. 3-5" barrel preferred.
 
Originally Posted By: Blueskies123
I can never understand recommending a canon for home defense. A 357 mag for someone with arthritis? Will she go the range and put several hundred rounds down range? If she cannot get a 9MM I would go with a 38 but not a P+. If it has to be a 357 have her shoot 38's and not the mags. In any case it has to be something she will can shoot straight. A 357Mag with miss the burglar and go through the next 3 houses.
In any case make sure she goes the the range.


A 357 will NOT go through 3 houses! A very goof friend had an ND at home. 357 Federal Hydra-Shock 135gr. out of a 4" Ruger GP-100. Went through two plaster walls (house is >50 y.o., no wall-board, real plaster on wire mesh) and was DONE. That is why I recommend a Pistol Caliber Carbine. Should you miss, and not hit a window; a normally constructed house will hold a bullet.
OP, I can endorse a High-Point as a HD weapon in 40S&W. It is heavy, and has a spring dampened butt-stock. Inexpensive, easy to feed, lifetime warranty, made in Ohio. Mine has at least 2K rounds through it, and have cleaned it four times. The paint on the upper is worn where the charging handle moves; and I took off the front sight post to mount the red dot. A wonderful gun, well made, fun to shoot.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger

I'll go ahead and tell my 61 yr old sister in California to start sleeping in kevlar pj's with an assault rifle in the bed.


Don't forget the level IV plates, load bearing gear, extra mags and night vision.
 
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