2018 Ford F150 finally recommending 0w oils

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Originally Posted By: advocate
...Anyone using 0w-20 or 0w-30 in their trucks? 5.0, 3.5, 2.7? I'm considering it for my next change on my 2016 5.0 especially with winter around the corner.


it's not a truck, but I'm Running SynPower 0w20 in my Sable (NA 3.5L)...

going by nothing other than the Butt-Dyno, she seems to like it just as well, if not better than the VWB 5w20 that it replaced...
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

Sadly, 99% of F150 owners would not know which 0w30s are thicker than which 5w30s.


I’d say 99.99% won’t know (including me), and they won’t care either (including me). With some of the suspected 5W-20 UOAs we’ve seen in the EB motors (that should be 5W-30), can you imagine the mixes we’ll see now? No one wants to change their oil with the season, so I bet most dealerships just stick with the 5W weights and not try and confuse the customers (or the FNG mechanic doing oil changes in the back).
 
I was looking for some Ecoboost 3.5 UOAs when I stumbled onto this thread.

Questions and observations:

I heard 2018 Ecoboost 3.5 has been "refreshed" so this oil spec change may not apply to older EB's

I am curious about "best oil" for 2015 EB 3.5 that sees months of little-to-no driving then gets a good long hwy trip, followed by some daily twisty and dusty dirt road use with some lo-to-mid gear altitude changes (ie, my "RV" gets a trip to the mountains a couple times a year). If I'm going to venture away from Motorcraft semi-syn, which regularly-available full syn might be best for a turbo DI Motor subjected to those conditions? Evidently I have some rudimentary OLM which I've never seen nor heard from, except while resetting it after my last oil change. I assume it just lights up to tell you when you need to change the oil, instead of providing a percentage at any given point in time. I intend to keep those OC's between 5k and 6k interval, just for the heck of it.

I happen to know about one of those "thick" 0w30's Garak refers to because I run GC (BC) in my turbo Subaru, for better or for worse, but Assume I shouldn't do this to the Ford, at least till out of warranty 3 years from now. That said, I don't see a need to use a "light" 0w30 since I live in Texas, and those mountain trips are not in the winter. But, again, wondering if GTL-base, or mid-to-low SAP, or other "differentiators" matter to a turbo DI engine subjected to the conditions I described? But yes, I am very disappointed with my fuel economy in the Ford, so I'm tempted to give "points" to an RC oil, or "thinner" oil, if it would give me an extra 1 mpg, without increasing wear, or causing other issues given the engine-type. But it needs to meet Ford's "-946" spec for now, though I have no idea what that spec adds to the normal SN ILSAC GL5,

Sorry, probably wandered way off topic but at least my questions are about an EB.
 
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
will there be a trend someday for a thinner than 0w oil like a (-) 5w x 30 oil?

0w-XX oils have a maximum MRV and CCS on SAE J300, not a minimum. So, SAE J300 would have to be revamped. As it is, no matter how thin the oil is at 0w-XX temperatures, it's automatically a 0w-XX.
IF the need ever arises, such revamping wouldn't have to be radical. Simply add a new category ("00W-XX"?) with the same viscosity maximums as 0W-XX, to be measured at even lower temperatures.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
ArcticDriver said:
Which varieties would Ford recommend?

Ford would recommend an SN/GF-5 5w-30, an ILSAC variety, as they have for many years, of course, with their own little proprietary number, too. Something like GC 0w-30 or Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 has a significantly higher HTHS than any of those 5w-30 varieties.

Within Ford recommendations, though, something like M1 0w-30 AFE and M1 5w-30 would be functionally identical for most users, with similar HTHS. [/quote

Still alot to learn.

Thanks !
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: advocate
Looking through the 2018 F150 owners manuals I see that Ford finally has a chart for outside temperatures and oil recommendations. Before it was just 5w-20 for the non turbo engines and 5w-30 for the Ecoboost line. Its about time they got with the times and recommended 0 winter oils for their gas engines! Anyone using 0w-20 or 0w-30 in their trucks? 5.0, 3.5, 2.7? I'm considering it for my next change on my 2016 5.0 especially with winter around the corner.


Old news. My 2017 recommended 0w-30
 
Originally Posted By: Impatient
I was looking for some Ecoboost 3.5 UOAs when I stumbled onto this thread.

Questions and observations:

I heard 2018 Ecoboost 3.5 has been "refreshed" so this oil spec change may not apply to older EB's

I am curious about "best oil" for 2015 EB 3.5 that sees months of little-to-no driving then gets a good long hwy trip, followed by some daily twisty and dusty dirt road use with some lo-to-mid gear altitude changes (ie, my "RV" gets a trip to the mountains a couple times a year). If I'm going to venture away from Motorcraft semi-syn, which regularly-available full syn might be best for a turbo DI Motor subjected to those conditions? Evidently I have some rudimentary OLM which I've never seen nor heard from, except while resetting it after my last oil change. I assume it just lights up to tell you when you need to change the oil, instead of providing a percentage at any given point in time. I intend to keep those OC's between 5k and 6k interval, just for the heck of it.

I happen to know about one of those "thick" 0w30's Garak refers to because I run GC (BC) in my turbo Subaru, for better or for worse, but Assume I shouldn't do this to the Ford, at least till out of warranty 3 years from now. That said, I don't see a need to use a "light" 0w30 since I live in Texas, and those mountain trips are not in the winter. But, again, wondering if GTL-base, or mid-to-low SAP, or other "differentiators" matter to a turbo DI engine subjected to the conditions I described? But yes, I am very disappointed with my fuel economy in the Ford, so I'm tempted to give "points" to an RC oil, or "thinner" oil, if it would give me an extra 1 mpg, without increasing wear, or causing other issues given the engine-type. But it needs to meet Ford's "-946" spec for now, though I have no idea what that spec adds to the normal SN ILSAC GL5,

Sorry, probably wandered way off topic but at least my questions are about an EB.


Gen 2 came out in 2017, if that’s what you’re referring to?
 
I never looked into the 2017’s to see if they recommended 0w oils actually. I should have! I have a 2016 and my dad just got a 2018. Just surprised that it took this long for ford to get with the times.
 
Originally Posted By: leje0306
Originally Posted By: Impatient
I was looking for some Ecoboost 3.5 UOAs when I stumbled onto this thread.

Questions and observations:

I heard 2018 Ecoboost 3.5 has been "refreshed" so this oil spec change may not apply to older EB's

I am curious about "best oil" for 2015 EB 3.5 that sees months of little-to-no driving then gets a good long hwy trip, followed by some daily twisty and dusty dirt road use with some lo-to-mid gear altitude changes (ie, my "RV" gets a trip to the mountains a couple times a year). If I'm going to venture away from Motorcraft semi-syn, which regularly-available full syn might be best for a turbo DI Motor subjected to those conditions? Evidently I have some rudimentary OLM which I've never seen nor heard from, except while resetting it after my last oil change. I assume it just lights up to tell you when you need to change the oil, instead of providing a percentage at any given point in time. I intend to keep those OC's between 5k and 6k interval, just for the heck of it.

I happen to know about one of those "thick" 0w30's Garak refers to because I run GC (BC) in my turbo Subaru, for better or for worse, but Assume I shouldn't do this to the Ford, at least till out of warranty 3 years from now. That said, I don't see a need to use a "light" 0w30 since I live in Texas, and those mountain trips are not in the winter. But, again, wondering if GTL-base, or mid-to-low SAP, or other "differentiators" matter to a turbo DI engine subjected to the conditions I described? But yes, I am very disappointed with my fuel economy in the Ford, so I'm tempted to give "points" to an RC oil, or "thinner" oil, if it would give me an extra 1 mpg, without increasing wear, or causing other issues given the engine-type. But it needs to meet Ford's "-946" spec for now, though I have no idea what that spec adds to the normal SN ILSAC GL5,

Sorry, probably wandered way off topic but at least my questions are about an EB.


Gen 2 came out in 2017, if that’s what you’re referring to?


Yes referring to Gen 2. Though not sure if all Ford trucks got Gen 2 this year. But, I was co-mingling gen2 with 0w. Sorry if wrong.

Any thread you can point me to that discusses best oil attributes for an Ecoboost?
 
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"To improve engine cold start performance, we recommend that you use the following alternative engine oil in extremely cold climates, where the ambient temperature reaches -30 °C or below."
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
If I owned one of those EcoBoost Ford pickup engines I'd certainly look carefully at a couple of UOA's. That's a lot of power from some small engines.

I run Red Line 0w-30 in my V8 4Runner that is driven a lot in the desert and tows a horse trailer on some pretty bad roads. The last UOA I posted here is an indication that I've made a good choice both in the vehicle and the oil. I would not run a Xw-20 weight oil in a work vehicle.


OldOneEye,

Is there a reason you need a 0w rather than just a 10w in your temperatures? Are your night time desert temps that chilly?

Thanks


0w-30 is the same price as 5w-30 or 10w-30 where I get my oil, and none of them have VII's. Here's the theory. 10w-30 might be better than 30W for a cold engine startup even if it's not freezing. With a cold engine, thin is good, very good. A GV, ester base oil might be better at startup, too. So, to continue 5w-30 might be better than 10w-30 and 0w-30 might be better, yet. No one can prove this one way or the other except that the theory is plausible. The testing to determine any difference would be expensive beyond reason. On top of that, the base stock at Red Line might be a tiny bit better for 0w-30. It's at least probably not worse.

Look at the UOA and tell me I'm wrong. There is enough detail there to see how things look. This UOA is typical of several previous UOA's over the years.

Here is a UOA LINK
 
Why do you say that it's better above freezing ?

That's not what the "W" means

Here's the three Redline 30s down to freezing and a bit beyond...


And with an HTHS of 3.2, versus 3.7 for the VII free 5W30, there's not a chance in hades that their 0W30 is VII free.

NOACK of 9 versus 6 indicates the same.

So for some imagined "flow" benefit above, you've got less bearing protection, and 50% higher NOACK.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Why do you say that it's better above freezing ?

That's not what the "W" means

Here's the three Redline 30s down to freezing and a bit beyond...


And with an HTHS of 3.2, versus 3.7 for the VII free 5W30, there's not a chance in hades that their 0W30 is VII free.

NOACK of 9 versus 6 indicates the same.

So for some imagined "flow" benefit above, you've got less bearing protection, and 50% higher NOACK.


Great graphic, Shannow.
9% NOACK is pretty decent, but I can't argue that 6% isn't better...same with the HTHS gain given that their 100C viscosities are pretty close.
Did you run that chart? Any chance of seeing it with a log Y axis scale so the higher temp data isn't washed out?
 
Originally Posted By: CR94
IF the need ever arises, such revamping wouldn't have to be radical. Simply add a new category ("00W-XX"?) with the same viscosity maximums as 0W-XX, to be measured at even lower temperatures.

That would be interesting, but, as you indicate, if the need ever arises. I've functioned quite well with mostly 5w-XX options in my climate, and we have some mighty cold days, and only a few forays into 0w-XX. Nothing's really to stop an oil company from producing a couple "ringer" 0w-XX varieties and promoting their cold numbers. Amsoil, Petro-Canada, and Imperial Oil each have an example or two that perform significantly better than the norm for their grade already. That might be more suitable for a world where the vast majority of the population doesn't need a 5w-XX as it is, much less a 0w-XX or a hypothetical better still cold weather oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Great graphic, Shannow.
9% NOACK is pretty decent, but I can't argue that 6% isn't better...same with the HTHS gain given that their 100C viscosities are pretty close.
Did you run that chart? Any chance of seeing it with a log Y axis scale so the higher temp data isn't washed out?


I agree...the 0W30 Redline is better than just about anything ILSAC IMO on all fronts.

Just it MUST have VII, and Redline's other offerings are better.

That's the Widman charting tool...
http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html

Alas, I don't have the technology to do it in log.

edit...if you are playing, plug in Mobil 1 0W30 AFE and M1 5W30...tell me what you think about "cold starts" and economy from freezing upwards.
 
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FWIW .... I have 2 F150s

2015 Lariat Supercrew 5.0 Coyote - I have been using PUP 5W30 since new (oppose to the 5W20 in the manual)
&
2018 Lariat Supercrew 3.5EB Gen 2 - I dumped the FF at 2000kms and have been running M1 0W30 AFE over this winter.... 10,000kms now.... im thinking of using 0W40 M1 Euro (oppose to 0W30 in the manual)
 
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