0W40 Dilemma

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With all 6.4 Hemi engines going in their heavy duty trucks too I can't imagine no big oil companies will want to capture that market such as Mobil or Castrol.
Well, I got Two years service and I looked 14 qts of the Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 I captured from AutoZone in my garage. By that time if nothing changes or I score good deals, I am going with 10W40.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
With all 6.4 Hemi engines going in their heavy duty trucks too I can't imagine no big oil companies will want to capture that market such as Mobil or Castrol.
I think the point being made in previous posts is that Chyrsler won't allow any other oil maker to meet that spec "officially". We know they meet the spec anyway, because durability testing on those Hemi V8s was originally done on another oil, maybe the old M1 0w40.

Its a little like the Nissan GT-R spec which used to appear on M1 0w40 jugs, except Nissan said they actually used M1 0w40 in all their initial durability testing, and were happy with the way it protected the engine. This Chrysler spec is less meaningful.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
With all 6.4 Hemi engines going in their heavy duty trucks too I can't imagine no big oil companies will want to capture that market such as Mobil or Castrol.
Well, I got Two years service and I looked 14 qts of the Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 I captured from AutoZone in my garage. By that time if nothing changes or I score good deals, I am going with 10W40.


In your warranty booklet, under the section "What is not covered", is section 3.6 Other Exclusions:

Quote:
Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing
damage or conditions caused by any of the following:

...............

using any fluid that doesn’t meet the minimum
recommendations in your Owner’s Manual.


Just understand that risk in the rare event of an oil related failure. Whatever brand 10W-40 you use is also not going to cover you as they will fall back on you not following the manufactures recommendation.

People can internet lawyer the words "Recommended" and "Required" all they want, but it will be you bearing the burden in case of an issue.
 
AMSOIL AZF 0W-40 meets Chrysler MS 12633, so its use cannot affect warranty coverage. Amsoil does back their recommendations. Which means if the dealer tries some stunt, Amsoil will contact FCA or the dealer as necessary.

Using another viscosity, indeed, you are on your own.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
AMSOIL AZF 0W-40 meets Chrysler MS 12633, so its use cannot affect warranty coverage. Amsoil does back their recommendations. Which means if the dealer tries some stunt, Amsoil will contact FCA or the dealer as necessary.


So it meets the requirement as opposed to "recommended for" an application that requires it?
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Pablo
AMSOIL AZF 0W-40 meets Chrysler MS 12633, so its use cannot affect warranty coverage. Amsoil does back their recommendations. Which means if the dealer tries some stunt, Amsoil will contact FCA or the dealer as necessary.


So it meets the requirement as opposed to "recommended for" an application that requires it?


Verbiage and wordplay is everything. Unless I am mistaken, their 0W-40 has not been certified as meeting the MS-12633, just in typical AMSOIL fashion, they are self proclaiming it meets it and are backing up any warranty claims should it come into question when used.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Pablo
AMSOIL AZF 0W-40 meets Chrysler MS 12633, so its use cannot affect warranty coverage. Amsoil does back their recommendations. Which means if the dealer tries some stunt, Amsoil will contact FCA or the dealer as necessary.

So it meets the requirement as opposed to "recommended for" an application that requires it?

Verbiage and wordplay is everything. Unless I am mistaken, their 0W-40 has not been certified as meeting the MS-12633, just in typical AMSOIL fashion, they are self proclaiming it meets it and are backing up any warranty claims should it come into question when used.

And that is fine if that's the case, but the use of "meets" should be used a bit more carefully. That's not how it's worded on the PDS.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn

And that is fine if that's the case, but the use of "meets" should be used a bit more carefully. That's not how it's worded on the PDS.


I agree. It is a good oil regardless and would not have any problems using it from a technical perspective, but to my knowledge, it does not have FCA's stamp of approval.

Only oils that have FCA's stamp of meeting MS-12633 is Pennzoil 0w-40 and the Mopar Ow-40 which is just repackaged Pennzoil 0W-40.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Pablo,

Do you happen to know the specifics behind MS 12633 spec, what it entails, etc.?


I don't have the specification, I have not seen it, but I have asked for the details. Technical people at Amsoil tell me it meets all the technical requirements. It meets the requirements. If FCA says it doesn't they would be wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro


Only oils that have FCA's stamp of meeting MS-12633 is Pennzoil 0w-40 and the Mopar Ow-40 which is just repackaged Pennzoil 0W-40.


And I wonder if that's something that will get FCA in trouble with the Magnuson-Moss Act. If you could prove that it's really the same oil in a different-looking bottle, there really isn't a choice on the market.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Only oils that have FCA's stamp of meeting MS-12633 is Pennzoil 0w-40 and the Mopar Ow-40 which is just repackaged Pennzoil 0W-40.
And I wonder if that's something that will get FCA in trouble with the Magnuson-Moss Act. If you could prove that it's really the same oil in a different-looking bottle, there really isn't a choice on the market.
Nobody wants to bankroll that project-lawsuit. Jaguar does something similar with https://www.jaguar.com/about-jaguar/castrol.html being specified exclusively using spec JLR51.5122, only in a specific Castrol, another sweetheart deal.
 
You guys really need to read up on the Magnuson Moss Warranty act. The actual law and not parroting opinions heard elsewhere. FCA gets around it because they push a specification and not a dealer only supplied oil. By having Pennzoil 0W-40 available, you actually have a option to the Mopar oil. Being from the same supplier is not afoul of MMWA. Also MS-12633 is not just a specification, it is a certification process.

Amsoil may say they meet the spec, but they have not submitted to FCA for their certification that they meet the spec.

Nothing stops any oil maker submitting to FCA for certification if they so choose but no one outside Pennzoil has done it as of yet.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
You guys really need to read up on the Magnuson Moss Warranty act. The actual law and not parroting opinions heard elsewhere. FCA gets around it because they push a specification and not a dealer only supplied oil. By having Pennzoil 0W-40 available, you actually have a option to the Mopar oil. Being from the same supplier is not afoul of MMWA. Also MS-12633 is not just a specification, it is a certification process.

Amsoil may say they meet the spec, but they have not submitted to FCA for their certification that they meet the spec.

Nothing stops any oil maker submitting to FCA for certification if they so choose but no one outside Pennzoil has done it as of yet.

It's actually kind of complicated.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance#do

There are often aftermarket parts like belts, filters, and fluids where the manufacturer isn't supposed to deny warranty coverage simply on the basis of an aftermarket part being used. The FTC says it has to be demonstrable.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
So I bought a New Dodge Challenger with the SRT and being a oil nut I am checking out the oil it specs and I am not happy.
Apparently it takes Pennzoil Ultra 0W40 without any room to deviate. I have read the Challenger sites and alot of people are going with Mobil 1 but Mobil is even saying they don't meet the specs and are claiming European oil standards, same as Castrol. Amsoil skirts the whole thing and just says we cover it but they do they even have certification.
Naturally Pennzoil knows they corner the market and are making thier oil crazy expensive.
I have two years of dealer oil changes but I hope Castrol or Mobil 1 finds it profitable enough to get thier 0W40 Domestic oil out there or Walmart starts selling Pennzoil cheaper because I love doing my bargin oil changes and that's not happening with this engine and oil specs.
Meanwhile I am sitting on more oil than Suadia Arabia for everything else.

Why would you spend all the money on a car like that and cheap out on oil changes? C'mon man.. Save that [censored] for a beater you don't care about! You can pick up Ultra on Amazon for reasonable prices. I can get a 6 qt case of it through a local oil distributor for $50 a case which isn't bad.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
By having Pennzoil 0W-40 available, you actually have a option to the Mopar oil. Being from the same supplier is not afoul of MMWA.
Mopar 0w40 is the same product as Pennzoil 0w40. That's not an "option" as you say. LOL

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Nothing stops any oil maker submitting to FCA for certification if they so choose but no one outside Pennzoil has done it as of yet.

You know that how? Are you an insider?

The real point is, we suspect Chrysler (FCA) has told oil makers "Don't bother trying to certify, we have an exclusive deal with Pennzoil and share the profits." Its not really a difficult concept to master. ...
That may well be a loophole in the Magnusson-Moss like you say. Its anti-competitive at the very least.

It is true Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 is not that unreasonably priced, but not competitive at all with M1 0w40 or CastrolEdge 0w40 in 5-quart jugs.
 
I ll use the Pennzoil Ow40 just because but really the drivetrain warranty is till 60,000 and I am betting you could run any oil in that engine that long. I am confident that other oil manufacturers are going to go after some of the pie since that engine isn't such a rarity but is in all the heavy duty trucks now too.
A oil change on my Hemi truck costs me around $10. Apparently this car is going to cost me around $65.
It's inspiring to drive, but it still sucks.
 
Just FYI, it is spelled "Scat"
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
By having Pennzoil 0W-40 available, you actually have a option to the Mopar oil. Being from the same supplier is not afoul of MMWA.
Mopar 0w40 is the same product as Pennzoil 0w40. That's not an "option" as you say. LOL

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Nothing stops any oil maker submitting to FCA for certification if they so choose but no one outside Pennzoil has done it as of yet.

You know that how? Are you an insider?

The real point is, we suspect Chrysler (FCA) has told oil makers "Don't bother trying to certify, we have an exclusive deal with Pennzoil and share the profits." Its not really a difficult concept to master. ...
That may well be a loophole in the Magnusson-Moss like you say. Its anti-competitive at the very least.

It is true Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 is not that unreasonably priced, but not competitive at all with M1 0w40 or CastrolEdge 0w40 in 5-quart jugs.


Ask for a yearly and insanely high registration fee, and you will get no takers...
 
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