Alex38, I agree with you.
Valvoline Synpower? Not a lot of info on this oil
- Thread starter dedonderosa
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Sodium is an antifreeze inhibitor. Sodium is only use in the lesser oils. Mobil Super has sodium. M1 does not. Valvoline is an inferior oil. I had bad experience using an inferior oil.
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Sodium is in fact predominately used as a detergent in motor oil.
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Sodium is in fact predominately used as a detergent in motor oil.
I think Valvoline SynPower is an underrated oil. Valvoline SynPower and MaxLife Full Synthetic were definitely the smoothest and quietest oils I used in my vehicle.
In fact, I've been considering switching over to MaxLife Full Synthetic after I use up my stash of Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic.
In fact, I've been considering switching over to MaxLife Full Synthetic after I use up my stash of Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic.
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Sodium is an antifreeze inhibitor. Sodium is only use in the lesser oils. Mobil Super has sodium. M1 does not. Valvoline is an inferior oil. I had bad experience using an inferior oil.
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Sodium is in fact predominately used as a detergent in motor oil.
The Oil Troller, you had a "bad experience" with Valvoline MaxLife trans fluid, and use that as a basis to run every Valvoline thread with misinformation and ignorant bias.
I had a "bad experience" with Pennzoil ATF, does that give me the right to say how much Platinum sucks based on nothing?
Plat is an excellent oil and I plan on using it the next OCI...
Sodium is an antifreeze inhibitor. Sodium is only use in the lesser oils. Mobil Super has sodium. M1 does not. Valvoline is an inferior oil. I had bad experience using an inferior oil.
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Sodium is in fact predominately used as a detergent in motor oil.
The Oil Troller, you had a "bad experience" with Valvoline MaxLife trans fluid, and use that as a basis to run every Valvoline thread with misinformation and ignorant bias.
I had a "bad experience" with Pennzoil ATF, does that give me the right to say how much Platinum sucks based on nothing?
Plat is an excellent oil and I plan on using it the next OCI...
Valvoline Syn is nothing special... good nor bad. If it is anything, it is a good oil at a slightly less than stellar price. And that is the problem. Price-wise, it sits next to other "better" oil with better add-packs and UOA/VOAs. In addition, down the shelf and/or down the street are other cheaper oils with as good or better VOA or UOA. So it sits in no-mans land being a good but unremarkable at the upper pricepoint. There is nothing wrong with Valvoline but NAPA (and Royal Purple) are nearly identical but one is 10% more in its pricing and NAPA can be 1/2 the cost. As a result, if I wanted a sodium-synthetic, I would default to NAPA. I have no issues with Valvoline products. I use their gear-oil and ATF... some of their better offerings. Maxlife "high mileage" is also a great offering. It is just that their normal Syn (as well as their white bottle) are the weaker products when compared to the market in their line-up (If you ignore their Nextgen NOACK failures).
Someone mentioned that Mobil5000 is a sodium oil, but Mobil5000 is $10 less per jug.
Someone mentioned that Mobil5000 is a sodium oil, but Mobil5000 is $10 less per jug.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Valvoline Syn is nothing special... good nor bad. If it is anything, it is a good oil at a slightly less than stellar price. And that is the problem. Price-wise, it sits next to other "better" oil with better add-packs and UOA/VOAs. In addition, down the shelf and/or down the street are other cheaper oils with as good or better VOA or UOA. So it sits in no-mans land being a good but unremarkable at the upper pricepoint. There is nothing wrong with Valvoline but NAPA (and Royal Purple) are nearly identical but one is 10% more in its pricing and NAPA can be 1/2 the cost. As a result, if I wanted a sodium-synthetic, I would default to NAPA. I have no issues with Valvoline products. I use their gear-oil and ATF... some of their better offerings. Maxlife "high mileage" is also a great offering. It is just that their normal Syn (as well as their white bottle) are the weaker products when compared to the market in their line-up (If you ignore their Nextgen NOACK failures).
Someone mentioned that Mobil5000 is a sodium oil, but Mobil5000 is $10 less per jug.
So you are going to call it nothing special by the VoA/UOAs and go as far as calling it not "better" Just purely on numbers you read on paper or online. Do you know the repeatability and accuracy of a UOA/VOA of an oil sample? I have seen and sent an oil sample from the same bottle to two different oil analysis company. The variance in numbers was overwhelmingly high. We're talking about greater than 200%. Valvoline is a very very good oil. We've torn apart engines strictly on Valvoline and it has done better than many of the "better" oils. Read my sig buddy!
Valvoline Syn is nothing special... good nor bad. If it is anything, it is a good oil at a slightly less than stellar price. And that is the problem. Price-wise, it sits next to other "better" oil with better add-packs and UOA/VOAs. In addition, down the shelf and/or down the street are other cheaper oils with as good or better VOA or UOA. So it sits in no-mans land being a good but unremarkable at the upper pricepoint. There is nothing wrong with Valvoline but NAPA (and Royal Purple) are nearly identical but one is 10% more in its pricing and NAPA can be 1/2 the cost. As a result, if I wanted a sodium-synthetic, I would default to NAPA. I have no issues with Valvoline products. I use their gear-oil and ATF... some of their better offerings. Maxlife "high mileage" is also a great offering. It is just that their normal Syn (as well as their white bottle) are the weaker products when compared to the market in their line-up (If you ignore their Nextgen NOACK failures).
Someone mentioned that Mobil5000 is a sodium oil, but Mobil5000 is $10 less per jug.
So you are going to call it nothing special by the VoA/UOAs and go as far as calling it not "better" Just purely on numbers you read on paper or online. Do you know the repeatability and accuracy of a UOA/VOA of an oil sample? I have seen and sent an oil sample from the same bottle to two different oil analysis company. The variance in numbers was overwhelmingly high. We're talking about greater than 200%. Valvoline is a very very good oil. We've torn apart engines strictly on Valvoline and it has done better than many of the "better" oils. Read my sig buddy!
Originally Posted By: deven
So you are going to call it nothing special by the VoA/UOAs and go as far as calling it not "better" Just purely on numbers you read on paper or online. Do you know the repeatability and accuracy of a UOA/VOA of an oil sample? I have seen and sent an oil sample from the same bottle to two different oil analysis company. The variance in numbers was overwhelmingly high. We're talking about greater than 200%. Valvoline is a very very good oil. We've torn apart engines strictly on Valvoline and it has done better than many of the "better" oils. Read my sig buddy!
Because oil determines 100% of engine wear... nope sorry, you get the gold star for testing error. If you are making claims about the oil, you must test the "oil".
Read men have extensive training in empirical research methods.
No one says that UOA or VOA are perfect, but looking across multiple reports, you can definitely ID a trend. Especially if every other same might exhibit the same variability. Heck, 2ppm vs 4ppm is 200%... and definable could be within the margin of error. (And you say two sample can make generalizable statements on sample-error.... hilarious. Synpower is not the better performing Syn... not even from a price-point perspective. If it was price lower than PP or M1, then it might be a decent deal. If they could run it consistently at around $4-5per qt, then it would be a BITOG darling. It is good but for M1 or PP money? Nope, not quite. I think the lower TBN numbers after the 5-8K intervals show that it has a limited extended change interval that some of the other major brands can easily achieve. One of my favorite threads (old but good) is this: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551916... same engine, several Syns tested with a few multiple runs. There is nothing "wrong" with Synpower but it looks to be the weakest tested. Heck, the conventional looked better later on. So, is it 100% better than Napa? I don't think so. The difference, if any, is nearly non-existent between NAPA (ashland made) Valvoline, and the lower-spec RP. So if they seem to be testing the same, why pay more for Synpower?
I have had fleet vehicle running on "Correction Services" motor oil that have great looking engines (one was a down-right shocker considering the use). Does that mean that the prisoner-recycled oil is made from unicorn tears? No. Even store-brand and odd label oils are testing and reporting well. So nearly any oil can have a "looks great" tear-down now-a-days if reasonable OCI are followed. As a result, much of what is deemed important can be factored with cost. It is one thing to be the "gold standard" such as M1, or perhaps the best mass market oil via frog-hairs with Pennzoil, but if you are not either of these items but cost the same, what is the point. It is an "also ran" synthetic that can't even claim a better pricepoint. At least other Valvoline product have better market competitiveness. Maxlife ATF is fantastic IMO and their gear oil is pretty darn good and at a better pricepoint.
So you are going to call it nothing special by the VoA/UOAs and go as far as calling it not "better" Just purely on numbers you read on paper or online. Do you know the repeatability and accuracy of a UOA/VOA of an oil sample? I have seen and sent an oil sample from the same bottle to two different oil analysis company. The variance in numbers was overwhelmingly high. We're talking about greater than 200%. Valvoline is a very very good oil. We've torn apart engines strictly on Valvoline and it has done better than many of the "better" oils. Read my sig buddy!
Because oil determines 100% of engine wear... nope sorry, you get the gold star for testing error. If you are making claims about the oil, you must test the "oil".
Read men have extensive training in empirical research methods.
No one says that UOA or VOA are perfect, but looking across multiple reports, you can definitely ID a trend. Especially if every other same might exhibit the same variability. Heck, 2ppm vs 4ppm is 200%... and definable could be within the margin of error. (And you say two sample can make generalizable statements on sample-error.... hilarious. Synpower is not the better performing Syn... not even from a price-point perspective. If it was price lower than PP or M1, then it might be a decent deal. If they could run it consistently at around $4-5per qt, then it would be a BITOG darling. It is good but for M1 or PP money? Nope, not quite. I think the lower TBN numbers after the 5-8K intervals show that it has a limited extended change interval that some of the other major brands can easily achieve. One of my favorite threads (old but good) is this: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551916... same engine, several Syns tested with a few multiple runs. There is nothing "wrong" with Synpower but it looks to be the weakest tested. Heck, the conventional looked better later on. So, is it 100% better than Napa? I don't think so. The difference, if any, is nearly non-existent between NAPA (ashland made) Valvoline, and the lower-spec RP. So if they seem to be testing the same, why pay more for Synpower?
I have had fleet vehicle running on "Correction Services" motor oil that have great looking engines (one was a down-right shocker considering the use). Does that mean that the prisoner-recycled oil is made from unicorn tears? No. Even store-brand and odd label oils are testing and reporting well. So nearly any oil can have a "looks great" tear-down now-a-days if reasonable OCI are followed. As a result, much of what is deemed important can be factored with cost. It is one thing to be the "gold standard" such as M1, or perhaps the best mass market oil via frog-hairs with Pennzoil, but if you are not either of these items but cost the same, what is the point. It is an "also ran" synthetic that can't even claim a better pricepoint. At least other Valvoline product have better market competitiveness. Maxlife ATF is fantastic IMO and their gear oil is pretty darn good and at a better pricepoint.
Valvoline and Walmart's Super Tech (Warren) appear to me to be on the same footing in the marketplace.
And they are both clearly on the second tier.
You don't see Valvoline at the cutting edge of engine oil innovation.
They aren't using GTL or a lot of PAO base stocks.
The difference is you get your money's worth with Super Tech.
If you're going to spend top tier money, get a top tier product from SOPUS or Mobil.
And they are both clearly on the second tier.
You don't see Valvoline at the cutting edge of engine oil innovation.
They aren't using GTL or a lot of PAO base stocks.
The difference is you get your money's worth with Super Tech.
If you're going to spend top tier money, get a top tier product from SOPUS or Mobil.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: deven
So you are going to call it nothing special by the VoA/UOAs and go as far as calling it not "better" Just purely on numbers you read on paper or online. Do you know the repeatability and accuracy of a UOA/VOA of an oil sample? I have seen and sent an oil sample from the same bottle to two different oil analysis company. The variance in numbers was overwhelmingly high. We're talking about greater than 200%. Valvoline is a very very good oil. We've torn apart engines strictly on Valvoline and it has done better than many of the "better" oils. Read my sig buddy!
Because oil determines 100% of engine wear... nope sorry, you get the gold star for testing error. If you are making claims about the oil, you must test the "oil".
Read men have extensive training in empirical research methods.
No one says that UOA or VOA are perfect, but looking across multiple reports, you can definitely ID a trend. Especially if every other same might exhibit the same variability. Heck, 2ppm vs 4ppm is 200%... and definable could be within the margin of error. (And you say two sample can make generalizable statements on sample-error.... hilarious. Synpower is not the better performing Syn... not even from a price-point perspective. If it was price lower than PP or M1, then it might be a decent deal. If they could run it consistently at around $4-5per qt, then it would be a BITOG darling. It is good but for M1 or PP money? Nope, not quite. I think the lower TBN numbers after the 5-8K intervals show that it has a limited extended change interval that some of the other major brands can easily achieve. One of my favorite threads (old but good) is this: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551916... same engine, several Syns tested with a few multiple runs. There is nothing "wrong" with Synpower but it looks to be the weakest tested. Heck, the conventional looked better later on. So, is it 100% better than Napa? I don't think so. The difference, if any, is nearly non-existent between NAPA (ashland made) Valvoline, and the lower-spec RP. So if they seem to be testing the same, why pay more for Synpower?
I have had fleet vehicle running on "Correction Services" motor oil that have great looking engines (one was a down-right shocker considering the use). Does that mean that the prisoner-recycled oil is made from unicorn tears? No. Even store-brand and odd label oils are testing and reporting well. So nearly any oil can have a "looks great" tear-down now-a-days if reasonable OCI are followed. As a result, much of what is deemed important can be factored with cost. It is one thing to be the "gold standard" such as M1, or perhaps the best mass market oil via frog-hairs with Pennzoil, but if you are not either of these items but cost the same, what is the point. It is an "also ran" synthetic that can't even claim a better pricepoint. At least other Valvoline product have better market competitiveness. Maxlife ATF is fantastic IMO and their gear oil is pretty darn good and at a better pricepoint.
You love to skew the numbers your way so much so its comical. You've lost all credibility with me and you sir will go on ignore.
Originally Posted By: deven
So you are going to call it nothing special by the VoA/UOAs and go as far as calling it not "better" Just purely on numbers you read on paper or online. Do you know the repeatability and accuracy of a UOA/VOA of an oil sample? I have seen and sent an oil sample from the same bottle to two different oil analysis company. The variance in numbers was overwhelmingly high. We're talking about greater than 200%. Valvoline is a very very good oil. We've torn apart engines strictly on Valvoline and it has done better than many of the "better" oils. Read my sig buddy!
Because oil determines 100% of engine wear... nope sorry, you get the gold star for testing error. If you are making claims about the oil, you must test the "oil".
Read men have extensive training in empirical research methods.
No one says that UOA or VOA are perfect, but looking across multiple reports, you can definitely ID a trend. Especially if every other same might exhibit the same variability. Heck, 2ppm vs 4ppm is 200%... and definable could be within the margin of error. (And you say two sample can make generalizable statements on sample-error.... hilarious. Synpower is not the better performing Syn... not even from a price-point perspective. If it was price lower than PP or M1, then it might be a decent deal. If they could run it consistently at around $4-5per qt, then it would be a BITOG darling. It is good but for M1 or PP money? Nope, not quite. I think the lower TBN numbers after the 5-8K intervals show that it has a limited extended change interval that some of the other major brands can easily achieve. One of my favorite threads (old but good) is this: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551916... same engine, several Syns tested with a few multiple runs. There is nothing "wrong" with Synpower but it looks to be the weakest tested. Heck, the conventional looked better later on. So, is it 100% better than Napa? I don't think so. The difference, if any, is nearly non-existent between NAPA (ashland made) Valvoline, and the lower-spec RP. So if they seem to be testing the same, why pay more for Synpower?
I have had fleet vehicle running on "Correction Services" motor oil that have great looking engines (one was a down-right shocker considering the use). Does that mean that the prisoner-recycled oil is made from unicorn tears? No. Even store-brand and odd label oils are testing and reporting well. So nearly any oil can have a "looks great" tear-down now-a-days if reasonable OCI are followed. As a result, much of what is deemed important can be factored with cost. It is one thing to be the "gold standard" such as M1, or perhaps the best mass market oil via frog-hairs with Pennzoil, but if you are not either of these items but cost the same, what is the point. It is an "also ran" synthetic that can't even claim a better pricepoint. At least other Valvoline product have better market competitiveness. Maxlife ATF is fantastic IMO and their gear oil is pretty darn good and at a better pricepoint.
You love to skew the numbers your way so much so its comical. You've lost all credibility with me and you sir will go on ignore.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
So nearly any oil can have a "looks great" tear-down now-a-days if reasonable OCI are followed. As a result, much of what is deemed important can be factored with cost. It is one thing to be the "gold standard" such as M1, or perhaps the best mass market oil via frog-hairs with Pennzoil, but if you are not either of these items but cost the same, what is the point. It is an "also ran" synthetic that can't even claim a better pricepoint.
And as far as tearing down engines with both RP and Synpower...strange that these supposedly did well as the both have the high sodium content as a detergent...very strange.
Anyway Mobil I ran a test in the early 90's where by 2 identical vehiclles ran 15K amd 7.5Kmile oil change intervals for 200K miles. At the end of there test all parts were within factory specifications. They ran a million mile test on a BMW and found the engine engine specifications identical to origional
http://www.mr2.com/ARTICLE/Mobil1.html
Would Valvoline oil accomplish this? We don't know bc they have not done it.
So nearly any oil can have a "looks great" tear-down now-a-days if reasonable OCI are followed. As a result, much of what is deemed important can be factored with cost. It is one thing to be the "gold standard" such as M1, or perhaps the best mass market oil via frog-hairs with Pennzoil, but if you are not either of these items but cost the same, what is the point. It is an "also ran" synthetic that can't even claim a better pricepoint.
And as far as tearing down engines with both RP and Synpower...strange that these supposedly did well as the both have the high sodium content as a detergent...very strange.
Anyway Mobil I ran a test in the early 90's where by 2 identical vehiclles ran 15K amd 7.5Kmile oil change intervals for 200K miles. At the end of there test all parts were within factory specifications. They ran a million mile test on a BMW and found the engine engine specifications identical to origional
http://www.mr2.com/ARTICLE/Mobil1.html
Would Valvoline oil accomplish this? We don't know bc they have not done it.
Sodium is used a dispersant, correct? Not an anti-freeze inhibitor.
It is ok, people can ignore reason if they wish (as long as it does not cost ME money), free country.
If you want to look at oils across the range, M1 and PP normally turn it great UOA, NAPA is surprisingly decent for the price along with SuperTech. "My brand" Havoline is normally surprising good especially for the cost (but even I won't argue that it is a M1 level oil but atleast it is not price like it). When it comes to Valvoline, the UOA are not bad (decent), but they are not stellar either. The pricepoint is kinda hard to justify where the it stands out as a top-shelf major brand. At the end of the day, so many common dino oils are so good that tear-downs can be non-events even with regular no-brand dino with proper OCI.
It is ok, people can ignore reason if they wish (as long as it does not cost ME money), free country.
If you want to look at oils across the range, M1 and PP normally turn it great UOA, NAPA is surprisingly decent for the price along with SuperTech. "My brand" Havoline is normally surprising good especially for the cost (but even I won't argue that it is a M1 level oil but atleast it is not price like it). When it comes to Valvoline, the UOA are not bad (decent), but they are not stellar either. The pricepoint is kinda hard to justify where the it stands out as a top-shelf major brand. At the end of the day, so many common dino oils are so good that tear-downs can be non-events even with regular no-brand dino with proper OCI.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Sodium is used a dispersant, correct? Not an anti-freeze inhibitor.
....
Of course it is! Synpower also has a healthy dose of calcium.
As far as the thread, Synpower isn't my first choice but it's still a very good oil. Can anyone say with a straight face their car will go farther on Mobil 1, Pennzoil Plat/Ultra, Edge, etc.?
Sodium is used a dispersant, correct? Not an anti-freeze inhibitor.
....
Of course it is! Synpower also has a healthy dose of calcium.
As far as the thread, Synpower isn't my first choice but it's still a very good oil. Can anyone say with a straight face their car will go farther on Mobil 1, Pennzoil Plat/Ultra, Edge, etc.?
Ashland has become a very good blender IMO. They built a really nice R&D facility and have all the resources to certifiy oils for API licenses.
Some oils are better balanced than others across the board. Some are great a few things, mediocre in other areas.
Valvoline has chosen lately to exploit little gaps in competitor products to market their oils. The latest is this "40% more durable longer lasting anti wear" additive they are using.
Valvoline does work with Lubrizol and uses their additive packages. Mobil was using Na in their lesser tier oils years ago.
There is more than one way to make a good oil. Valvoline's weakness was always TBN retention. It was never that good of a long drain oil and oil analaysis even showed that.
Wear control is very good. Keeping pistons clean under high heat/turbo conditions it was mediocre.
Valvoline is also in the business of suggesting people change their oil every 3k miles. $$
Bottom line, their oils are very good and competitive with the rest. No better, but competitive.
Some oils are better balanced than others across the board. Some are great a few things, mediocre in other areas.
Valvoline has chosen lately to exploit little gaps in competitor products to market their oils. The latest is this "40% more durable longer lasting anti wear" additive they are using.
Valvoline does work with Lubrizol and uses their additive packages. Mobil was using Na in their lesser tier oils years ago.
There is more than one way to make a good oil. Valvoline's weakness was always TBN retention. It was never that good of a long drain oil and oil analaysis even showed that.
Wear control is very good. Keeping pistons clean under high heat/turbo conditions it was mediocre.
Valvoline is also in the business of suggesting people change their oil every 3k miles. $$
Bottom line, their oils are very good and competitive with the rest. No better, but competitive.
So if you guys had to pick between these
5w30 synpower
5w30 castrol edge (syntec blk bottle)
Im assuming castrol would be the better choice as for overall protection
5w30 synpower
5w30 castrol edge (syntec blk bottle)
Im assuming castrol would be the better choice as for overall protection
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Originally Posted By: dedonderosa
So if you guys had to pick between these
5w30 synpower
5w30 castrol edge (syntec blk bottle)
Im assuming castrol would be the better choice as for overall protection
Castrol Edge black bottle.
So if you guys had to pick between these
5w30 synpower
5w30 castrol edge (syntec blk bottle)
Im assuming castrol would be the better choice as for overall protection
Castrol Edge black bottle.
If I was desperate for an oil change (absolutely had to do it) and had the choice between Autozone's $1 BP or Gouger's $10 Valvoline... it would be simple.
Valvoline.
Valvoline.
AUTZONE's $1 bp?
Last edited:
i was thinking black bottle edge.
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