Thankful for law enforcement

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

@dnewton3 wrote law enforcement has under a split second to make life/death and implied other critical decisions.

Leaders are considered the very best if they can make seven to eight out of ten decisions correct. If a leader makes ten out of ten decisions correct, that leader never made a decision, but instead waited for the results of not making a decision and then picked the correct side.

Law enforcement officers do not have the luxury the best leaders have of making seven to eight out of ten decisions correct. Law enforcement officers, under huge duress and confusion in the most challenging situations must make ten out of ten decisions correct, in under a split second.

Law enforcement officers do in fact have an impossible mission.

IDK if it’s impossible, per se. Just hard. For example, fighter pilots need to make very fast decisions under extreme stress with dire consequences too, arguably even more so than police.

I highly recommend the book The Art of Clear Thinking by Hazard Lee. The style of mental training these elite pilots receive should definitely percolate into other professions.

 

[GON]

IDK if it’s impossible, per se. Just hard. For example, fighter pilots need to make very fast decisions under extreme stress with dire consequences too, arguably even more so than police.

We view this very differently.

A pilot has the option of not flying based on weather. A firefighter has the option of letting the structure burn. A law enforcement officer generally doesn't have those luxuries. Not at all.

 

[Astro14]

We disagree on this. A pilot has the option of not flying based on weather. A firefighter has the option of letting the structure burn. A law enforcement officer generally doesn't have those luxuries. Not at all.

We disagree on this.

Fighter pilots are not in a position to exercise that option. We often took extreme risks concerning weather and mission, if the need was great enough.

Once in the air, the fighter pilot may, or may not, have the ability to disengage when the odds are unfavorable.

We often flew missions known as HVACAP. An old term, but it meant loss of the fighter was acceptable as long as the asset was protected. The ROE for executing this mission put the fighter at a big disadvantage.

Our ROE in certain situations, for example Bosnia, required the fighter to let the enemy shoot first before we could engage.

I will let that sink in a bit.

The enemy got to shoot first. Not threaten. Shoot. We were unable to respond until that point.

So, yes, fighter pilots face many of the same stresses and decision making challenges of LEOs. Not all, but many.

And the way we trained, our success, is absolutely germane to many high risk occupations, including, by the way, medicine.

 

[GON]

We disagree on this.

Fighter pilots are not in a position to exercise that option. We often took extreme risks concerning weather and mission, if the need was great enough.

Once in the air, the fighter pilot may, or may not, have the ability to disengage when the odds are unfavorable.

We often flew missions known as HVACAP. An old term, but it meant loss of the fighter was acceptable as long as the asset was protected. The ROE for executing this mission put the fighter at a big disadvantage.

Our ROE in certain situations, for example Bosnia, required the fighter to let the enemy shoot first before we could engage.

I will let that sink in a bit.

The enemy got to shoot first. Not threaten. Shoot. We were unable to respond until that point.

So, yes, fighter pilots face many of the same stresses and decision making challenges of LEOs. Not all, but many.

And the way we trained, our success, is absolutely germane to many high risk occupations, including, by the way, medicine.

I wrongly overlooked military aviation. My thoughtnwas based on commercial aviation. I was wrong and apologize.

 

[Astro14]

I wrongly overlooked military aviation. My thoughtnwas based on commercial aviation. I was wrong and apologize.

I manage risk very differently these days, rest assured.

 

[LDB]

ROE are often moronic because morons are in charge. ROE? Eliminate all the enemy without losing anyone by whatever means required to accomplish the task. Wait for the enemy to shoot first? Moronic. Anyone giving that order should be replaced.

 

[Astro14]

ROE are often moronic because morons are in charge. ROE? Eliminate all the enemy without losing anyone by whatever means required to accomplish the task. Wait for the enemy to shoot first? Moronic. Anyone giving that order should be replaced.

The person giving that order was re-elected the next year. We serve at the pleasure of elected officials. Who often lack any tactical understanding of what they are ordering people to do.

 

[LDB]

The person giving that order was re-elected the next year. We serve at the pleasure of elected officials. Who often lack any tactical understanding of what they are ordering people to do.

Yes, sadly the ultimate decisions are often in the wrong hands.

 

[bbhero]

Here is my thought on law enforcement. We need law officers to enforce the law and keep society civil. But, I don't like the anti cop movement of the past few years but I also hate the cop praising that is going on, too. Like getting a special discount if you're a first responder if you shop here. That has also spread to the medical professional crowd with some retailers and services. Like a BSN or an MD is underpaid. Let's quit putting certain occupations on a higher plateau and treat everyone with the same respect they deserve.

Easy to say what you say from the safety of your living room or bedroom in a rather nice low crime area.

I just saw a body cam video the other day of a young police officer was following a car with no headlights on very late at night. Then getting out of his vehicle and soon as he gets out you see sparks flying all around him and then he starts shooting back in the direction of where he thought the shots were coming from… That young guy got hit in his chest and abdomen.

5 … 5 people ambushed him and shot at him.

His fellow police officer showed up and found him laying on the ground.. On his KNEES he drug the mortally injured young police officer 200 feet to safety…

The video continues and eventually the young man goes quiet… His color is clearly different… He’s dead… I know what dead looks like… All normal color is gone…. Instantly….Another police cruiser shows up and they put in there and race off to the hospital.

He’s dead on arrival.


Yeah.. I believe that certain “ professions” deserve a bit more “ respect “ than others.

There are three types of “ respect” in my opinion… Universal respect that I should treat ALL people with. I talk to people very well and make a real effort to make sure they are doing ok.

The 2nd “respect “ is for what people are and what they do and what they have achieved in their lives. Yeah as a rule I have more professional respect for a Doctor versus a RN or a CNA or a fast food worker.

The 3rd level of “respect” is for me actually really knowing a person and what they are about and how they typically handle themselves and how they treat other people.

If someone gains all 3 levels of respect from me then that person is a heck of a real deal person.

I have tremendous respect for police officers and firefighters and military personnel.

I believe physicians and specialists within that discipline deserve a good amount of respect too.

I respect business owners who are successful and do well… That is not an easy thing to do.

I also respect anyone who works hard doing any job AND that they are good at it. No matter what line of work it maybe.

I treat people at Wendy’s fast food restaurant near me with a lot personal respect. I treat 7-11 workers with that same level of respect. Those people who work at both those place’s always enjoy seeing me. And I enjoy seeing them and talk with them.

I have dealt with a couple of number2 exit police officers in my time… They were just as irritating and tremendously annoying as some of the RNs I have worked with…

I got to know a strong majority of the police officers from my home county of Gloucester. 90 plus percent of those officers were good people. Candidly about 75-80 of RNs I worked with I would say the same about.

All professions have bad apples in them. Walmart workers, Mc Donald’s fast food workers, garbage collectors, Amazon drivers, real estate brokers, lawyers, CNAs, RNs, MDs, PTs etc etc.

 

[grisby]

Great post @bbhero

 

[SeaJay]

My basic motto is that everyone should be treated the same as everyone else when it comes to anything.

 

[LDB]

My dad taught me early on to respect everyone, especially my elders. He taught me they deserved respect because they exist. He said there would be people saying "respect must be earned" and I was to ignore them because they were wrong and didn't know what they were talking about. He taught me not respecting someone must be earned. From the moment someone was introduced they were to be respected until they did something to show they didn't deserve to be respected and earned ambivalence.

 

[bbhero]

My basic motto is that everyone should be treated the same as everyone else when it comes to anything.

Yes in terms of Universal or general respect.

 

[Number_35]

The person giving that order was re-elected the next year. We serve at the pleasure of elected officials. Who often lack any tactical understanding of what they are ordering people to do.

I believe the president at the time was the first one who had not served in the military.

However, I've heard that the ROE in Vietnam were similar - US pilots were not allowed to fire on North Vietnamese aircraft, including fighters, if those enemy fighters had their gear down. That apparently came directly from LBJ, who had served (although more in an administrative role) during WWII.