So whatever became of deflategate?

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Wolf359

You should read the deflategate wiki. There was only one ball that was under 2 PSI. Gronk spiked a ball. There was also an official selling game balls and was later fired. The other balls were 11.5 PSI. They were at the proper pressure when they were tested inside. If you read the rules, it doesn't really state what the temperature and pressure should be when they're tested so they were in spec at one point. The rules don't actually have a spec for weather.

There were also some initial miscalculations on the pressure drop, it's 12.5-13.5 psi inside the ball, but you also need to account for the atmospheric pressure when doing the calculations so some initial reports that said that the temperature drop wasn't enough to account for it later corrected themselves and said yes it was possible.

I think Mr. Kraft is still waiting for an apology.


Contradicts everything I have seen reported. 10 of the 12 balls were in the 2 PSI range off not just 1. Gronk spiking the ball is 100% immaterial.

Mr. Kraft will have a long wait I think. Even if they can't prove it I seriously doubt any apology is coming as the balls were under.

If the Colts were caught cheating with the ball air pressure during the game would you be so willing to dismiss it? I think not. Patriot's fans make me laugh the way their team can do no wrong but they sure do cry when something goes against them.


You had to really follow the story. I think if you read all the stuff that first came out, it all changed later. The stuff on there now is pretty much the sum of all the reporting that was done. The initial reports were that it was more balls and the 2 psi number. The later reports was just one ball and just one psi for the rest of them.

It's why juries have to listen to all the evidence and it's funny when lay people have a different opinion because they didn't listen to all the evidence so they only have part of the story.

I guess Mr. Kraft won't get an apology from you either?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I still want to know what method the teams use to inflate the ball and what they use to measure the pressure. How often are the gauges calibrated because I have two digital gauges at home that read at least 1 psi difference and they are both fairly new.


This is my understanding of the procedure...

At some point a few hours before the game starts each team preps their 12 footballs for offense( they also have separate kicking footballs - not sure what the rules on those are ). I would assume they use a standard pump and gauge like all sports teams would with an inflated ball. The footballs are submitted to the game officials for testing.

The officials measure the PSI on all 12 footballs with an AP gauge to see if they are within league rules/spec( 12.5 - 13.5 PSI ). They allow the footballs if they are in spec. The officials also initial each football after they check them indicating they were inspected and passed. If a football is not in spec it is returned to the team to be "fixed"( if over inflated I guess they will/can lower the PSI themselves into compliance ). Damaged footballs, or footballs that are worn out( they aren't always brand new ), will also be rejected at this inspection as well.

It really doesn't matter what the teams use to inflate the balls and check the pressure prior to that official inspection. It is what the Ref's measure them at during the official pregame inspection that matters. During the game the teams have no business messing with the PSI.

Once the balls are inspected and approved they are returned to a team appointed ball attendant who stores them securely until game time in the facility. I believe they are allowed to be taken onto the field by the teams like an hour before game time or so. The ball attendants are the ones who give the ref's the balls during the game when asked for( this is yet another issue with deflategate as the guy on the field - at least at one point - giving the ref balls for the Patriot's was not the proper ball attendant ).

I don't know if this is the info you wanted or not? As I said though what the teams use really is irrelevant( guilt wise anyway )because the game officials check them independently and it only matters what they say the PSI is. Once that check is done the teams shouldn't be altering the PSI which is what is at the heart of deflategate.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Curious if the Colts will be on NE schedule this year
I want to see that game


Since both teams are division champs yes. I as a Colts fan knowing their defense is anchored by a bunch of daises I do not want to NE run down the Colts throat for a 4th consecutive game.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I still want to know what method the teams use to inflate the ball and what they use to measure the pressure. How often are the gauges calibrated because I have two digital gauges at home that read at least 1 psi difference and they are both fairly new.


This is my understanding of the procedure...

At some point a few hours before the game starts each team preps their 12 footballs for offense( they also have separate kicking footballs - not sure what the rules on those are ). I would assume they use a standard pump and gauge like all sports teams would with an inflated ball. The footballs are submitted to the game officials for testing.

The officials measure the PSI on all 12 footballs with an AP gauge to see if they are within league rules/spec( 12.5 - 13.5 PSI ). They allow the footballs if they are in spec. The officials also initial each football after they check them indicating they were inspected and passed. If a football is not in spec it is returned to the team to be "fixed"( if over inflated I guess they will/can lower the PSI themselves into compliance ). Damaged footballs, or footballs that are worn out( they aren't always brand new ), will also be rejected at this inspection as well.

It really doesn't matter what the teams use to inflate the balls and check the pressure prior to that official inspection. It is what the Ref's measure them at during the official pregame inspection that matters. During the game the teams have no business messing with the PSI.

Once the balls are inspected and approved they are returned to a team appointed ball attendant who stores them securely until game time in the facility. I believe they are allowed to be taken onto the field by the teams like an hour before game time or so. The ball attendants are the ones who give the ref's the balls during the game when asked for( this is yet another issue with deflategate as the guy on the field - at least at one point - giving the ref balls for the Patriot's was not the proper ball attendant ).

I don't know if this is the info you wanted or not? As I said though what the teams use really is irrelevant( guilt wise anyway )because the game officials check them independently and it only matters what they say the PSI is. Once that check is done the teams shouldn't be altering the PSI which is what is at the heart of deflategate.


I think the problem is that you are jumping to conclusions. What you said was correct. However the ref checks the pressure of the ball in a room that's probably in the 70's. If the pressure of the pats ball was at 12.5, when they're moved out to the game where the temperature was in the 50's, then a 1 psi drop due to the temperature drop is quite normal, just run it through Boyle's law. And that's the pressure that most of the balls were at except for one. One was a game ball that was low by 2 psi, who knows what happened to it, players fall on balls and grip them hard and spike them. Plus they're regular production balls used in a game, who knows what the QC is like on each ball. One ball was also handled by the colts, the one they intercepted. Jury is still out. Why are all the executioners here?

Juries acquit all the time. I was on one once, we felt the guy was guilty but there wasn't enough evidence to convict. Same thing here, you have one anomaly, but no actual proof that anyone actually did anything. The assumption is on your part that someone had to have done something, but there are other explanations for what happened. When all you have is hammer, everything looks like a nail. I think the media blew it a bit out of proportion, they're just trying to generate sales or eyeballs.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I still want to know what method the teams use to inflate the ball and what they use to measure the pressure. How often are the gauges calibrated because I have two digital gauges at home that read at least 1 psi difference and they are both fairly new.


This is my understanding of the procedure...

At some point a few hours before the game starts each team preps their 12 footballs for offense( they also have separate kicking footballs - not sure what the rules on those are ). I would assume they use a standard pump and gauge like all sports teams would with an inflated ball. The footballs are submitted to the game officials for testing.

The officials measure the PSI on all 12 footballs with an AP gauge to see if they are within league rules/spec( 12.5 - 13.5 PSI ). They allow the footballs if they are in spec. The officials also initial each football after they check them indicating they were inspected and passed. If a football is not in spec it is returned to the team to be "fixed"( if over inflated I guess they will/can lower the PSI themselves into compliance ). Damaged footballs, or footballs that are worn out( they aren't always brand new ), will also be rejected at this inspection as well.

It really doesn't matter what the teams use to inflate the balls and check the pressure prior to that official inspection. It is what the Ref's measure them at during the official pregame inspection that matters. During the game the teams have no business messing with the PSI.

Once the balls are inspected and approved they are returned to a team appointed ball attendant who stores them securely until game time in the facility. I believe they are allowed to be taken onto the field by the teams like an hour before game time or so. The ball attendants are the ones who give the ref's the balls during the game when asked for( this is yet another issue with deflategate as the guy on the field - at least at one point - giving the ref balls for the Patriot's was not the proper ball attendant ).

I don't know if this is the info you wanted or not? As I said though what the teams use really is irrelevant( guilt wise anyway )because the game officials check them independently and it only matters what they say the PSI is. Once that check is done the teams shouldn't be altering the PSI which is what is at the heart of deflategate.


I think the problem is that you are jumping to conclusions. What you said was correct. However the ref checks the pressure of the ball in a room that's probably in the 70's. If the pressure of the pats ball was at 12.5, when they're moved out to the game where the temperature was in the 50's, then a 1 psi drop due to the temperature drop is quite normal, just run it through Boyle's law. And that's the pressure that most of the balls were at except for one. One was a game ball that was low by 2 psi, who knows what happened to it, players fall on balls and grip them hard and spike them. Plus they're regular production balls used in a game, who knows what the QC is like on each ball. One ball was also handled by the colts, the one they intercepted. Jury is still out. Why are all the executioners here?

Juries acquit all the time. I was on one once, we felt the guy was guilty but there wasn't enough evidence to convict. Same thing here, you have one anomaly, but no actual proof that anyone actually did anything. The assumption is on your part that someone had to have done something, but there are other explanations for what happened. When all you have is hammer, everything looks like a nail. I think the media blew it a bit out of proportion, they're just trying to generate sales or eyeballs.


You have a right to your opinion. I completely disagree this is all media hype and is overblown. The Patriot's under BB have a history of cheating and pushing things beyond the line into gray areas. This is just another case of cheating. They may get away with it. As you said you can know someone is guilty and not have legal proof.

I personally do believe that someone on the Patriot's tampered with the balls to assist the Patriot's RB's and Receivers with grip because it was raining. That is my opinion. Just because I liver here in their home base area doesn't mean they get a free pass from me for wrong doing as is the case with so many fans.

So far as your "other explanations" go they are just ways to try and confuse and muddy the situation not to explain what happened. Gronk spiked the ball, the 50 degree weather made the PSI drop, etc... all lame excuses.

Believe what you want I will do the same.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
You have a right to your opinion. I completely disagree this is all media hype and is overblown. The Patriot's under BB have a history of cheating and pushing things beyond the line into gray areas. This is just another case of cheating. They may get away with it. As you said you can know someone is guilty and not have legal proof.

I personally do believe that someone on the Patriot's tampered with the balls to assist the Patriot's RB's and Receivers with grip because it was raining. That is my opinion. Just because I liver here in their home base area doesn't mean they get a free pass from me for wrong doing as is the case with so many fans.

So far as your "other explanations" go they are just ways to try and confuse and muddy the situation not to explain what happened. Gronk spiked the ball, the 50 degree weather made the PSI drop, etc... all lame excuses.

Believe what you want I will do the same.


It's overblown because look at Atlanta, they admitted to pipping in extra loud crowd noise. Extra noise does have an affect on a game, typically if the teams are evenly matched, the advantage goes to the home team. They were clearly cheating and admitted it. Didn't get that much press as this has.

Here, so far no one has been caught actually doing anything and there's no actual evidence of anyone actually have done something. You don't buy the temperature drop, but it's a very valid explanation for the 1 psi drop. The only window where someone could have done something was when the guy carrying the balls went to the bathroom for 90 seconds. Is that enough time to drop all balls 1 psi? Take them out of the bag, make sure only 1 psi drops, put them back in. And that one didn't confess to anything. I think a lower level employee might be more likely to confess to something as they wouldn't do it on their own. And if that actually happened, all you have to do is put 12.5 psi into a ball at room temperature and see that it's 11.5 psi at 50 degrees. So if an employee actually tampered with the ball, wouldn't the pressure actually be lower? Somehow it seems you don't believe this. Something tells me you're not a man of science.

"Try and confuse and muddy the situation". Again what exactly is the situation? Do you have other information that no one else knows about or have you just made up you mind and don't want to be confused with facts? I have an engineering degree and have taken plenty of chemistry classes. I don't have a problem with the pressure drop due to temperature. Rules don't actually specify a temperature and pressure that the ball is supposed to be at. Normally when you have a spec in engineering, it's at some standard pressure and temperature, when you're outside of those, there's some curve that explains what it's supposed to be. Have you ever run into that?

 

[Vikas]

Why do you bring science or engineering equation to muddy the waters? You have been here now more than three years. You should know that the collective intelligence of the BITOG does not stand for those fancy equations

If you wanted to have intelligent conversation, you came to wrong place my friend! Here we excel in innuendos and bad science :-(

 

[whip]

You can post all the science you want. The Colts balls were legal, the Patriots weren't. Why is that so difficult to those posting the science lessons?

Also, to those that claim this will be swept under the rug, a simple google search reveals multiple links saying it's still being investigated. I doubt the punishment will be much, but the NFL can't let the Patriots walk on this. They already have too many PR nightmares to deal with.

 

[Dallas69]

Does anyone here think that going into this game that NE thought yhat they needed to cheat in order to beat the Colts again?
I dont think so,it would be very stupid
BB might be many things but stupid is not one of them

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: whip
You can post all the science you want. The Colts balls were legal, the Patriots weren't. Why is that so difficult to those posting the science lessons?

Also, to those that claim this will be swept under the rug, a simple google search reveals multiple links saying it's still being investigated. I doubt the punishment will be much, but the NFL can't let the Patriots walk on this. They already have too many PR nightmares to deal with.


The flaw is in the rules. They don't mention a temperature and pressure that the balls are measured at. Ever notice how even though you put air in your tires, the pressure drops in the winter? Or increases after driving which is why they tell you to check it cold? Same thing going on here. To say that the colts are legal and the pats aren't is to just close your eyes as to why. It's still being investigated so no new evidence has been mentioned. With that in mind, I'm just keeping an open mind either way. It doesn't sound like they have anything and I don't think anything will happen unless more evidence comes to light. Nor should anything happen because it doesn't sound like anyone was trying to cheat as the evidence has been released so far doesn't indicate anything. Just a badly written rule that doesn't take into account environmental factors. Some are say that they should be done before the draft because if there's any punishments, it will probably involve draft picks.

 

[Burt]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Does anyone here think that going into this game that NE thought yhat they needed to cheat in order to beat the Colts again?
I dont think so,it would be very stupid
BB might be many things but stupid is not one of them


Did Nixon need the Watergate Break-in to beat McGovern?

Did Martha Stewart need to make a profit from insider trading to get rich?

Did the Pats need to steal signals to beat all their opponents?

Its a culture, not need driven.

 

[VNTS]

I think Head Smart labs showed how the PSI naturally changes versus Temp and kind of deflated deflategate..

NFL doesnt have a real policy, teams submit the balls, Refs are supposed to check pressures, correct if needed and then control the ball til game time.

None of that was done, probably at best squeeze test, initial pressures and temps unknown, League officail steals ball etc

Also, a NFL Leauge official who handles the balls after the Refs check them pre-game, admitted stealing one the 12 balls so he could E-bay it.

Oh wasnt a former Jet flunky on site basically trying to stir up stuff, but basically all this has blown up in the Goodells(Former Jet Flunky) face.

Nothing to see here, if there was they would of come out with this by now.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
I think Head Smart labs showed how the PSI naturally changes versus Temp and kind of deflated deflategate..

NFL doesnt have a real policy, teams submit the balls, Refs are supposed to check pressures, correct if needed and then control the ball til game time.

None of that was done, probably at best squeeze test, initial pressures and temps unknown, League officail steals ball etc

Also, a NFL Leauge official who handles the balls after the Refs check them pre-game, admitted stealing one the 12 balls so he could E-bay it.

Oh wasnt a former Jet flunky on site basically trying to stir up stuff, but basically all this has blown up in the Goodells(Former Jet Flunky) face.

Nothing to see here, if there was they would of come out with this by now.




Nope. If there was nothing to see the NFL would have cleared NE of any wrong doing. NE will get another slap of the wrist like the forfeiture of a draft pick and a fine that a Billionaire could find in the ashtray of his car.

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: loneryder
They swept it under the rug until after the SB. What I heard was they concluded that only 1 ball was under inflated. The others were a little low. The balls were filled and checked in a warm building and the cold temps outside caused the pressure to lower. Scientists ran experiments to show that. It was all a bunch of horse manure from the media!


You apparently didn't read NEHEMIs post about how all of NEs balls were under inflated except one, and all of Indy's balls were properly inflated, and the balls of both teams were exposed to exactly the same temps and elements...this proves that NEs balls were PURPOSELY deflated...

The final report issued by the NFL without much fanfare, stated that only one ball was really under inflated. It didn't really matter because once all the balls were properly inflated at halftime, Brady lit the colts up in the 2nd half. So how did it help them in the first half?
What no one is talking about is the fantastic play made by that rookie def. back. He had studied film and saw that formation was a pattern of theirs. He made an unbelievable play, gambled all or nothing. And on that unreal catch the play before, he couldn't have played it any better, and then had presence of mind to see that he caught it and get up and knock him out of bounds. Or game over.