So I got the Michelin Defender 2

[Sequoiasoon]

Just as a reference. I was at Costco on Friday getting my Defender LTX M/S's rebalanced. The "base" Bridgestone they now carry is the Weatherpeak. It used to be the Ecopia 422. The guy said they can get them but would need to order. He said most people that got them were getting because of OE version or turning lease vehicles in etc.

The CC2 and WeatherPeak they had good stock size selections.

 

[edyvw]

Agreed, the old adage “all seasons aren’t good at anything” is obsolete. 10 or so years ago this may have been true, but not anymore. I would not be surprised if the newer top level all seasons match both dedicated summer and winter tire performance of tires 10 or so years ago.

Here is an interesting test, and the difference between performance-oriented tires and CC2 and Defender is huge:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=270

However, while AS4 is very capable tire in dry and wet, the difference is that PS4S is more stout at high G situations and won't get damaged. There is more to it than just braking distance etc.

 

[edyvw]

Just as a reference. I was at Costco on Friday getting my Defender LTX M/S's rebalanced. The "base" Bridgestone they now carry is the Weatherpeak. It used to be the Ecopia 422. The guy said they can get them but would need to order. He said most people that got them were getting because of OE version or turning lease vehicles in etc.

The CC2 and WeatherPeak they had good stock size selections.

Well, people want "one size fits all" solutions. I mean, considering investment into tires, that is understandable. Costco will stock what sells.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Which is fine. Your initial statement which I replied to indicates the best performance in possible situations. That indicates best performance in wet situations, dry etc. Any given one.

Incorrect, you were mistaken.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Here is an interesting test, and the difference between performance-oriented tires and CC2 and Defender is huge:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=270

However, while AS4 is very capable tire in dry and wet, the difference is that PS4S is more stout at high G situations and won't get damaged. There is more to it than just braking distance etc.

Those tests clearly show how good the CC2s are. Best in winter, very close to a performance tire in dry, and only slightly worse than a performance tire in wet cornering. Look at the axes on the graphs. They don't all start at 0. That data clearly demonstrates what I have been saying the whole time. They are the best all-round real-world street tire out there, as demonstrated by having the highest final score in the test. CC2s got 7.83 overall and the next highest, 4s, got 7.75.

I think we can put this to bed. I would encourage you to get some first-hand experience.

 

[Wheel366]

It is all about individual needs. I would run on a BMW Michelin PS4S, but Colorado in the morning is already in 40's, and evenings get cold fast. So, I need something that has good handling capabilities in the cold too, and performance AS tires like DWS06, or Michelin Pilot 3+ AS I have on Tiguan are the way to go. If I still lived in San Diego or Alabama, I would run performance summer tires, but they lose performance below 60 degrees fast. Once snow hits, I just switch to snow tires.

I forgot to mention, I did have dedicated snows after that first winter for my S. Now, with 4 cars I can't justify additional sets of tires and rims nor do I have the space for them. If I could though, I would be happy to get snows for the added safety.

 

[edyvw]

Those tests clearly show how good the CC2s are. Best in winter, very close to a performance tire in dry, and only slightly worse than a performance tire in wet cornering. Look at the axes on the graphs. They don't all start at 0. That data clearly demonstrates what I have been saying the whole time. They are the best all-round real-world street tire out there, as demonstrated by having the highest final score in the test. CC2s got 7.83 overall and the next highest, 4s, got 7.75.

I think we can put this to bed. I would encourage you to get some first-hand experience.

They are behind 4sec on track in wet. That is a BIG difference!
Take a look at winter tire testing. Same car and size:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=263

Blizzaks WS90 have 0.01 higher G load in wet, and 0.01 lower in dry.
Actually, Blizzaks are better in wet braking by good margin, which should not be the case considering the ice performance of Blizzaks.
In dry, they have the same braking distance, 1 ft difference.

On paper, this all looks small, but actually the fact that CC2 has worse stopping distance than dedicated winter tire in wet or similar in dry, is not something to get excited over.

I will, though encourage you to get some first-hand experience with dedicated summer tires in summer and winter in winter.
Give me CC2 on BMW< and I will wear them out in one summer. I drove them on numerous cars, winter, summer, whatever.
I would think that a braking distance of 20ft matters, but apparently, for some people, that is absolutely fine.

 

[edyvw]

Incorrect, you were mistaken.

Then, be more specific.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

They are behind 4sec on track in wet. That is a BIG difference!
Take a look at winter tire testing. Same car and size:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=263

Blizzaks WS90 have 0.01 higher G load in wet, and 0.01 lower in dry.
Actually, Blizzaks are better in wet braking by good margin, which should not be the case considering the ice performance of Blizzaks.
In dry, they have the same braking distance, 1 ft difference.

How many times do I have to repeat myself here? You keep arguing that other tires are better in some situations. Sure, of course they are. Why are you still talking about this?

On paper, this all looks small, but actually the fact that CC2 has worse stopping distance than dedicated winter tire in wet or similar in dry, is not something to get excited over.

Yes, it is. No winter tire can come close in wet or dry warm weather performance. Just because you think that your use case of swapping out tires on sporty cars is superior doesn't mean there is no use case for the CC2 and it doesn't mean that the CC2 isn't a phenomenal tire for real cars driving around in the real world.

Every time you're driving around on warm, dry roads in Colorado with winter tires you're sacrificing performance. Every time you get caught in cold, snowy weather on summer or even performance-tuned all season tires you're sacrificing performance.

You have spent the better part of this thread jumping down my throat for what amounts to semantics. The link you provided clearly shows what I said to be true: best overall, when considering all conditions. If you think you can minimize the amount of time you spend driving around on the suboptimal tire for the conditions, great. I'd venture to say that's going to be hard the minute you start driving in the mountains and encounter sunny and 60 alongside snowy and 30 in one trip. Maybe carry around the spare wheels in the trunk.

For people who want traction in all real world situations, the CC2 is fantastic and actually does have very few compromises in real-world driving.

 

[edyvw]

How many times do I have to repeat myself here? You keep arguing that other tires are better in some situations. Sure, of course they are. Why are you still talking about this?


Yes, it is. No winter tire can come close in wet or dry warm weather performance. Just because you think that your use case of swapping out tires on sporty cars is superior doesn't mean there is no use case for the CC2 and it doesn't mean that the CC2 isn't a phenomenal tire for real cars driving around in the real world.

Every time you're driving around on warm, dry roads in Colorado with winter tires you're sacrificing performance. Every time you get caught in cold, snowy weather on summer or even performance-tuned all season tires you're sacrificing performance.

You have spent the better part of this thread jumping down my throat for what amounts to semantics. The link you provided clearly shows what I said to be true: best overall, when considering all conditions. If you think you can minimize the amount of time you spend driving around on the suboptimal tire for the conditions, great. I'd venture to say that's going to be hard the minute you start driving in the mountains and encounter sunny and 60 alongside 29 and snow in one trip.

For people who want traction in all real world situations, the CC2 is fantastic and actually does have very few compromises in real-world driving.

View attachment 177751View attachment 177750

Did you actually read the data, or were you just too lazy and jumped on the overall rating?
Wet and dry braking, as well as cornering force proves that it is first and foremost compromise. And absolutely, it fits needs of many people, including many people in CO, that stay home during blizzards, bcs. they do not need snow tire, until they do.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

All tires are a compromise. You don’t see value in the particular compromises of the CC2, even though the sum of the capabilities are very strong.

Move on.

 

[Silver Samurai]

Looking to get the Michelin CC2 for my wife’s 2018 AWD Honda Pilot…Trying to decide if I should give Costco another chance.

 

[Looger]

I see there is some spirited discussion!
No worries, as long as there are no hard feelings, it is all good.

Stopped by the DT yesterday. They corrected the mileage and informed me that I have 30 days to decide if I want different tires.

They were surprised I was reporting harshness, as the tires have been very well received.
I mentioned that my wife's CRV was transformed, and they commented that it is the "same" tire that is in my car.
I politely stated that her tires had much more sidewall and internal volume, which likely provided more comfort.
They said I could go up a little in size without detriment. I wasn't interested.
I'm having the Defenders rebalanced on Wednesday because there is a noise/vibration that I'm pretty sure is mechanical (baseline noise worsened after new tires, which means the new tires are quieter than the old ones).
I know all tires are a compromise, and was ok with trading some weather performance for quietness and smooth ride, since I spend a lot of time in the car, but not a huge amount in bad weather, where additional performance may be welcome.
That said, my area of Michigan can have snow on the ground for about 6 months of the year, but not usually huge amounts. The roads are usually cleared well, and I've been driving here for 38 years.
I thought that it may be best to have as much performance as possible: prepare for the worst (horrible weather, emergency maneuvers) and hope for the best.
I was nearly set on the CC2, but thought it wouldn't have any advantage for 90% of my driving, and it would likely be louder, harsher, and ding my MPG.
We drove from MI to the Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge area earlier this year. Four people, loaded trunk, about 1500mi round trip, and over 18hrs drive. Loud, droning, harsh tires would have sucked.
We ran into torrential downpours on the way back home and the nearly worn PureContacts handled great.

I considered the DWS06 plus, but the PureContact LS (70k rated) only lasted 40k miles...so the DWS (50k rated) might last 30k? Ouch.

I have more thinking to do.
I knew I would have to give something up.
If the CC2 is as quiet as the D2 (not likely), but rides the same (firm), then the gain in weather capabilities might be worth the loss of comfort.
But louder AND harsh? Yuck.

Bob

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Stopped by the DT yesterday. They corrected the mileage and informed me that I have 30 days to decide if I want different tires.

I have more thinking to do.
I knew I would have to give something up.
If the CC2 is as quiet as the D2 (not likely), but rides the same (firm), then the gain in weather capabilities might be worth the loss of comfort.
But louder AND harsh? Yuck.

Bob

Ask if the 30 day policy would apply again to the CC2's if you put them on in place of the D2's.

 

[FZ1]

I see there is some spirited discussion!
No worries, as long as there are no hard feelings, it is all good.

Stopped by the DT yesterday. They corrected the mileage and informed me that I have 30 days to decide if I want different tires.

They were surprised I was reporting harshness, as the tires have been very well received.
I mentioned that my wife's CRV was transformed, and they commented that it is the "same" tire that is in my car.
I politely stated that her tires had much more sidewall and internal volume, which likely provided more comfort.
They said I could go up a little in size without detriment. I wasn't interested.
I'm having the Defenders rebalanced on Wednesday because there is a noise/vibration that I'm pretty sure is mechanical (baseline noise worsened after new tires, which means the new tires are quieter than the old ones).
I know all tires are a compromise, and was ok with trading some weather performance for quietness and smooth ride, since I spend a lot of time in the car, but not a huge amount in bad weather, where additional performance may be welcome.
That said, my area of Michigan can have snow on the ground for about 6 months of the year, but not usually huge amounts. The roads are usually cleared well, and I've been driving here for 38 years.
I thought that it may be best to have as much performance as possible: prepare for the worst (horrible weather, emergency maneuvers) and hope for the best.
I was nearly set on the CC2, but thought it wouldn't have any advantage for 90% of my driving, and it would likely be louder, harsher, and ding my MPG.
We drove from MI to the Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge area earlier this year. Four people, loaded trunk, about 1500mi round trip, and over 18hrs drive. Loud, droning, harsh tires would have sucked.
We ran into torrential downpours on the way back home and the nearly worn PureContacts handled great.

I considered the DWS06 plus, but the PureContact LS (70k rated) only lasted 40k miles...so the DWS (50k rated) might last 30k? Ouch.

I have more thinking to do.
I knew I would have to give something up.
If the CC2 is as quiet as the D2 (not likely), but rides the same (firm), then the gain in weather capabilities might be worth the loss of comfort.
But louder AND harsh? Yuck.

Bob

You could try the Michelin Energy Saver tire. I run them on my Camry. They track straight and have a relatively soft ride. Noise on some surfaces but generally ok. Don't last more than 25k in my city, short trip driving (25k). I get a pro rated price on a net set every 3 years and have fresh rubber. The extra mpg compensates, some for the shorter tire life. Some drivers get 50-60k out of this tire. See Tire rack reviews for more info re these tires on your vehicle. Hope this helps.

 

[edyvw]

Looking to get the Michelin CC2 for my wife’s 2018 AWD Honda Pilot…Trying to decide if I should give Costco another chance.

Always before DT. I sometimes get an itch to try certain tires that Costco does not carry, and ALWAYS have issues with something at DTČ balancing, TPMS, or they simply forget tp torque wheels properly. Super annoying.

 

[Looger]

Wow, yeah, I'm cautious about my car as well.
After the new tires were installed, the kid says my car was ready, and he set the pressure at 41psi.

Um...***? I Thought that I misheard him or he misspoke.

I always double check pressure and torque, and of course they were overinflated.
I have no dang clue as to why he chose 41psi.

A few years ago, a dealer overtorqued my wife's wheels. They obviously ran the nuts on with an airgun.
I was not happy, and let them know it.

Bob

 

[Looger]

So I have a little more time on these tires. Maybe 300 miles or so.

I was confused by their behavior because at times they felt smooth and other times, harsh.
I started paying more attention and realized that the rounded bumps are handled very well. But the square edge bumps are very harsh. In other words, the tire feels over damped.

It honestly feels like a pretty good tire, and maybe it will smooth out as it wears, but I'm leaning strongly toward getting the Pirelli tires.

Bob

 

[Stever39]

So I have a little more time on these tires. Maybe 300 miles or so.

I was confused by their behavior because at times they felt smooth and other times, harsh.
I started paying more attention and realized that the rounded bumps are handled very well. But the square edge bumps are very harsh. In other words, the tire feels over damped.

It honestly feels like a pretty good tire, and maybe it will smooth out as it wears, but I'm leaning strongly toward getting the Pirelli tires.

Bob

What did you end up deciding? I had the Costco version of the Defender LTX MS on my last truck and loved them. Just got the Costco version of the new LTX MS2 on my newer truck and finding the same issues you have and I have over 1k miles on the. It's smooth over small bumps and regular roads. Any bigger holes or bumps on the highway and it's like in running E rated LT tires. Pretty frustrating. I am debating using the 60 day satisfaction guarantee.

For reference the tires I took off had good tread but the dealer put them on and they were an older OEM model so I was worried about winter grip. Never felt these issues with those tires.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Looger]

I rarely get a chance to visit here so my response to this thread is just pure luck. I ended up getting the Michelin CC2.
They're honestly everything that they claim to be, except they are just a little noisy. It isn't severe, but it is definitely noticeable.

The ride is firm, bordering on harsh, but it isn't severe.

Handling is good overall. I think I liked the Continental pure contacts a little better as far as handling and ride, but the michelin's are fine.

Wet traction and hydroplane control is good.

And I must say they're absolutely amazing in snow and slippery conditions.
Worth every penny in this regard.

And I was surprised that I didn't lose any MPG!

I do wish they rode a little nicer, and we're a bit quieter. But they are **** good overall tires.

I wanted to put a set on my wife's CRV, but she said that she didn't want them as she enjoys the Defenders for their quietness, and they seem to be handling the slippery roads okay.
That said, she did agree that if she felt the car getting too loose, that we would go ahead and put cross climates on and use the defenders for fair weather.

Bob