Porsche and Mobil 1

[bobbydavro]

'FS' will be to create a different brand name to the existing, approved, brand name on the OEM approval lists.

The meaning can be whatever you want it to be - its largely unimportant - if it was then it would have been written on the product, in this scenario its purpose is to differentiate the product from Mobil 1 0W-40 product which has BMW approval and is on the BMW global approved list.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
'FS' will be to create a different brand name to the existing, approved, brand name on the OEM approval lists.

The meaning can be whatever you want it to be - its largely unimportant - if it was then it would have been written on the product, in this scenario its purpose is to differentiate the product from Mobil 1 0W-40 product which has BMW approval and is on the BMW global approved list.


Where are you seeing a current BMW approved oil list?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
in this scenario its purpose is to differentiate the product from Mobil 1 0W-40 product which has BMW approval and is on the BMW global approved list.


Where is this M1 0w-40 product that has BMW approval? AFAIK, all there is left is some old stock that may still be sitting on shelves at some retailers.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Would regular SN 5w30 M1 even meet the criteria of full SAPS specifications like 10+ min. TBN?

Another valid point. M1 5w-30 has SA level of 0.8%. What SA level do you need to be considered full SAPS? Greater than 1%?



1-1.6% if I recall correctly.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
in this scenario its purpose is to differentiate the product from Mobil 1 0W-40 product which has BMW approval and is on the BMW global approved list.


Where is this M1 0w-40 product that has BMW approval? AFAIK, all there is left is some old stock that may still be sitting on shelves at some retailers.


I think he is looking EU list. EU still has VISOM product line.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: chrisri

Would regular SN 5w30 M1 even meet the criteria of full SAPS specifications like 10+ min. TBN? I'm not sure but I think regular SN, GF5 are around 7-8 which makes them low or mid SAPS (at least on that single requirement) in ACEA realm.
They (ACEA) purposely changed min TBN from 8 to 10 in last sequences to better separate C3 and A3/B3 or B4 and not letting them to overlap like they did in mid 2000s.


Probably not and as QP said, good point

However it (M1 5w-30) isn't targeted at the Euro market and has no Euro OEM approvals so I would guess there isn't the risk of it being cross-shopped with the ESP 5w-30 that Mobil may fear exists with the M1 Euro 0w-40 and the ESP 0w-40

Just my take away from the whole labelling fiasco, LOL!

I would agree with you. Since 0w40 are predominantly Euro cars oils there is greater threat that some could misuse the product. Now, if only average consumer could actually read what is written on the specification...

 

[Quattro Pete]

So, I asked Mobil's customer support to tell me what "FS" stands for. Here is their response:

Quote:
I've been informed the FS is a reference to "Full Synthetic." It's a little redundant, since any motor oil labeled "Mobil 1" is going to be a full synthetic.


It really makes no sense to me.

 

[bobbydavro]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
in this scenario its purpose is to differentiate the product from Mobil 1 0W-40 product which has BMW approval and is on the BMW global approved list.


Where is this M1 0w-40 product that has BMW approval? AFAIK, all there is left is some old stock that may still be sitting on shelves at some retailers.


I think he is looking EU list. EU still has VISOM product line.


Its a global list, you cant have the same brand name with different OEM specs in different parts of the world.

The brand name change is to avoid this on the paperwork side only - the fact the change is so small to the consumer further supports that is it only to meet this stipulation of the OEM.

It appears the new formulation can't meet the new BMW test requirements and so has had to drop the spec.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Its a global list, you cant have the same brand name with different OEM specs in different parts of the world.

The brand name change is to avoid this on the paperwork side only - the fact the change is so small to the consumer further supports that is it only to meet this stipulation of the OEM.

It appears the new formulation can't meet the new BMW test requirements and so has had to drop the spec.


Can you post a link to this global list?

Also, where do you see something that makes it appear it can't meet Longlife-01? And do you have a link to what is "new" in the BMW requirements?

 

[deven]

Maybe they are going the German route and calling FS full synthetic because it may not have any group III oil? Something to ponder/chew on....

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
So, I asked Mobil's customer support to tell me what "FS" stands for. Here is their response:

Originally Posted By: Mobil Products
I've been informed the FS is a reference to "Full Synthetic." It's a little redundant, since any motor oil labeled "Mobil 1" is going to be a full synthetic.


It really makes no sense to me.


Another response from Mobil:
Originally Posted By: Mobil Products
I've had a chance to hear back from a Brand Advisor, indicating that the FS designation does not refer to Full Synthetic, and that, "It is an internal designation to differentiate products in other markets with different claim profile." My previous source appears to have been anecdotal.


So again, no answer as to what "FS" actually stands for. I still like my previous guesses... "Formerly Synthetic" and "Fairly Synthetic"

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
in this scenario its purpose is to differentiate the product from Mobil 1 0W-40 product which has BMW approval and is on the BMW global approved list.


Where is this M1 0w-40 product that has BMW approval? AFAIK, all there is left is some old stock that may still be sitting on shelves at some retailers.


I think he is looking EU list. EU still has VISOM product line.


Its a global list, you cant have the same brand name with different OEM specs in different parts of the world.

The brand name change is to avoid this on the paperwork side only - the fact the change is so small to the consumer further supports that is it only to meet this stipulation of the OEM.

It appears the new formulation can't meet the new BMW test requirements and so has had to drop the spec.


I am not sure that the list is updated then.
Mobil1.de still lists old VISOM product, not new FS product.
I am not sure that Mobil1 is going to offer their premier product in the EU without LL-01 spec.
On another not, it is not only LL-01. Their 0W30 X1 is not meeting LL-04, BUT, this is interesting, meets LL-04 in Canada and EU.
New Pennzoil 0W30 low -SAPS also does not carry LL-04.
I am not sure what is going on, but it could be something specific to the U.S. market.

 

[bobbydavro]

It's possible they have different formulations for EU

BMW approved list isn't for public. A few old version are Floting around though.

Main approval test has changed which is a lot more challenging

 

[bobbydavro]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
So, I asked Mobil's customer support to tell me what "FS" stands for. Here is their response:

Originally Posted By: Mobil Products
I've been informed the FS is a reference to "Full Synthetic." It's a little redundant, since any motor oil labeled "Mobil 1" is going to be a full synthetic.


It really makes no sense to me.


Another response from Mobil:
Originally Posted By: Mobil Products
I've had a chance to hear back from a Brand Advisor, indicating that the FS designation does not refer to Full Synthetic, and that, "It is an internal designation to differentiate products in other markets with different claim profile." My previous source appears to have been anecdotal.


So again, no answer as to what "FS" actually stands for. I still like my previous guesses... "Formerly Synthetic" and "Fairly Synthetic"

It means nothing other than to do its job as per the comments in its thread; be different to the existing product name

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
It's possible they have different formulations for EU

BMW approved list isn't for public. A few old version are Floting around though.

Main approval test has changed which is a lot more challenging


Well lists are pretty useless anyway, for the most part they are outdated before they are even published. And if they aren't even public...

But you are saying you know for a fact that the BMW spec got more challenging and the specific reason M1 0W-40 lost LL-01 was due to not being able to meet the new test?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
It's possible they have different formulations for EU

BMW approved list isn't for public. A few old version are Floting around though.

Main approval test has changed which is a lot more challenging

EU? yeah maybe (although US web site has exactly same number as German web site for X1).
But let's hypothetically say that there is a difference between X1 in the NA and EU. Why LL-04 in Canada and not in the US? I hardly believe that Mobil1 has different formulation only for Canadian market. That X1 is even packed in same style bottle as we get in the U.S. not EU style bottle, the one that 5W30 ESP is packed in.

 

[drtyler]

Somthing I noticed while checking out the MB 229.5 list is Mobil 1 FS 0W40, 0W30, and 5W30.

Did not check to see global availability of these, but it does look like FS will be the new family of Euro spec / High Saps oils.

 

[bobbydavro]

As suspected then, they are transitioning the product name everywhere.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
So again, no answer as to what "FS" actually stands for. I still like my previous guesses... "Formerly Synthetic" and "Fairly Synthetic"

Email them back and ask if my speculation was correct.