Old, dirty fuel tanker at my local Exxon.
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Originally Posted By: j_mac
...........My question is, how do I know the gas they are selling at this Exxon station has the proper Exxon Top Tier additives in it? ......
That knowledge will cost you money. Take a sample, and have it analyzed.
If you buy organic produce, how do you know it really is free of pesticides?
...........My question is, how do I know the gas they are selling at this Exxon station has the proper Exxon Top Tier additives in it? ......
That knowledge will cost you money. Take a sample, and have it analyzed.
If you buy organic produce, how do you know it really is free of pesticides?
Question: If one is buying gasoline at Shell, you would have to buy premium grade to get the V-Power = TT fuel, correct?
TT fuel at Shell does not apply across all their grades of gasoline. At least this is what I have concluded from the thread links provided.
TT fuel at Shell does not apply across all their grades of gasoline. At least this is what I have concluded from the thread links provided.
Yep, these fuel providers signed an promise to use added detergents to be branded with Top Tier..I bet occasionally this is not honored, but most of the time the promise is honored.
As long as it is a major brand and the station appears to be clean and in good repair overall I'd trust that promise.
You can always call that oil company and voice your concerns if you believe that the product is not what is being claimed. I would actually do this too, most major oil companies DO keep a very close eye on their franchises with respect to quality control.
As long as it is a major brand and the station appears to be clean and in good repair overall I'd trust that promise.
You can always call that oil company and voice your concerns if you believe that the product is not what is being claimed. I would actually do this too, most major oil companies DO keep a very close eye on their franchises with respect to quality control.
Most Major Brands have a bad gasoline guarantee.
Look it up for your favorite gas station.
Problem Solved...
Look it up for your favorite gas station.
Problem Solved...
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Most Major Brands have a bad gasoline guarantee.
Look it up for your favorite gas station.
Problem Solved...
Problem solved? How would you know if you got "bad gasoline" before your engine was running poorly due to buildup?
Most Major Brands have a bad gasoline guarantee.
Look it up for your favorite gas station.
Problem Solved...
Problem solved? How would you know if you got "bad gasoline" before your engine was running poorly due to buildup?
Originally Posted By: glum
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Most Major Brands have a bad gasoline guarantee.
Look it up for your favorite gas station.
Problem Solved...
Problem solved? How would you know if you got "bad gasoline" before your engine was running poorly due to buildup?
The same way you would know your Top Tier isn't so top...
You wouldn't.
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Most Major Brands have a bad gasoline guarantee.
Look it up for your favorite gas station.
Problem Solved...
Problem solved? How would you know if you got "bad gasoline" before your engine was running poorly due to buildup?
The same way you would know your Top Tier isn't so top...
You wouldn't.
Originally Posted By: paulo57509
Question: If one is buying gasoline at Shell, you would have to buy premium grade to get the V-Power = TT fuel, correct?
TT fuel at Shell does not apply across all their grades of gasoline. At least this is what I have concluded from the thread links provided.
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
Shell's V-Power has 5X the federal minimum.
Question: If one is buying gasoline at Shell, you would have to buy premium grade to get the V-Power = TT fuel, correct?
TT fuel at Shell does not apply across all their grades of gasoline. At least this is what I have concluded from the thread links provided.
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
Shell's V-Power has 5X the federal minimum.
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Originally Posted By: rg200amp
What a waste of time that was.
Maybe, maybe not. I personally appreciate your viewpoint and pottymouth's viewpoint on this issue.
Unless someone does independent tests on the Top Tier gasolines, we're not going to have proper data. That goes without saying. Yes, Audi, BMW, etc., recommend Top Tier gas. We also know they have relationships with ExxonMobil, BP, and so forth.
All that does is cloudy up the issue, though. We also can't expect ExxonMobil (or anyone else) to give us every detail on their detergent chemistries and levels. I don't like that fact, but I'm not naive enough to expect otherwise.
Here, Top Tier gas is the same price as all other gas. Even before Top Tier, I never had a problem with gasoline from any of the major stations, all of whom are Top Tier now. The only ones from which I ever got bad fuel were some of the "independent" or discount brands (rare here), particularly in ancient fuel stations.
Is Top Tier a marketing gimmick? Perhaps. Do Imperial Oil, SOPUS, PetroCanada, and so forth sell quality gasoline? I would say so.
What a waste of time that was.
Maybe, maybe not. I personally appreciate your viewpoint and pottymouth's viewpoint on this issue.
Unless someone does independent tests on the Top Tier gasolines, we're not going to have proper data. That goes without saying. Yes, Audi, BMW, etc., recommend Top Tier gas. We also know they have relationships with ExxonMobil, BP, and so forth.
All that does is cloudy up the issue, though. We also can't expect ExxonMobil (or anyone else) to give us every detail on their detergent chemistries and levels. I don't like that fact, but I'm not naive enough to expect otherwise.
Here, Top Tier gas is the same price as all other gas. Even before Top Tier, I never had a problem with gasoline from any of the major stations, all of whom are Top Tier now. The only ones from which I ever got bad fuel were some of the "independent" or discount brands (rare here), particularly in ancient fuel stations.
Is Top Tier a marketing gimmick? Perhaps. Do Imperial Oil, SOPUS, PetroCanada, and so forth sell quality gasoline? I would say so.
Interesting read....especially about the outdated EPA testing requirements.
http://m.naplesnews.com/news/2011/may/22/pressure-pump-gas-detergent-Shell-BP-Exxon-testing/
....To gauge the differences in detergent levels, Scripps commissioned a test of gasoline from five national brands: BP, CITGO, Exxon, Pilot (sold at travel centers in 43 states) and Shell.
....The EPA rule is outdated and should to be revisited, agreed Marie Valentine, an engineer for Toyota — the world’s largest automaker — at its technical center in Ann Arbor, Mich. She said in an email that auto industry fuels experts raised this concern at a March meeting with EPA representatives.
http://m.naplesnews.com/news/2011/may/22/pressure-pump-gas-detergent-Shell-BP-Exxon-testing/
....To gauge the differences in detergent levels, Scripps commissioned a test of gasoline from five national brands: BP, CITGO, Exxon, Pilot (sold at travel centers in 43 states) and Shell.
....The EPA rule is outdated and should to be revisited, agreed Marie Valentine, an engineer for Toyota — the world’s largest automaker — at its technical center in Ann Arbor, Mich. She said in an email that auto industry fuels experts raised this concern at a March meeting with EPA representatives.
Google World Wide Fuel Charter and read the results.
Look at the SAE papers. There's papers from the carmakers, etc.
Lots of data. this isn't a consiracy theory.
You will not feel any difference driving initially between base additive gasoline (any brand) and top tier until many miles have accumulated.
Once there is lots of buildup, it is hard to remove easily.
If you don't keep a car past 100k, I wouldn't worry about it. If you do you need a plan.
You can either:
1. Use top tier or similar (BP, Sunoco USA, Costco, etc.)
2. Use base gasoline and add an additive like Techron or Redline SL-1 or similar regularly - say once to twice a year
3. Get a cleaning at a shop through the injector rail every few years
4. Take your chances with Seafoam or the like
All work.
Why don't the car makers lobby the EPA? they have for years. The larger convenient store chains have also lobbied to protect the 1-2 cents/gal they would be losing on a lot of volume.
Look at the SAE papers. There's papers from the carmakers, etc.
Lots of data. this isn't a consiracy theory.
You will not feel any difference driving initially between base additive gasoline (any brand) and top tier until many miles have accumulated.
Once there is lots of buildup, it is hard to remove easily.
If you don't keep a car past 100k, I wouldn't worry about it. If you do you need a plan.
You can either:
1. Use top tier or similar (BP, Sunoco USA, Costco, etc.)
2. Use base gasoline and add an additive like Techron or Redline SL-1 or similar regularly - say once to twice a year
3. Get a cleaning at a shop through the injector rail every few years
4. Take your chances with Seafoam or the like
All work.
Why don't the car makers lobby the EPA? they have for years. The larger convenient store chains have also lobbied to protect the 1-2 cents/gal they would be losing on a lot of volume.
Originally Posted By: whip
the whole "top tier gas" thing is just marketing. In my area, most of the gas stations are supplied by the same trucking company, and probably the same gas.
It's funny, cause outside of BITOG, I've never heard anyone discuss or mention the words "top tier" within a conversation when talking about their gas station/brand of choice
Pure Internet Marketing, at it's best
The day-to-day commuters outside BITOG do not know the difference between their "Sip and Go" gas, and their Chevron gasoline
Other than maybe the price.
the whole "top tier gas" thing is just marketing. In my area, most of the gas stations are supplied by the same trucking company, and probably the same gas.
It's funny, cause outside of BITOG, I've never heard anyone discuss or mention the words "top tier" within a conversation when talking about their gas station/brand of choice
Pure Internet Marketing, at it's best
The day-to-day commuters outside BITOG do not know the difference between their "Sip and Go" gas, and their Chevron gasoline
Originally Posted By: ahoier
The day-to-day commuters outside BITOG do not know the difference between their "Sip and Go" gas, and their Chevron gasoline
Other than maybe the price.
I think you have something here. For all the sniping we do at one oil company or another, we're probably their biggest fans of all.
Kids wait for the latest game or latest console or whatever other latest gadget. We're the only people in the world waiting for the next oil specification or shopping around for Top Tier gas.
The day-to-day commuters outside BITOG do not know the difference between their "Sip and Go" gas, and their Chevron gasoline
I think you have something here. For all the sniping we do at one oil company or another, we're probably their biggest fans of all.
Kids wait for the latest game or latest console or whatever other latest gadget. We're the only people in the world waiting for the next oil specification or shopping around for Top Tier gas.
I'm the OP.
To add to this story, I drove into this local Exxon this thread is about yesterday. All the pumps had red bags covering the pump handles. THEY HAD NO GAS! Or perhaps some government agency shut them down! Maybe I'm not crazy. Maybe THIS: http://216.194.92.174/pics/80/ot878060t.jpg had something to do with it!
footnote; thanks to glum here at BITOG for the link.
To add to this story, I drove into this local Exxon this thread is about yesterday. All the pumps had red bags covering the pump handles. THEY HAD NO GAS! Or perhaps some government agency shut them down! Maybe I'm not crazy. Maybe THIS: http://216.194.92.174/pics/80/ot878060t.jpg had something to do with it!
footnote; thanks to glum here at BITOG for the link.
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Originally Posted By: j_mac
I'm the OP.
To add to this story, I drove into this local Exxon this thread is about yesterday. All the pumps had red bags covering the pump handles. THEY HAD NO GAS! Or perhaps some government agency shut them down!
They do run out of gas occasionally, at least they do up here. It's not common, but it does happen, even at high volume, new, clean gas stations.
I'm the OP.
To add to this story, I drove into this local Exxon this thread is about yesterday. All the pumps had red bags covering the pump handles. THEY HAD NO GAS! Or perhaps some government agency shut them down!
They do run out of gas occasionally, at least they do up here. It's not common, but it does happen, even at high volume, new, clean gas stations.
Really though, my new Hyundai manual gets all excited about using Top Tier. There must be some substance to it since so many of the manufacturers are getting upset about it.
I remember back in the 1990's that BMW recommended using Chevron's Techron additive occasionally because they felt it worked wonders. It was recommended in the owner's manuals way back then. So, These good detergents used at a high enough concentration must really help keep your valves, injector tips, piston tops and combustion chamber cleaner. As an added note, Techron is billed as an unsurpassed lubricant for fuel tank level sending units.
Given the choice, I will always choose a Top Tier station especially if the price is similar and the distance to the stations are similar. In fact, I've been driving way out of my way in order to fill up my new car at the closest Top Tier station to me.
I remember back in the 1990's that BMW recommended using Chevron's Techron additive occasionally because they felt it worked wonders. It was recommended in the owner's manuals way back then. So, These good detergents used at a high enough concentration must really help keep your valves, injector tips, piston tops and combustion chamber cleaner. As an added note, Techron is billed as an unsurpassed lubricant for fuel tank level sending units.
Given the choice, I will always choose a Top Tier station especially if the price is similar and the distance to the stations are similar. In fact, I've been driving way out of my way in order to fill up my new car at the closest Top Tier station to me.
JHZR2
Staff member
Interesting. Very few top tier stations around by us. Many have converted to lukoil, citgo, spirit, US Gas (is that the same as the US oil shown on the TT page>?), valero, etc.
The other thing I find interesting is that Top Tier forces high ethanol. 8-10% is required.
IMO high turnover is more important than higher adds. At least to a point. And, despite the assumption that today's engines have more of a need for special adds, Id think that generally they run cleaner and hotter than older ones, meaning less chance for problems.
The other thing I find interesting is that Top Tier forces high ethanol. 8-10% is required.
IMO high turnover is more important than higher adds. At least to a point. And, despite the assumption that today's engines have more of a need for special adds, Id think that generally they run cleaner and hotter than older ones, meaning less chance for problems.
It doesn't force up to 10% ethanol. The performance must be the same in fuels that contain up to 10% ethanol.
Ed
Ed
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