No 0w20 in Australia and this is why

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Here's what I can't wrap my head around, and no one here has presented enough of an argument to convince me that CAFE isn't driving the thinner oils in the USA. Why is it in many US vehicles a 20 grade oil is the only choice, under any and all conditions? Why? Is engine longevity the main concern of the automaker specifying a 20 grade oil? Is it truly the best choice? Or is getting points with CAFE first and foremost, and longevity takes the back seat?
 
I don't think I would be able to present a valid argument that CAFE isn't a major drive behind thinner oils in the USA. I say that it's not the only factor, but it certainly is a major one, and likely the most significant one.

Back in the day, the manufacturers listed a recommended oil for fuel economy; that was probably a regulatory requirement. I suppose the "requires" wording is the current regulatory requirement.

If CAFE doesn't actually require that the viscosity used during testing be listed as the required oil in the manual, then the alternative reasons aren't a lot better, really. One alternative is that automakers think we're idiots and will use 20w-50 in a North Dakota winter the second we get the chance. Or, they're so petrified of lawsuits and warranty claims based on such a misuse of a grade that they prohibit such oils altogether. Or, with longer OCIs, the automaker doesn't want us to feel obligated to do early OCIs just because of the weather, or doesn't trust us to do so. Or they don't trust lube techs to pay attention (they probably don't trust lube techs as it is an know they'll put 10w-30 in everything if they can get away with it) to putting the specified grade in for the ambient weather.

And to be blunt - and I'm not assuming that lighter oils sacrifice longevity; I'm not convinced of that at all - of course the automakers would look to satisfy CAFE first, assuming that a 20 wouldn't blow every engine up before warranty expired. While no automaker wants to be known as a producer of 100,000 mile and under vehicles, they have to balance that with penalties for not meeting fuel economy targets.

There are other ways to meet fuel economy targets, but the automakers have to pick what's most palatable. They're not just going to yank the F-150 from production or double its price as a disincentive to a lower fuel economy vehicle. They're not going to be producing a plethora of 80 hp stripped down vehicles, either. At current fuel prices (yes, they're higher, but still fairly reasonable), the market won't stand for such measures. Perhaps the automakers should tune every vehicle that gets under 40 mpg, for instance, to require premium fuel or E85. I don't know. I can't see the market tolerating that, either.

Remember that a brand new Audi, for instance, doesn't have a huge variation in viscosity choice either. While thicker (i.e. HTHS of 3.5 or greater under several OEM specs) oils are mandated, you don't have the option of running Rotella 15w-40 or PYB 20w-50 in there, either, at least from the standpoint of the manufacturer's recommendations.

I wish we had more choice. I know darn well that a vehicle specifying 0w-20 or 5w-20 isn't going to explode on 5w-30. But, Arizona isn't exactly littered with abandoned vehicles that failed on 0w-20, either. I don't know what the answer is, nor can I suggest a perfect solution.
 
i'm a delivery driver subcontractor with a fleet of one vehicle; i have a heightened sense of awareness about getting this just right; one man's hobby is another man's crucial business decision; considering all factors including the op...where can i order some of that there 45W70 australian motor oil? no, i'll stick with what i've got; very soon it will be time to select a "high mileage" oil; my prime candidates are rl 0W20 and/or rli 0W20; btw, i have no problem with cafe standards leading to innovation.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Here's what I can't wrap my head around, and no one here has presented enough of an argument to convince me that CAFE isn't driving the thinner oils in the USA. Why is it in many US vehicles a 20 grade oil is the only choice, under any and all conditions? Why? Is engine longevity the main concern of the automaker specifying a 20 grade oil? Is it truly the best choice? Or is getting points with CAFE first and foremost, and longevity takes the back seat?


This is a bit off topic but when I was doing some searches about Slime (tire repair goo), I came across a story from the Slime makers how they tested it to be safe with TPMS, so they could sign up a huge contract with GM who was replacing spare tire with slime and compressor kit (just like Germans), so they can save a tiny amount of MPG for CAFE reasons. That's how it was explained to Slime people. Cafe is a huge deal and they will do anything to mitigate it.

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One of the primary factors in the product’s acceptance by GM were new CAFE standards, which will result in reduced vehicle weights in that model year. GM is removing the spare tire and replacing it (and adding space to accommodate it) with a Slime Safety Spair kit in each vehicle.


http://www.tirereview.com/Article/59479/...patibility.aspx
 
Sure the "eliminating" the spare tire thing has nothing to do with the fact most people's spare is completely flat and useless by the time they go to use it anyhow? :p
 
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Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Sure the "eliminating" the spare tire thing has nothing to do with the fact most people's spare is completely flat and useless by the time they go to use it anyhow? :p


Some car makers jumped at that cheat more aggressively than others. My Toyota cars have all spare tires and I like that. They are not flat either and they were used a few times.
 
Good timing on the thread drift. I was going to say the OEM's can up the FE ratings by installing/mandating LRR tires. That would net more MPG than oil grade alone.
 
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If I lived in OZ and had the OP's Honda CRV I'd certainly look into running a 0W-20 grade knowing that's what's specified elsewhere

You would. Manufacturers spec mean nothing to you. ITS NOT SPEC IN HIS COUNTRY. Why is that so hard for you to understand.

If someone else has the same idea and comes to the US and applies the same logic in reverse you go freaking bonkers.
Your right and everyone else including the manufacturer is wrong if it doesn't match Caterhams belief.

You are truly a hypocrite.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Good timing on the thread drift. I was going to say the OEM's can up the FE ratings by installing/mandating LRR tires. That would net more MPG than oil grade alone.


The OEM tires are LRR with few exceptions. The only thing different is there is no requirement to stay with LRR tires later. Somehow CAFE didn't pick up on this.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
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If I lived in OZ and had the OP's Honda CRV I'd certainly look into running a 0W-20 grade knowing that's what's specified elsewhere

You would. Manufacturers spec mean nothing to you. ITS NOT SPEC IN HIS COUNTRY. Why is that so hard for you to understand.

If someone else has the same idea and comes to the US and applies the same logic in reverse you go freaking bonkers.
Your right and everyone else including the manufacturer is wrong if it doesn't match Caterhams belief.

You are truly a hypocrite.


I see you haven't given up on your irrational person attacks.

How does the country in which I use a vehicle make any difference at all? Higher driving speeds? That's not the case in OZ vs Canada. Higher ambient temp's? That's a possibility although we do get 40C days here and 50C days out in the prairies Garak tells me.

If a vehicle is engineered for a 0W-20 oil and a 0W-20 grade is specified in NA and Japan, how am I being in some way hipocritical if I want to look into running the same grade in OZ?

I think you're clearly delusional and have lost all sense of rational perspective in always wanting to run the heaviest oil specified and often even heavier.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

How does the country in which I use a vehicle make any difference at all? Higher driving speeds? That's not the case in OZ vs Canada. Higher ambient temp's? That's a possibility although we do get 40C days here and 50C days out in the prairies Garak tells me.

If a vehicle is engineered for a 0W-20 oil and a 0W-20 grade is specified in NA and Japan, how am I being in some way hipocritical if I want to look into running the same grade in OZ?

Canberra doesn't look too much different than Dallas in Climate. Melbourne not too different than Houston. The months those temperatures and humidity readings occur in are different of course but overall it's somewhat similar. I can't find anything that suggests Alice Springs would be hotter than Austin

I was to understand that Australian cars had specific engineering requirements to operate inland. But that has mostly to do with structural integrity. Not really lubrication.
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Why they spec different oils than North America and Japan remains a mystery to me.
 
If you listen to some on here, it's because the Ox drawn carts that deliver us oil haven't got the 0W-20 to us yet.
 
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how am I being in some way hipocritical if I want to look into running the same grade in OZ?


Because its not spec in OZ. What part of that do you not understand. The engine is not engineered for 20w only or they couldn't and wouldn't spec it for other grades for most of the other countries in the world.
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I think you're clearly delusional and have lost all sense of rational perspective

crackmeup2.gif
Pot calling the kettle black.
 
Regardless of what weight is spec in other countries it makes no sense to go heavier because they do. 20w oil protects just fine and besides warranty reasons should be used. This thread is informational but it changes nothing or does it add any information to what had been beaten to death here already.
 
I've come to the conclusion that viscosity doesn't matter.

How can it if a GM engine "designed" for 10w30 is fitted to an Australian car and run on 20w50 for 200k miles with no trouble?

If an oil pump is a positive displacement pump, and the oil is not so viscous that the pressure releif valve will open, it will still get the same volume of oil through the engine regardless of viscosity.
 
Lot of honda fits on fitfreak reporting excessive engine clattering noise before the end of anticipated engine life - so much so owners are reluctantly wishing to trade early. Some have been diagnosed with wrist pin wear, others with "indeterminate engine noise". Not saying this is oil related these engine use a diesel style hemi piston cup with greatly raised squish zone at the perimeter. May be Mechanical "carbon deposit" interference.
 
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
What can make a difference is vehicle maintenance and level of abuse by the drivers.

Agreed.
Also, you admitted in another thread that you rarely keep your oil for the full length of full ODI as you are impatient and always want to try another oil. So, for you any oil will work. Applications are different and your protocol is fine for practically any viscosity.
 
Originally Posted By: supercity
I've come to the conclusion that viscosity doesn't matter.

How can it if a GM engine "designed" for 10w30 is fitted to an Australian car and run on 20w50 for 200k miles with no trouble?

If an oil pump is a positive displacement pump, and the oil is not so viscous that the pressure releif valve will open, it will still get the same volume of oil through the engine regardless of viscosity.

That is the heart of the question.
Firstly, the oil's viscosity does limit the volume of oil flowing through an engine. Yes the pressure from the oil pump is constant (increasing with rpms), but for a given rpm the oil flow through an engine will increase as the oil's viscosity drops.
You will notice this effect every time you start a cold engine. Initially the reading on your oil pressure gauge (if your vehicle is equipped with one) will be very high but will drop as the oil warms up (and thins out). The reason for his is that the OP gauge actually measures back pressure or the resistance of oil flow through the engine.

Driving conservatively as most vehicles are, most engines will tolerate some pretty heavy oil indeed in a mild climate.
Even with such heavy oil, with the engine up to temperature the
oil pump likely will not still be in by-pass mode at moderate rev's. Ironically it is only when you start racing an engine that problems can occur because the oil pump will be in by-pass and that reduces oil flow through the engine. This will result in hotter running bearings which is not a good thing.
 
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