The 2.5 in the Cayman S makes 350bhp for 2022. Whats the 2.4L in the 2022 wrx make, 270? Lol. The base Cayman 718 gets a 300hp 2.0.Porsche uses a 2.5L H4 in the 718 Caymen and Caymen S.
You can't even begin to compare the two.
The 2.5 in the Cayman S makes 350bhp for 2022. Whats the 2.4L in the 2022 wrx make, 270? Lol. The base Cayman 718 gets a 300hp 2.0.Porsche uses a 2.5L H4 in the 718 Caymen and Caymen S.
I had a 2002 WRX which I think was the first year they were available in the USA. Car and driver got a 0-60 time of 5.4 with that car and I believe some other car magazines were getting 5.7 - 5.9.
So it seems not much if any improvement from what it was 20 years ago which is surprising.
And yet...the corvette went from 350 to near 500hp, the Z went from 300 to 400. The mustang went from 260 to 460. All while maintaining or even improving mpg in many cases. But here we have the WRX...in the last 20 years it's gained 45hp or so, and 400 pounds. Its mpg remains near the same depending on transmission options. I find this lack of progress abysmal.It was far faster than needed then, and that’s no different now. Grow the dimensions, make emissions stricter, handling better, overall crash safety superior, and it’s a consistent vehicle. Needing to improve upon those numbers is ridiculous,
The MPGs are the weak point, not the rest.
Then please don't look at the other cars that the WRX competes against.And yet...the corvette went from 350 to near 500hp, the Z went from 300 to 400. The mustang went from 260 to 460. All while maintaining or even improving mpg in many cases. But here we have the WRX...in the last 20 years it's gained 45hp or so, and 400 pounds. Its mpg remains near the same depending on transmission options. I find this lack of progress abysmal.
I mean, it gained 100bhp, I'd call that just fine.Then please don't look at the other cars that the WRX competes against.
VW GTI: 200hp to 228hp
Civic SI: 197hp to 205hp
The WRX doesn't do too bad amongst it's peers.
Hell, a 4th gen F-body does 19mpg city, 31 highway. The current one does 22 city, 31 highway. How's that for progress?
You don't really have to convince me. I'm not saying it is a great engine. In my previous post I was trashing on it for it's factory tuning blunders. I was simply comparing to it's rivals, and I still don't think it's that far off. Everything you pointed out with the GTI is unfortunately true as well. I think a big part of the problem here is that these companies are pumping R&D dollars into SUV platforms and drivetrains, because that is where their profit lies. Sport sedans/hatches are not kept around for their sales numbers alone.I mean, it gained 100bhp, I'd call that just fine.
America totally got shafted with the Golfs we get here. If we can look at what the rest of the world gets, it's a different picture. The Scirocco is where I really think the Golf platform shines. Factory yes, it's not impressive, but it's very very easy to make it a total animal. The WRX dies like a dog without a longblock rebuild. That said, this is about factory cars, and presumably what we have here in North America, for the sake of this discussion.
No, I am not impressed with t he VW GTi stateside. Not at all. I'd bag on it, too, if there were a thread about it. The R is nice, sortof. It's a de-tuned S3, basically.
The Civic SI has always been a tarted up civic. Performance hasn't moved a bit, but the mpg has gone way up in the latest model, by something like 5mpg or so across the board improvement for this latest model. If the WRX managed that, I'd totally respect their horsepower stagnation, because the power would them be commiserate with the mpg. That's the mismatch here. A 270hp car getting only 20/27mpg and weighing 3400# or so. The power curve isn't even good. It's just...a terrible engine with terrible power delivery, low mpg, and no real tuning potential without a rebuild. It's trash.
If you could boost it to the moon...cool! If it got great mpg...cool! If it got solid OEM power...cool! but it's weak, slow, has janky throttle response/power delivery without a tune, and it gets worse gas mileage than my 2.5L turbo CUV with similar power. In short, it's probably one of the most horrible motors I can think of currently residing between the fenders of a halo car. Nope. It IS the worst.
What IS this!? Who tuned this car?View attachment 71486
Seriously, if you can think of something positive about the engine Subaru is using, please share it. "It's weak because other manufacturers use weak engines [but also get way better mpg...]" is a very weak cop out.
GTI mpg: 29 city, 35 highway, horsepower
Also keep in mind the GTI is super underrated from VW. The WRX...is not.:
Stock 2015 Golf GTI Dyno Test Shows 263 HP, Proves VW Underrates Their Cars
We've heard of carmakers overrating their cars. For example, the Subaru BRZ actually makes about 180 hp at the crank, not 200 hp as claimed. However, the Golf GTI apparently makes more power than claimed, not less.www.autoevolution.com
edyvw! Finally! I've been checking this thread waiting for you to comment. While I disagree with some of your points, I agree with others(interior build quality, more luxury feel).GTI is not only about hp. It is mature vehicle. It is not vehicle for teenagers or “lower lifestyle.” It is vehicle to take to work, drop kids to daycare and maybe go have fun at curvy roads or few times a year on track. It is made as probably being single vehicle in family in Europe. So it has to do a lot of things right. It is about overall package, it is about the fact that materials in Golf and built quality in 1987 Golf II GTI (pre facelift, after was better, not fair to compare) is better than current WRX and probably 2022 WRX. When I see WRX interior it is like “bring back 80’s.” Gaps in interior panels, that plastic that is on par Metra kits for aftermarket audio systems, is far cry from Golf. Only way to sell that product is hp, handling and racing pedigree. But that all is gone. Subaru was household name in racing world in 90’s. What now? They are not in WRC since 2008 I think. Their vehicles are basically Toyota’s with AWD and bit of clearance.
Why are there two smaller screens instead one larger unit? So much blank wasted space that could be storage or screen. It’s not A deal breaker for the base model but it really makes you want the better trim. At $30k I expect a better center stack not something of an afterthought for those too poor to buy the big screen.Ill say it again - what’s the problem with it? I don’t see anything wrong with it. It’s an improvement over the 2016 I had.
I legit don’t mind it. In fact, it’s almost Teutonic. I’d compare it with Porsche or BMW from a few years ago. Simple. Attractive. Functional.
Everything is a compromise with cars.
Subaru is known for their boxer engine, AWD system, build quality, being tough, resale value. They’re utilitarian. Always have been. But they’re still improving the cabins.
VW/Audi is known for their interiors.
You want nicer interior but less outright performance, buy a VW or Audi. You don’t get the horsepower or the track/mountain road performance of the WRX. But you can get plaid seats
View attachment 71443
Do you plan on buying one?Why are there two smaller screens instead one larger unit? So much blank wasted space that could be storage or screen. It’s not A deal breaker for the base model but it really makes you want the better trim. At $30k I expect a better center stack not something of an afterthought for those too poor to buy the big screen.
Have you ever heard about that joke among the track crowd about how added bonus to the challenge is avoiding Subaru's head gaskets laying around?Ill say it again - what’s the problem with it? I don’t see anything wrong with it. It’s an improvement over the 2016 I had.
I legit don’t mind it. In fact, it’s almost Teutonic. I’d compare it with Porsche or BMW from a few years ago. Simple. Attractive. Functional.
Everything is a compromise with cars.
Subaru is known for their boxer engine, AWD system, build quality, being tough, resale value. They’re utilitarian. Always have been. But they’re still improving the cabins.
VW/Audi is known for their interiors.
You want nicer interior but less outright performance, buy a VW or Audi. You don’t get the horsepower or the track/mountain road performance of the WRX. But you can get plaid seats
View attachment 71443
Yeah Subaru and being tough just don't sound right. The toughest piece they've ever built is probably STI trans, that thing can handle 800+hpHave you ever heard about that joke among the track crowd about how added bonus to the challenge is avoiding Subaru's head gaskets laying around?
Yeah, wait until unsuspecting buyer asks to bump power to 800hp paired with CVT.Yeah Subaru and being tough just don't sound right. The toughest piece they've ever built is probably STI trans, that thing can handle 800+hp
Also, if you are a car guy, you must've heard Subaru's head gasket, VW's check engine light and Mustangs running into a crowd
Have you ever heard about that joke among the track crowd about how added bonus to the challenge is avoiding Subaru's head gaskets laying around?
I mean… they had all the space available for a few more buttons but all they give you for physical buttons is defrost and temp…. At least give the people a physical position and AC button as well, and maybe buttons that don’t look straight off a kids toy? The knobs in the older ones at least made it look like they put some effort into it in my opinion.What’s your big issue with it?
I mean, my personal preference is for simple knobs for fan speed and temp, and no “automatic temperature control”, but no vehicle is perfect, right?
I find it to be an attractive setup, and in no way a downgrade from the 15-21 model.
My Wife's BASE Outback has the two screen stack, the Premium model has a single screen. She detests the lack of knobs for HVAC.I mean… they had all the space available for a few more buttons but all they give you for physical buttons is defrost and temp…. At least give the people a physical position and AC button as well, and maybe buttons that don’t look straight off a kids toy? The knobs in the older ones at least made it look like they put some effort into it in my opinion.
I do agree with Ws6 on the power though. It’s…. Adequate and quicker than most of the bland econoboxes on the road today, but c’mon they can surely do something… at least work on the turbo lag.
It doesn’t sound like you’re very familiar with the 15-21 WRX. And you also haven’t read Subaru’s own press release about the new WRX. The current 2.0 WRX doesn’t have a turbo lag problem, because it has a twin-scroll turbo (as will the 2022 WRX). Boost is nearly instantaneous, especially when you’re at highway speed already.I mean… they had all the space available for a few more buttons but all they give you for physical buttons is defrost and temp…. At least give the people a physical position and AC button as well, and maybe buttons that don’t look straight off a kids toy? The knobs in the older ones at least made it look like they put some effort into it in my opinion.
I do agree with Ws6 on the power though. It’s…. Adequate and quicker than most of the bland econoboxes on the road today, but c’mon they can surely do something… at least work on the turbo lag.
Not always, once you match suspension closer, it is VERY hard to match the Honda Civic R sophisticated suspension design with common stamped steel cheapo hot hatch's designs.The Hyundai Veloster N would gain some with a high end Genisis suspension setup that is more like the Honda R's. So suspension disadvantage is still on the Veloster N. Match tires, and other things, it is not always the case.At the end of the day, all of them get smoked by a front wheel drive car at the track.
And *surprise* *surprise*, it's more reliable than any VW or Subaru.