Military Draft

[Astro14]

My thoughts are unfortunately I’m in the age group that’s required to be on the list. I’m glad those recruiters stopped calling me. I will absolutely refuse the exam they make you go thru for the military I’ll tell them if they want me that bad I’m not going against my will to a doctor. And the draft would cost me my job too so they would have to pay me very well. I personally don’t think we are going to draft they would have to call the inactive reserves first. I have two coworkers who are thinking about going back in. I have no desire to go in. I’m really surprised they would have to resort to this but I guess it makes sense. It’s just not for me.

So much naïveté in one post…so very much…

Yep, the draft would cost you your job. That’s how it works.

No, you don’t get to tell them what you will get paid. Quite the contrary, they tell you what you get paid, you have zero say. That’s how it works. They give you a rank, and that determines your pay.

Given your experience, you would be a private. You should really think about your position though, as the Army would pay you more as a private than you’re making right now, and it includes free medical/dental, retirement benefits, and education benefits. It would be a step up for you.

Refusal to comply if drafted gets you jail time, bud. Jail time. Which is as it should be, it’s called “treason”. You don’t get to say no. Even Elvis Presley had to go when the Army drafted him. Biggest star ever, and he served his time. If Elvis couldn’t get out of it, what makes you think you can? Why do you think all those draft dodgers during Vietnam fled to other countries? Because they were going to jail if they were caught. The only way to be sure to avoid that arrest was to leave the country.

But, you need not worry, for a couple reasons, first, you probably can’t pass the fitness test. Most of your peers can’t, and your diet and lack of exercise aren’t helping.

And second, we don’t have a draft, nor are we likely to in the near future.

 

[CKN]

A land war is a loser for the U.S.-we haven't won one in a while. Can't really count the "Gulf Wars" - those nations didn't have weapons of any consequence. The next war will be fought with missiles and bombs-not by boots on the ground.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

My thoughts are unfortunately I’m in the age group that’s required to be on the list. I’m glad those recruiters stopped calling me. I will absolutely refuse the exam they make you go thru for the military I’ll tell them if they want me that bad I’m not going against my will to a doctor....

My guess is that any new draft legislation in peacetime would provide alternates similar to what Germany and other countries do. You can do an alternate civil service for the one-to-two years, but that wasn't an option during the Cold War so IDK...

 

[Revving2Redline]

This is just my personal opinion (along with those on the internet):

Putin just want to make sure Ukraine, Belarus, etc aren't turning against them, so he make sure those who cross the line is punished. Will Putin win? He probably won't, but I think eventually he will just want to destroy Ukraine enough to make it worthless to the rest of the world.

China, just want to make sure Russia does not collapse, and Ukraine winning the war sending hope to Taiwan telling them it is worth trying to declare independent. If Russia collapse then the only enemy left for NATO would be China, so make sure Russia is healthy enough to not collapse is very important, and make sure Taiwan doesn't try to mimic Ukraine is also very important.

I've mentioned why China doesn't want Taiwan to go "independent" already in the past (so the rest of China won't try to copy), and also why it doesn't want to invade Taiwan (it won't win, and everyone in the world would be in a massive financial collapse, not worth any gain). I'll not repeat it again.

You don't win a war with just a few bombs, the logistics is where a long drawn war is won or lost.

I think the most important thing to have would be a toilet paper sergeant. no man's army would make a move without toilet paper

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

A draft makes it far too easy to send soldiers overseas. If it was about defending only the actual US borders, there might be a good argument for it, but then we'd need fewer soldiers in the first place.

Um, no, quite the opposite actually, which is why we went All Volunteer after Vietnam. This despite many in the Joint Chiefs having a stroke over the prospect of no draft...

 

[Astro14]

For the record, I am a fan of the all volunteer force. Conscription tends to get you a lower quality soldier.

 

[wag123]

For the record, I am a fan of the all volunteer force. Conscription tends to get you a lower quality soldier.

But you also get a few higher quality soldiers in the mix. Furthermore, military service can turn some low quality conscripts into high quality soldiers, I have seen this with my own two eyes.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

This is just my personal opinion (along with those on the internet):

Putin just want to make sure Ukraine, Belarus, etc aren't turning against them, so he make sure those who cross the line is punished. Will Putin win? He probably won't, but I think eventually he will just want to destroy Ukraine enough to make it worthless to the rest of the world.
...

Um, it's the opposite. Ukraine will rebuild and join NATO after the war and Belarus is already beginning to reject Poopy-pants from St Petersburg, even under his wannabe despot Luckyshank. How would he destroy the Ukraine now after much of his hollow army has been destroyed with 2/3's of their modern tanks gone? Nukes? No way.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

For the record, I am a fan of the all volunteer force. Conscription tends to get you a lower quality soldier.

I am as well for the time being. But I've been told by old timers that the period before Vietnam we had an excellent Army under the draft as they got educated and skilled people, often college graduates, to fill in specialized roles. The Vietnam era ruined the draft. Instances like "McNamara's morons" or Project 1000 and desperate moves to swell the ranks of a military that had to project large forces to Europe and Korea as well as Vietnam broke it:

 

[RDY4WAR]

An army is only as effective as its supply. You don't always have to defeat an enemy on the battlefield to make them capitulate. Look at Napoleon in 1812 when he invaded Russia. The Russians implemented a scorched earth policy that slowed Napoleon's army, forcing them to depend on their ever lengthening, strained, and constantly attacked supply lines. Though Napoleon still captured Moscow, it was much later than he anticipated, suffered far more casualties, and was unable to hold the position through the winter. He was forced to retreat from an inferior force because of supply and the weather. Go all the way back to the first Punic war where the Romans suffered 30,000 casualties to an inferior Carthagenian force at Agrigentum (Sicily) due to a lack of resources on the island.

Granted, modern warfare is fought differently, but the principle still stands. If you can disrupt your enemy's ability to wage war, you can defeat a superior force without direct engagements. Our doctrine has proven to be woefully vulnerable to guerrilla tactics.

 

[ATex7239]

But you also get a few higher quality soldiers in the mix. Furthermore, military service can turn some low quality conscripts into high quality soldiers, I have seen this with my own two eyes.

And how many people did you see wash out and/or be forcibly discharged?

Anyone who I saw (United State specific) straighten up and fly right after boot camp wasn’t really that far gone… Any decent paying career with drug testing and a strict attendance policy probably could have done the same thing for them.

 

[brianl703]

Some people think (incorrectly) that everyone in the military is a hard working, disciplined go-getter… Not true.

Not many people know that John Bobbitt was a Marine. Yes, that John Bobbitt. So the next time some politician tells me that I should vote for him because he was a Marine, I'll tell him that John Bobbitt was one too.

 

[OVERKILL]

So much naïveté in one post…so very much…

Yep, the draft would cost you your job. That’s how it works.

No, you don’t get to tell them what you will get paid. Quite the contrary, they tell you what you get paid, you have zero say. That’s how it works. They give you a rank, and that determines your pay.

Given your experience, you would be a private. You should really think about your position though, as the Army would pay you more as a private than you’re making right now, and it includes free medical/dental, retirement benefits, and education benefits. It would be a step up for you.

Refusal to comply if drafted gets you jail time, bud. Jail time. Which is as it should be, it’s called “treason”. You don’t get to say no. Even Elvis Presley had to go when the Army drafted him. Biggest star ever, and he served his time. If Elvis couldn’t get out of it, what makes you think you can? Why do you think all those draft dodgers during Vietnam fled to other countries? Because they were going to jail if they were caught. The only way to be sure to avoid that arrest was to leave the country.

But, you need not worry, for a couple reasons, first, you probably can’t pass the fitness test. Most of your peers can’t, and your diet and lack of exercise aren’t helping.

And second, we don’t have a draft, nor are we likely to in the near future.

Yes, I was a bit surprised by that post, he was lamenting being broke recently and feeling underpaid, then here saying "the government would have to pay me well because I'll lose my job..." The same job you've been complaining about where you have no money despite living at home with your parents? That job?

Edit to add: I agree with your sentiment, he'd be better paid and get some valuable training/discipline in the armed forces. My one son is a bit hard to keep headed in a straight-line and putting him in cadets really helped provide him with direction and the satisfaction of "doing something" besides playing Fortnight. The cadet program is a natural gateway into the CAF, which will pay him to pursue whatever career he wants, a valuable opportunity.

 

[thastinger]

An army is only as effective as its supply. You don't always have to defeat an enemy on the battlefield to make them capitulate. Look at Napoleon in 1812 when he invaded Russia. The Russians implemented a scorched earth policy that slowed Napoleon's army, forcing them to depend on their ever lengthening, strained, and constantly attacked supply lines. Though Napoleon still captured Moscow, it was much later than he anticipated, suffered far more casualties, and was unable to hold the position through the winter. He was forced to retreat from an inferior force because of supply and the weather. Go all the way back to the first Punic war where the Romans suffered 30,000 casualties to an inferior Carthagenian force at Agrigentum (Sicily) due to a lack of resources on the island.

Granted, modern warfare is fought differently, but the principle still stands. If you can disrupt your enemy's ability to wage war, you can defeat a superior force without direct engagements. Our doctrine has proven to be woefully vulnerable to guerrilla tactics.

Right, all wars are won with logistics. No force on this Earth can come remotely close to the logistical capability of the US...that is why we are 2 time World Champion.

 

[thastinger]

If Ukraine had been a member of NATO this whole thing would not have happened. So Canada should not have a treaty with another nation. And neither should any other country bordering Russia. We realize you like Russia but you are making it a bit too obvious.

Canada is like your obnoxious GF that picks a fight with the biggest dude at the bar and expects you (the US) to handle it.

 

[ripcord]

Canada is like your obnoxious GF that picks a fight with the biggest dude at the bar and expects you (the US) to handle it.

Can't think of a single instance where Canada did anything remotely like that. Canada is the best ally the US ever had and vice-versa.

 

[thastinger]

Can't think of a single instance where Canada did anything remotely like that. Canada is the best ally the US ever had and vice-versa.

Right...because they have the best fence on Earth...it is called America.

 

[Pew]

Bootcamp/basic is easy. I don't think anybody in my bootcamp company failed. MCRD-SD had a barracks floor where the separated or waiting the next training group because of medical reasons were in. From what I can remember, there were less than 100 there out of all the recruit companies currently training, ~3000 recruits at any given time between phase I-III in 2009. Everything is extremely structured and easy to follow.

Even the physical testing is easy (although the exercises may or may not depending on how much of an athlete start you were.) The minimum for the Marine Corps was 3 pull ups, 70 crunches, and like a 28-minute 3 mile; and graded on a points scale of a minimum of 180, to a max of 300 points. If you're not fit, just make sure you're not last. The recruiters will still work with you though in order to help you get into shape before bootcamp and plenty of exercises during bootcamp so unless you are morbidly obese, I graduated boot with people who left just as overweight as they did when they went in.

Misplaced egotism in the ranks really kill the military's professionalism and causes people to leave. Some kid died from bacterial meningitis because instead of giving him medical help, they called him a malingerer. Didn't let him get medical help until he was hours away from death. They sent him back home after several weeks in urgent care and he died few weeks after. Sometimes I wonder if his parents knew the truth, if they would sue.

 

[CKN]

Right, all wars are won with logistics. No force on this Earth can come remotely close to the logistical capability of the US...that is why we are 2 time World Champion.

We are also two times running with our tail between our legs.....

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Canada is like your obnoxious GF that picks a fight with the biggest dude at the bar and expects you (the US) to handle it.

Make sure you tell that to the Canadian Forces that served and died in Afghanistan after 911....