KIA OEM Filter TSB...

[300maximilien]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro

KIA is not obliged to convince you of anything. They are doing due diligence in issuing the TSB as information and guidance in case of failure.


See this is where I have an issue. The average owner will not ever know about this TSB. These are internal for the most part and are only shared with the customer IF needed.

So there will be 100's of thousands of people taking their Kia/ Hyundai cars to Quick Lubes and getting those cheap filters/[censored] oil installed without knowing they are harming their cars.

This is shady IMO

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: 300maximilien


See this is where I have an issue. The average owner will not ever know about this TSB. These are internal for the most part and are only shared with the customer IF needed.

So there will be 100's of thousands of people taking their Kia/ Hyundai cars to Quick Lubes and getting those cheap filters/[censored] oil installed without knowing they are harming their cars.

This is shady IMO


At some point the vehicle owner has to take responsibility for what he does and does not do to his vehicle. Littered throughout my Soul owners manual is statements to effect of consulting, recommending and/or having the service done by and authorized dealer maintenance department.

KIA corporate cannot control every circumstance or variable where a owner will take his vehicle to have servicing done outside the dealership network. Even then, the vehicle owner assumes liability along with the out of dealership service provider on serviceability of said products and services being done.

It is a little pretentious to expect KIA to inform every owner or blast the airwaves with warnings of what "may" happen. The TSB is just that, a "Technical Service Bulletin" and not a recall.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

While maybe KIA had some claims from the use of aftermarket filters, I wouldn't assume that KIA had any claims due to an E-core blowing out. I'm not trying to defend e-cores at all, but this TSB was not convincing of aftermarket oil filter failures. They posted the E-core cutaway to portray an aftermarket filter as not having a bypass and this is just false. If they had an actual failed E-core or any other failed filter they could've and should've posted pics. I think it was GM or maybe Ford that showed an actual filter failure, in that case the ADBV deterioted and clogged oil passages.


KIA is not obliged to convince you of anything. They are doing due diligence in issuing the TSB as information and guidance in case of failure.

While the use of a cutaway E-Core is not the best example to show lack of a bypass, it still does make the point that some filters have hokey designs and/or sub par manufacturing methods.


If they are not trying to convince anyone of anything then they wouldn't have made the TSB. They make a claim and then do a poor job demonstrating it. I don't think using an E-core was too honest. I'm not trying to defend E-cores but there's no real proof that their bypass doesn't work or that the pics of blow outs weren't caused by someone's thumb and that they ever caused an engine problem. Just because a bypass valve looks different doesn't mean it doesn't work. Again, I'm not defending the e-core design but a baseplate bypass has its advantages and KIA insinuate there was no bypass in the other filter.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
It is a little pretentious to expect KIA to inform every owner or blast the airwaves with warnings of what "may" happen. The TSB is just that, a "Technical Service Bulletin" and not a recall.


Agreed. What do we need next, a mail out to every registered owner of modern vehicles in North America to not buy City Star oil since if it wrecks the engine, it won't be covered by warranty?

Realistically, if someone is getting an oil change done by a shop, the dealers tend to have a reasonable price. If one is doing it oneself, don't buy a garbage filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The KIA TSB is a global CYA for them and a "heads up" for the dealership if someone comes in with engine issues that might be filter related. Could be the ecore filter photo they used was pure coincidence. At any rate, I'm not a fan of the ecore filter design regardless if anyone has proven they fail and can cause engine damage or not ... I just think the design is questionable in terms of reliability based on what I've seen posted about them.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx

If they are not trying to convince anyone of anything then they wouldn't have made the TSB. They make a claim and then do a poor job demonstrating it. I don't think using an E-core was too honest. I'm not trying to defend E-cores but there's no real proof that their bypass doesn't work or that the pics of blow outs weren't caused by someone's thumb and that they ever caused an engine problem. Just because a bypass valve looks different doesn't mean it doesn't work. Again, I'm not defending the e-core design but a baseplate bypass has its advantages and KIA insinuate there was no bypass in the other filter.


Look at the bottom of the actual TSB, the circulation list shows who the intended recipients are and who it was written for.

End user consumer is not the intended audience. To speculate what they should have done is dis-ingeniousness at best.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The KIA TSB is a global CYA for them and a "heads up" for the dealership if someone comes in with engine issues that might be filter related.


Exactly. Who really knows? It could be that Kia was getting zapped with warranty claims from DIYers using shoddy filters. For all we know, it could have been one or two dealerships using garbage filters to save a few bucks, then trying to pass problems onto Kia. Kia checked deeper, and found out about it.

After all, if a dealer were to sell and install an aftermarket filter, it's not the customer's fault. It's certainly not Kia's fault, either.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

If they are not trying to convince anyone of anything then they wouldn't have made the TSB. They make a claim and then do a poor job demonstrating it. I don't think using an E-core was too honest. I'm not trying to defend E-cores but there's no real proof that their bypass doesn't work or that the pics of blow outs weren't caused by someone's thumb and that they ever caused an engine problem. Just because a bypass valve looks different doesn't mean it doesn't work. Again, I'm not defending the e-core design but a baseplate bypass has its advantages and KIA insinuate there was no bypass in the other filter.


Look at the bottom of the actual TSB, the circulation list shows who the intended recipients are and who it was written for.

End user consumer is not the intended audience. To speculate what they should have done is dis-ingeniousness at best.

I don't see how that is relevent to my post or what the point is. I never mentioned the end user but it is the end user inevitably footing the bill for the oil filters.

Technical people should already know about aftermarket vs OE parts and ironically would be the most likely to realize that is a photo of an E-core. The reason KIA is distributing it to those individuals is so they will have a basis push KIA oil filters on end users and be quick to deny warranty claims if a aftermarket filter is used.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The KIA TSB is a global CYA for them and a "heads up" for the dealership if someone comes in with engine issues that might be filter related.


Exactly. Who really knows? It could be that Kia was getting zapped with warranty claims from DIYers using shoddy filters. For all we know, it could have been one or two dealerships using garbage filters to save a few bucks, then trying to pass problems onto Kia. Kia checked deeper, and found out about it.

After all, if a dealer were to sell and install an aftermarket filter, it's not the customer's fault. It's certainly not Kia's fault, either.


Exactly but it's also possible that KIA doesn't want to pay for an oil and filter change if the filter is aftermarket to diagnosis a problem that may be or may be not related to the oil filter. I'm not really blaming KIA but just saying the demonstrative photo in the TSB was pretty lame as much as that irritates Hootbro.

 

[Ross]

This past weekend I purchased 5 hyundai oem filter at the dealer in Fargo ND They charged $4.99 per filter plus tax.

oem# 26300-35503

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
...........I'm not really blaming KIA but just saying the demonstrative photo in the TSB was pretty lame as much as that irritates Hootbro.


I agree, the example photo raises more questions than it answers.

As to your perception of my irritation, sadly mistaken.

 

[ZeeOSix]

There are a lot of people who aren't very technical at all about vehicles, and many that will take their new KIA to a quick oil change place (or change it themselves) thinking all oil and filters are basically the same. The majority of vehicle owners will never know about a dealer TSB, because these TSBs are really meant for dealerships. TSBs get distributed on the internet through various channels, and owners who purposely go searching for them can usually find them pretty easily.

If someone gets an inferior or defective filter at a quick oil change place (or if they buy and put it on themselves) and it causes engine issues or damage, the dealership and KIA is under no obligation to warranty any damage that the aftermarket filter caused since it was not a genuine KIA part. The owner of the vehicle would have to make a claim against the filter maker to get any damage repair reimbursement.

The dealership service department is directed by the TSB to look for the proper filter and oil viscosity if a customer comes in with a complaint listed on the TSB .... that's all the TSB is saying. If the wrong filter and/or oil viscosity is used, the TSB directs the mechanic to install the correct filter and oil to see if that takes care of the customer complaint. I can see why KIA would want the customer to pay for a new filter and oil if the mechanic determined the wrong ones were being used. Warranty doesn't cover replacing incorrect aftermarket parts that are causing issues with genuine parts.

 

[mechanicx]

That's all true and plausible. But also if someone comes in for something unrelated to the oil filter, it's oil and filter change recommendation time at customers expense because that aftermarket filter even if a Purolator can't be any good. And if there is an issue that could be related to the oil filter but in actuality isn't, blame the aftermarket filter first even if it is a Purolator. Because according to that TSB it may not even have a bypass! The only solution is to use a KIA OE filter. That reasoning isn't only limited to KIA though, but the pic of the Ecore appearing to have no bypass again is kind of lame.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
That's all true and plausible. But also if someone comes in for something unrelated to the oil filter, it's oil and filter change recommendation time at customers expense because that aftermarket filter even if a Purolator can't be any good.


I think if someone brought in a new KIA for something unrelated to the filter or oil (say for an air filter change), and didn't complain about any of the engine symptoms outlined in the TSB, then the dealership probably wouldn't even look or care what oil filter or oil was being used by the customer. The TSB is meant to give the mechanics direction when a customer comes in with a specific engine complaint as outlined in the TSB.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Exactly but it's also possible that KIA doesn't want to pay for an oil and filter change if the filter is aftermarket to diagnosis a problem that may be or may be not related to the oil filter.


Agreed, and we all know that an oil and filter change are often the first recommendation in a FSM and some TSBs for certain sets of symptoms.

 

[bullwinkle]

The strange thing is the (tiny) filter for a Kia, if it crosses to a Puro L14459, wouldn't even be an Ecore design in the first place!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
The strange thing is the (tiny) filter for a Kia, if it crosses to a Puro L14459, wouldn't even be an Ecore design in the first place!


It might be in a different brand of filter ... like ST, or ACDelco.

 

[pair of Blazers]

just to stir the pot a little you also have to look at how long the KIA/Hyundai warranty is. this alone should be reason enough to get OEM filters.
Baldwin specs the filter @20 PSI so it is higher than Puro or Wix.