Is this whats wrong with BMW?

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: MCompact
None of my current BMWs have a warranty; I'm not terribly worried as they aren't anywhere near as complex as the Fxx cars. That said, what has turned me off BMW(after32 years of continuous ownership) is the shameless pandering to the poseurs, badge wh*res, and other assorted idiots who would buy/lease a "Beemer"[sic] even if it had the driving dynamics of a 1979 Chevette.
Munich's attitude towards those of us who want an engaging driving experience is basically, "Want a BMW that actually drives like a BMW? It's gonna cost you!"
And don't get me started on how BMW makes you pay @$3,000 extra in order to get a true LSD on an M235i- which already costs north of $44,000.
Yet another reason why this 33 year member of BMW CCA is almost certainly buying a new Mustang GT or STI rather than said M235i...


Some people want a LSD, some people want an M badge.
+1 There's a poser a couple of streets from me who has a convertible 320 series with an M badge, something that BMW never offered.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
what is led?
limited slip?
LSD a drug?
?
Look it up. You might be the only person on here who doesn't know.

 

[Andrew1972]

The reality is the m235i is really just the go faster model That happens to have an m badge all over it(tacky imho).

I have no idea of demographic who buys this type of small car. My guess saled are slow for a 2 dr tiny coupe. Reality is just like SUVs never seeing off-road only a small minority sees a track.

 

[Vikas]

Quote:
What one used to pay for in a BM is performance which can't be used in most of America without putting your license at risk
Can you name any new car sold today in USA where this is NOT true? Frankly, putting your licence at risk is such low low bar that it is not even worth mentioning.

 

[edwardh1]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
what is led?
limited slip?
LSD a drug?
?
Look it up. You might be the only person on here who doesn't know.


I did, no help. but maybe its my Toyota background thats messing me up.
Don't like abbreviations, you know , on my vacation i went from syp to zye but we had a stop in wlr for fuel????????

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
what is led?
limited slip?
LSD a drug?
?
Look it up. You might be the only person on here who doesn't know.


I did, no help. but maybe its my Toyota background thats messing me up.
Don't like abbreviations, you know , on my vacation i went from syp to zye but we had a stop in wlr for fuel????????

LED - light emitting diode
LSD - limited slip differential

 

[HTSS_TR]

The "Ultimate Driving Machine" should includes performance part with all vehicles they sell. LSD is not that expensive, probably costs manufacture few hundreds at most. Including it and raise the price by a thousand isn't keep potential customer away.

Honda Fit is a Honda cheapest FWD car competes with Yaris, Excel ... You should not expect these low end cars have any luxury feature such as HID, or performance part such as LSD.

In general, most manufactures play the marketing game, advertise low price for bare bone car but none is available, the only available cars are the ones with numerous options.

I'm standing on my belief that BMW M-Sports should not have LSD as an option. $3000 for LSD in a "Ultimate Driving Machine" that has MSRP of $40+k is ridiculous. HID is included in a $35k Japanese car and is $1k option in a $80k German car is plain stupid marketing.

Luxury brands such as MB, Audi should include luxury items in the high end vehicles that cost upward $60-70k or more. If every car has certain feature than that feature should be included in the MSRP. If needed, raise the base price to reflect the cost of that feature. They shouldn't play the cheap marketing game.

 

[edwardh1]

when my wife and I looked at a 3 series years ago the Japanese competition had electric seats standard and moonroof also.
Bmw said, "electric seat available only as a $3500 option package of moonroof and alloy wheels. Japanese said choose your color, BMW said some colors are $600

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
when my wife and I looked at a 3 series years ago the Japanese competition had electric seats standard and moonroof also.
Bmw said, "electric seat available only as a $3500 option package of moonroof and alloy wheels. Japanese said choose your color, BMW said some colors are $600

To be fair, that was when the 3-Series made the Japanese competition look silly when it came to the driving experience.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
when my wife and I looked at a 3 series years ago the Japanese competition had electric seats standard and moonroof also.
Bmw said, "electric seat available only as a $3500 option package of moonroof and alloy wheels. Japanese said choose your color, BMW said some colors are $600

This is just their deliberate approach. When you compare apples-to-apples, BMW is more expensive. This isn't some heavily guarded secret. But starting MSRP is about the same. So if a customer walks in with a set budget in mind, a BMW dealer can propose to him a stripped down version that will cost him no more than what he would have paid for an Acura or Lexus, and then give him the whole spiel about UDM, handling, driving dynamics, etc. so that the buyer forgets about all the extra features that would have been included on an Acura or Lexus. Then you have those customers that don't really care about these extra features - they just want the BMW logo, and they want to pay no more than for an Acura or Lexus, and so again, these stripped down BMW versions allow to hit that specific price point.

And it gets even more ridiculous on even more premium brands like Porsche. For example, on a Macan, you pay $3K for navigation, but it does not include voice control. That will cost you an additional $600. Something that's standard on navigation systems even in economy cars these days.

 

[Alfred_B]

Look at the options this way:

-- the car you want is the loaded car, set that as your base price. Then reduce the price by removing some of the "options" to lower the price.

That way it becomes more descriptive of what the expectations should be.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
The "Ultimate Driving Machine" should includes performance part with all vehicles they sell. LSD is not that expensive, probably costs manufacture few hundreds at most. Including it and raise the price by a thousand isn't keep potential customer away.

Honda Fit is a Honda cheapest FWD car competes with Yaris, Excel ... You should not expect these low end cars have any luxury feature such as HID, or performance part such as LSD.

In general, most manufactures play the marketing game, advertise low price for bare bone car but none is available, the only available cars are the ones with numerous options.

I'm standing on my belief that BMW M-Sports should not have LSD as an option. $3000 for LSD in a "Ultimate Driving Machine" that has MSRP of $40+k is ridiculous. HID is included in a $35k Japanese car and is $1k option in a $80k German car is plain stupid marketing.

Luxury brands such as MB, Audi should include luxury items in the high end vehicles that cost upward $60-70k or more. If every car has certain feature than that feature should be included in the MSRP. If needed, raise the base price to reflect the cost of that feature. They shouldn't play the cheap marketing game.


The Silverado came with a locker. $400 option.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


You are missing the relativity part here. If BMW/Audi/Mercedes have a spread of vehicles from 30-130,000 dollars and Honda has a spread of vehicles from 14-40,000 dollars, the same "range" of vehicles; the same "upper level" are going to have a lot of the same "standard" equipment. But on the Euro sleds you'll find things that Honda doesn't include and further levels of luxury that simply can't be fitted to a car at that price point.



Mercedes price point is significantly higher than competing manufactures. The S class for example starts around $90k and can be optioned to around $225k before customization or adding security features. The most loaded 7 series and A8's top out around $130kish, and both companies don't do customization anywhere near what Mercedes will do. The closest competitor is Porsche.

The HID option might have been $1k but in 1999 and 2000 respectively Honda's didn't have factory HID's, or radar cruise control, or a number of other features that the S class did.

As you said the massive price difference allows features that simply cannot be done at a lower price.

Their is a reason the 2016 Honda Accord cannot drive itself but the S550 can, in 2020 that might change for Honda.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy


...Their is a reason the 2016 Honda Accord cannot drive itself but the S550 can, in 2020 that might change for Honda.


...and lets hope not.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The HID option might have been $1k but in 1999 and 2000 respectively Honda's didn't have factory HID's, or radar cruise control, or a number of other features that the S class did.

Acura had HID as standard on some models, IIRC the mid-late 90's TL had HID as standard headlight. At the same time frame MB had HID as a $1k option on E and S classes. As a Honda brand, the 2000 S2000 had HID as standard equipment.

Think about it, a $40k Japanese car had HID as standard and $80k German car had it as extra cost option. Isn't it ridiculous marketing ? Trying to nickel and dime customers !

 

[DoubleWasp]

When you can buy a Corolla LE and get LEDs standard, it is definitely time for the luxury manufacturers to start thinking about dropping the halogens completely.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
When you can buy a Corolla LE and get LEDs standard, it is definitely time for the luxury manufacturers to start thinking about dropping the halogens completely.


For MB, it's an extra $1500 option for LED, but you get active curve illumination and corner illuminating front lamps plus active high beam assist. I had a rental Corolla once, had the LED which I didn't think were as bright as the Bi-xenon. Active curve illumination is pretty cool, the beams turn in the direction of the steering wheel. Helpful on ramps, normal headlights just end up shining on the guardrail, but the curve illumination actually shows the curved road. It's too bad they got rid of the headlamp washers though, I always thought they were one of the ultimate signs of decadent western civilization.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Think about it, a $40k Japanese car had HID as standard and $80k German car had it as extra cost option. Isn't it ridiculous marketing ? Trying to nickel and dime customers !


You don't have to think about it at all. Both brands are aimed at totally different markets and income levels.
It's the same reason why Acura dealers charge more for the exact same services as Honda dealers.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
When you can buy a Corolla LE and get LEDs standard, it is definitely time for the luxury manufacturers to start thinking about dropping the halogens completely.

Agreed.

In fact, the best headlights available should be standard on 100% of cars. Good headlights are a safety item, not a luxury item.

 

[Vikas]

When you buy 80K+ MB as your new vehicle, you want to brag about how much *more* you paid for your vehicle than your colleague. Those are not "value conscious" customers! People who purchase new bare bones high end MB cars are the "wrong" customers.

Comparing Acura option list vs MB/BMW/Audi/Porsche would easily tell you that Acura follows a different model. Heck even Lexus does not have Acura model as far as trims and options are concerned.

Bottomline:- Don't compare Acura with MB for options.