Is this whats wrong with BMW?

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
New battery every oil change? Charging only during coasting? This is retarded. BMW never figured in highway trips?

If the battery dips below a certain charge level, the car will charge it whether it's coasting or not. As has been pointed out, the problem isn't the drain per se; it's the cycling.

But yeah, new battery every 10k miles is unacceptable.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BTW
I've said it before and I'll repeat it here...

I would NEVER own a modern BMW out of warranty

And the same can be applied to other premium German makes, I'm afraid.



These cars were born to be leased.

Yup. Sad, too, because previous generations made great long-term cars.

 

[OneEyeJack]

There are bound to be problems when the EPA is in charge of the design process.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BTW
I've said it before and I'll repeat it here...

I would NEVER own a modern BMW out of warranty

And the same can be applied to other premium German makes, I'm afraid.



I do own a Mercedes out of warranty. Only been a year though. No turbo in mine, have the same OEM AGM battery, over 7 years old at this point.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BTW
I've said it before and I'll repeat it here...

I would NEVER own a modern BMW out of warranty

And the same can be applied to other premium German makes, I'm afraid.



I do own a Mercedes out of warranty. Only been a year though. No turbo in mine, have the same OEM AGM battery, over 7 years old at this point.

We did own an '08 C300 4matic. I was just glad it had ext warranty - it paid for itself many times over.

If we end up keeping the q5, we'll get an ext warranty for it too.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There are bound to be problems when the EPA is in charge of the design process.

BMW problems have nothing to do with EPA. BMW tried to increase horse power and at the same time increase MPG. Their solutions didn't work out.

EPA didn't specify how to design/engineer/manufacture any part of any vehicle, they only specifies how to test for MPG on city and highway cycles. And when manufacture changes the basic of the vehicle it must be retest with new part(s).

BMW probably knew that the correct solution(s) may effect MPG and this may leads to class action lawsuit, so they selected to do easy remedy, i.e., replace battery every oil change.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
We did own an '08 C300 4matic. I was just glad it had ext warranty - it paid for itself many times over.

If we end up keeping the q5, we'll get an ext warranty for it too.


I think the C class had a lot more problems than my E class. I just plan on taking mine to an indy and skipping the $200 diagnostic charge at the dealer.

 

[Danh]

The battery charging strategy BMW is using isn't so rare: the current generation Ford Focus does it as well iirc. They don't seem to suffer from shortened battery life, so it can be done.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There are bound to be problems when the EPA is in charge of the design process.

BMW problems have nothing to do with EPA. BMW tried to increase horse power and at the same time increase MPG. Their solutions didn't work out.

EPA didn't specify how to design/engineer/manufacture any part of any vehicle, they only specifies how to test for MPG on city and highway cycles. And when manufacture changes the basic of the vehicle it must be retest with new part(s).

BMW probably knew that the correct solution(s) may effect MPG and this may leads to class action lawsuit, so they selected to do easy remedy, i.e., replace battery every oil change.


My point as well. How this issue has become the EPA's fault is beyond me. No one is saying all BMW models are plagued with poor reliability but changing your battery every oil change is proposterous. I also think it would be safe to assume if this issue were set at the feet of GM, Ford, Hyundai etc., we'd have a bloodbath of opinion on this site. This issue is unique and specific to this engine design.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: wemay
My point as well. How this issue has become the EPA's fault is beyond me. No one is saying all BMW models are plagued with poor reliability but changing your battery every oil change is proposterous. I also think it would be safe to assume if this issue were set at the feet of GM, Ford, Hyundai etc., we'd have a bloodbath of opinion on this site. This issue is unique and specific to this engine design.


It's funny that it's beyond you, but you drive a Hyundai. Hyundai paid a 100 million dollar fine for misstating their gas mileage which ranged from 1-6 mpg. I think they also had to do something for the owners as they ended up getting less mpg than advertised.

 

[wemay]

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[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: wemay
My point as well. How this issue has become the EPA's fault is beyond me. No one is saying all BMW models are plagued with poor reliability but changing your battery every oil change is proposterous. I also think it would be safe to assume if this issue were set at the feet of GM, Ford, Hyundai etc., we'd have a bloodbath of opinion on this site. This issue is unique and specific to this engine design.


It's funny that it's beyond you, but you drive a Hyundai. Hyundai paid a 100 million dollar fine for misstating their gas mileage which ranged from 1-6 mpg. I think they also had to do something for the owners as they ended up getting less mpg than advertised.


Oh, I'm well aware of Hyundai's issues. Whether i drive one or not, am fond of the brand or not, the penalties levied were well deserved and i fully agreed with them. How does that relate to this? Nice attempt at deflection.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: wemay
My point as well. How this issue has become the EPA's fault is beyond me. No one is saying all BMW models are plagued with poor reliability but changing your battery every oil change is proposterous. I also think it would be safe to assume if this issue were set at the feet of GM, Ford, Hyundai etc., we'd have a bloodbath of opinion on this site. This issue is unique and specific to this engine design.


It's funny that it's beyond you, but you drive a Hyundai. Hyundai paid a 100 million dollar fine for misstating their gas mileage which ranged from 1-6 mpg. I think they also had to do something for the owners as they ended up getting less mpg than advertised.


Oh, I'm well aware of Hyundai's issues and whether i drive one or not, the penalties levied were well deserved. How does that relate to this? Nice attempt at deflection.


I thought it was clear, if they update it so that it charges, then gas mileage goes down and then they risk a fine because their numbers are no longer accurate. I think in total it was over $360 million for 1.1 million cars so over $300 per car. Easier to just pay for a few batteries and keep their name out of the paper.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: wemay
My point as well. How this issue has become the EPA's fault is beyond me. No one is saying all BMW models are plagued with poor reliability but changing your battery every oil change is proposterous. I also think it would be safe to assume if this issue were set at the feet of GM, Ford, Hyundai etc., we'd have a bloodbath of opinion on this site. This issue is unique and specific to this engine design.


It's funny that it's beyond you, but you drive a Hyundai. Hyundai paid a 100 million dollar fine for misstating their gas mileage which ranged from 1-6 mpg. I think they also had to do something for the owners as they ended up getting less mpg than advertised.


Oh, I'm well aware of Hyundai's issues and whether i drive one or not, the penalties levied were well deserved. How does that relate to this? Nice attempt at deflection.


I thought it was clear, if they update it so that it charges, then gas mileage goes down and then they risk a fine because their numbers are no longer accurate. I think in total it was over $360 million for 1.1 million cars so over $300 per car. Easier to just pay for a few batteries and keep their name out of the paper.


After re-reading the article, i see your point...

"The simple solution would be to reprogram the engine computers to keep the battery's state of charge at a higher level. But in modern cars, everything affects something else, often in the most unlikely of ways. Charging the battery more often would affect fuel economy, which would require BMW to recertify the cars with the EPA. The revised mpg numbers would inevitably be lower than the ones advertised. Hello, class-action lawsuit."

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There are bound to be problems when the EPA is in charge of the design process.

BMW problems have nothing to do with EPA. BMW tried to increase horse power and at the same time increase MPG. Their solutions didn't work out.

EPA didn't specify how to design/engineer/manufacture any part of any vehicle, they only specifies how to test for MPG on city and highway cycles. And when manufacture changes the basic of the vehicle it must be retest with new part(s).

BMW probably knew that the correct solution(s) may effect MPG and this may leads to class action lawsuit, so they selected to do easy remedy, i.e., replace battery every oil change.

Let him take his political potshots. Not worth getting into an argument over.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Danh
The battery charging strategy BMW is using isn't so rare: the current generation Ford Focus does it as well iirc. They don't seem to suffer from shortened battery life, so it can be done.

The charging strategy is only part of the problem.

Another part is that the engine runs so hot (twin-turbo 4.4L V8 with a "hot V" in a cramped bay) that the car sometimes has to leave its coolant pump and fans running for a bit after shutdown.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Having said that BMW's engines tend to be more fragile than Mercedes, their TT's V8's have no such issues.

Just had a thought about this. I know this BMW engine runs a "hot V", i.e. turbos in the valley between the banks. Does Mercedes do the same? If not, that might explain the difference -- I'd imagine there'd be less risk of heat soak if the turbos were separated from each other, and thus less need to run the cooling system after shutdown.

 

[MCompact]

None of my current BMWs have a warranty; I'm not terribly worried as they aren't anywhere near as complex as the Fxx cars. That said, what has turned me off BMW(after32 years of continuous ownership) is the shameless pandering to the poseurs, badge wh*res, and other assorted idiots who would buy/lease a "Beemer"[sic] even if it had the driving dynamics of a 1979 Chevette.
Munich's attitude towards those of us who want an engaging driving experience is basically, "Want a BMW that actually drives like a BMW? It's gonna cost you!"
And don't get me started on how BMW makes you pay @$3,000 extra in order to get a true LSD on an M235i- which already costs north of $44,000.
Yet another reason why this 33 year member of BMW CCA is almost certainly buying a new Mustang GT or STI rather than said M235i...

 

[edwardh1]

so if the fuel MPG was "adjusted" somehow for the "cost" of a new battery, and its associated life cycle costs what would the pull down on the MPG be? a new battery every year and its disposal costs?

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
so if the fuel MPG was "adjusted" somehow for the "cost" of a new battery, and its associated life cycle costs what would the pull down on the MPG be? a new battery every year and its disposal costs?


I think the point is that reprogramming the ECU would make the alternator charge while cruising, requiring more power, using more fuel and thereby reducing EPA mileage.