in shame; atf for subaru 4eat and frequency

[91camarosRS]

I see both arguments.....


Im thinking cooler for extra security...

Which one?do you have Links for magnets?

And lubeguard? I thought additives were generally bad besides limited slip additive for rears.

I would like to do what I can to help. I would like to get at least to 250 with this.

For cost of rebuild, I would like to go 6mt or even 5.


Maybe I should start another thread.. but what differential fluid? My rear has the notorious 65mph whine but has gotten better with age once royal purple went in.

Manual says 85w? For my temp range. It very rarely goes below 0degrees here in Oklahoma. But I think my rear has limited slip no note of additive.


And how do I swap brake fluid to make sure all is flushed out?. I'm thinking of doing all fluids with engine.


Any recommendations on antifreeze? I was suggested peak since low phosphorus or something like that? Then I was going to add redline water wetter or similar. Then once engine hits 100k I would take to Subaru for timing belt and water pump. They would put Subaru fluid in then.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Gradual does not mean any more or less contamination.

Yes it does.

You do a drain/fill and you're driving with 1/3 fresh fluid and 2/3 of worn-out, contaminated fluid. You do a pan-drop, cooler-line flush and you've got at least 95% fresh juice and a much cleaner system.


Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Yes, the more material out of the fluid the better... but that is why you get a new transmission filter for (don't forget magnetic drain pins). Enough D&F will remove just about as much as a flush if done enough.

And that's where the waste comes from. You need to use 3x more fluid (or more) to attempt to get it to the same level.

We're not talking about maintaining a clean tranny, we're trying to get it clean after neglect.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS
Im thinking cooler for extra security...

Like I said, unless you're doing track days or doing hauling, I don't think it's a concern. You should already have a decent cooling loop and you're not adding that much power to the equation.

Proper cooling can only help though, so if you have the time/resources then go to it.


Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS
do you have Links for magnets?

Get some strong ceramic pucks or donuts from the hardware store. I grabbed some packs of eight at Home Depot and they were stronger than the OE at the time of installation.

Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS
I thought additives were generally bad besides limited slip additive for rears.

They are a bad idea unless you know exactly what you're using and why you're using it. There is no shortfall in the MaxLife fluid that needs to be corrected that I'm aware of.


Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS
but what differential fluid?

Already went over that. Motul Gear 300 is the cat's meow but Red Line 75w90 or Amsoil SVG are great 2nd options. Any top-line synth will be good but for an extra $10 I'd go with great.

If you have a clutch LSD then use Gear 300 LS.

 

[91camarosRS]

I'm not thinking it would fill a shortfall, just help boost it. Lubeguard has a pre flush as well?

So how would I go about doing all of this? My car can't run and won't for a few weeks.

I only heard I have a ls. I head its viscous simalar to my center dif.
But again, only heard. Manual says nothing.

I have stayed off of the track for 3years but I have been tempted an autocross a few times. But don't for this reason. I blew my trans in my camaro because of it.

 

[91camarosRS]

Quick google search says vlsd

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS

I'm not thinking it would fill a shortfall, just help boost it. Lubeguard has a pre flush as well?

Yeah, you'd be surprised all the things you can buy! If you want to start throwing money it's only limited by you.

Get a service manual (or find one online) and do some research.

There is tons of great info out there, here's a few:
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f89/
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/tech-modifying-general-repairs/

 

[91camarosRS]

Oh I know I can throw money at it. Just wanna do what I can cash permitting. And best for money.

I like the idea of motul300 as mine should be due soon anyways and that is what I paid for the royal purple.

Now that I'm getting older, I'm realizing the importance of quality parts. That and services. I want my car to last. I like the reaction when people see the miles already. It would be nice to think up towards 300.


This is turning more into a general fluid thread so I hope moderators don't have a problem with..

Rotella t6 with Subaru or purolator gold filter. Change after a ew hundred miles.
Valvoline maxlife 2gal +1qt for ps use Subaru filters
Motul300 2qt

Dot3 brake fluid (do they make a different color to see it flushed?

2gal peak 50/50 with redline water wetter after flushing motor with a vinager solution I read on nasioc.


Thoughts?
I still need to decide df or flush

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: martinq

Yes it does.

You do a drain/fill and you're driving with 1/3 fresh fluid and 2/3 of worn-out, contaminated fluid. You do a pan-drop, cooler-line flush and you've got at least 95% fresh juice and a much cleaner system.


We're not talking about maintaining a clean tranny, we're trying to get it clean after neglect.


Shesh, do you know what a D&F routine is? It is not a simple 1 drain and done attempt. It is multiple D&F separated by the transmission going through the gears and repeat. At the end of the day, you get that 90-95%+ new fluid for a lot cheaper and for a lot less risk. You do not have to worry about someone doing the flush incorrectly, wrong machine or any other [censored]... because you drain and fill yourself to a specific standard. Flushes are more expensive, riskier they often use MORE fluid, and there is a lot higher reported failures after a flush (still many were likely using to flush to fix a bad tranny and that will not work). If the tranny is neglected, why would you want to use force to remove any containment? Use the design of the system, a good new filter, and let the new D&F fluid work for you with a lot less intensive actions needed to get the same result.

Don't go adding cheap magnet to the tranny. It already has a magnet on the drain pin, adding more will just keep the metal in different spots and likely attract it to places not as easily removed.

99% of all additives are "junk" but some are good. Lubegard is OEM recommended. Talk to any tranny guy about the product and listen. If anything, Lubegard increase the fail-point temp for a transmission, so it can save the tranny if something goes wrong heat-wise.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS


Maybe I should start another thread.. but what differential fluid? My rear has the notorious 65mph whine but has gotten better with age once royal purple went in.

Manual says 85w? For my temp range. It very rarely goes below 0degrees here in Oklahoma. But I think my rear has limited slip no note of additive.


And how do I swap brake fluid to make sure all is flushed out?. I'm thinking of doing all fluids with engine.


Any recommendations on antifreeze? I was suggested peak since low phosphorus or something like that? Then I was going to add redline water wetter or similar. Then once engine hits 100k I would take to Subaru for timing belt and water pump. They would put Subaru fluid in then.


Differential YES! I did this and it was night/day in my Subie. When I get a chance, I will upload the pics of the diff's magnet. Holy mother of the six sisters. It was bad. I do not know if it was ever done. It was like giant globs of iron gum on the drain-pin. Out of all fluid changes I have done, this made the most notable difference immediately... and new brake fluid does just about as much

80w90 or whatever you manual recommends is what you use. 80w is good down to -36C maybe less if I remember my Legacy-Outback's manual.

For the anti-freeze, as long as it is not dexcool, I think you are fine. I use prestone FWIW

Brake Fluid is easy. Depending on how fast you are with accessing the brake bleeder valve (or a jack) you can do it in 15mins, but likely 1-2 hours if it is your first time. There is a lot of videos online on how to do it and even a few subaru specific ones. To make sure you are getting all of the various fluids out use different color brake fluids.

 

[05LGTLtd]

Use Subaru Super-S in your diffs. You can order quarts at fredbeansparts.com . Or see if your local dealer will sell you quarts if you bring the containers.

Use Subaru coolant or peak global.

Go to DOT 4 brake fluid. Higher boiling point. I like ATE, you will be able to see when clean fluid is coming through when you flush. Just use a section if clear vinyl tubing to purge with.

 

[FutureDoc]

Ok, this is why you change your diff fluid.

 

[91camarosRS]

Already did differentals once.

I bought dot4 from oreiles. Hard to find colored fluid.





What would be the ideal d and f procedures? For the trans.

 

[FutureDoc]

Drain the pan via the drain plug, fill with the amount you removed, check levels and adjust if necessary. Then drive a few miles and let the tranny have a change to work though all the gears a few times. Drain, fill repeat. You can do it all in a day or you can break it up across a few weeks. I broke up the wife's honda over 4 weekends, did my Subie in one day. It really does not matter that much for as long as the tranny gets to push fluid around. I change the screw-on filter after the D&F are done.

You can work out the new fluid vs old in a few simple calculations depending on how much you remove and replace each time.

 

[91camarosRS]

What about internal filter?

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Lubegard is OEM recommended. Talk to any tranny guy about the product and listen.

It was recommended to address customer complaints from long ago. If they had MaxLife back then there probably would never have been an issue.

Over 200k on the tranny now and it's never felt better (especially the PS). Lubegard isn't needed because there are no issues that need to be addressed. I've already got that covered.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Shesh, do you know what a D&F routine is?

Absolutely and that's why I'm saying it's a waste of money, time and resources.

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
At the end of the day, you get that 90-95%+ new fluid for a lot cheaper and for a lot less risk.

Well, let's run the numbers then.

2002 WRX Service Manual
9.6L capacity (based on a rebuild)

That's about the same capacity on the Forester (not surprising, same tranny, same basic chassis). Based on my experience you get about 3.5L out of a drain but I don't have the actual measurement.

Let's assume you get 33% fluid from a drain:

D&F - Contaminated Fluid Remaining
1 --- 6.43L
2 --- 4.12L
3 --- 2.63L
4 --- 1.69L (17.6%)
5 --- 1.08L (11.3%)
6 --- 0.69L (7.2%)
7 --- 0.44L (4.6%)
So seven drain-N-fill later you have purchased ~ 23L of fluid, or 5 x 5L jugs.

If you get more fluid out of each D&F then the results get better.

Doing one, proper, drain, clean & flush you will use about 10-12L or half the fluid. You will also have a cleaner environment and more magnet-cleaning power (even if you just stick with the weak, OE unit).

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Don't go adding cheap magnet to the tranny. It already has a magnet on the drain pin, adding more will just keep the metal in different spots and likely attract it to places not as easily removed.

Then you've never done the work yourself to understand the difference. You can never pull too-much metal from the fluid. The OEM magnet, as usual, provides a very minimal amount of protection.

 

[i812]

Originally Posted By: 91camarosRS
Already did differentals once.

I bought dot4 from oreiles. Hard to find colored fluid.





What would be the ideal d and f procedures? For the trans.


Dot 4 brake fluid is fine. As I recall ATE is about the only colored brake fluid on the current market with yellow/gold. I just flushed my personal vehicle an '13MY Outback with Valvoline dot 3/4.

Diff fluid - redline, motul, amsoil, royal purple, and Subaru extra "s" are all great choices!

Have you verified what type of filter your transmission has? an external or internal filter? As for fluids for you trans that has already been covered.

 

[91camarosRS]

I can see external.

Does it not have both?

 

[i812]

No, it will not have both. Which makes it easier to drain and fill you trans fluid. Should look something like this:

 

[91camarosRS]

That is what I have