HPL Engine cleaner / 2015 Volvo XC60 high oil consumption progress report

[Astro14]

You’re into this experiment for awhile, now.

You could increase both viscosity and cleaning effectiveness by simply adding straight HPL Euro 0W30. I don’t see how a slight increase in viscosity would bring an increase in ring wear, but it might directly decrease your consumption.

I think low tension of the rings is more likely than carbon in the grooves reducing the ring mobility, but perhaps it’s both. The slight difference in viscosity between your 0W20 isn’t going to change how much oil is in the rings, but the increase in solvency from straight HPL should increase the rate at which things get cleaned up.

Personally, I would just drain this oil, fill ‘er up with the HPL 0W30, then check the consumption. Change the filter in a couple thousand miles, see what it caught.

 

[TiGeo]

Hi YZJB, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience.
I am by no means arguing your train of thought and results but only talking about my train of thoughts with desired outcome.

I been staying with Ow20 oil to keep the oil thin while I am using HPL EC 30W engine cleaner in hopes it will clean the piston and ring oil drain holes. It may take a few rounds to accomplish. I would like to know if the oil that doesn't drain behind the rings or any area can get coked up. If the piston oil ring can get hot enough in it's location, it could feasibly push the ring out and cause early ring wear. The reduced oil drainage may even keep the piston from cooling. If all this doesn't work, I will try a cylinder soak that will open up the drain holes and clean up the ring grooves (at least). If I still use oil after that, I will go to a higher viscosity oil.
To go to a higher viscosity as an initial solution would be putting a band-aid on the problem and could cause early ring wear if carbon is an issue.
Just my thoughts here. Any input is always appreciated.

This is somewhat a waste of time/effort. The EC is meant as a prep for the oil. Just drain/fill with whatever HPL oil you want (I agree with those recommending the 30 grade) and go...you will get more out of it that way.

 

[YZJB]

Hi YZJB, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience.
I am by no means arguing your train of thought and results but only talking about my train of thoughts with desired outcome.

I been staying with Ow20 oil to keep the oil thin while I am using HPL EC 30W engine cleaner in hopes it will clean the piston and ring oil drain holes. It may take a few rounds to accomplish. I would like to know if the oil that doesn't drain behind the rings or any area can get coked up. If the piston oil ring can get hot enough in it's location, it could feasibly push the ring out and cause early ring wear. The reduced oil drainage may even keep the piston from cooling. If all this doesn't work, I will try a cylinder soak that will open up the drain holes and clean up the ring grooves (at least). If I still use oil after that, I will go to a higher viscosity oil.
To go to a higher viscosity as an initial solution would be putting a band-aid on the problem and could cause early ring wear if carbon is an issue.
Just my thoughts here. Any input is always appreciated.

Just try it. It won’t hurt anything. A 30-weight will practically flow through the ring drains just as easily as a 20. It’s not like we’re going from a 20 to a 60…

 

[Jetronic]

Just try it. It won’t hurt anything. A 30-weight will practically flow through the ring drains just as easily as a 20. It’s not like we’re going from a 20 to a 60…

If viscosity was really an issue, the oil consumption would take place right after engine start and drop to nearly 0 as the ring pack heats up. going from a 20 to a 60 increases the hot oil viscosity about 3x, yet from cold to hot viscosity change can be hundredfold....

 

[YZJB]

If viscosity was really an issue, the oil consumption would take place right after engine start and drop to nearly 0 as the ring pack heats up. going from a 20 to a 60 increases the hot oil viscosity about 3x, yet from cold to hot viscosity change can be hundredfold....

I disagree with the first part of your statement. At engine start, the rings might not seal perfectly but the oil is at its thickest and the temperature of the piston, rings and cylinder are at their coldest.

Oil consumption usually occurs when the engine is hot, because the piston, rings and cylinder are hot and so the localised oil temp is very high which makes it easier for the oil to ‘slip by’ the rings. A higher HTHS visc. would help here (and I’ve seen it help on several of these engines, just for reference).

 

[Jetronic]

I disagree with the first part of your statement. At engine start, the rings might not seal perfectly but the oil is at its thickest and the temperature of the piston, rings and cylinder are at their coldest.

Oil consumption usually occurs when the engine is hot, because the piston, rings and cylinder are hot and so the localised oil temp is very high which makes it easier for the oil to ‘slip by’ the rings. A higher HTHS visc. would help here (and I’ve seen it help on several of these engines, just for reference).

Just read your previous message again. It contradicts what you say here, saying a 60 weight won't work

 

[YZJB]

Just read your previous message again. It contradicts what you say here, saying a 60 weight won't work

You’ve misinterpreted my point there. I was trying to say to the OP that trying a 30 weight won’t hurt as it’s not really that different to a 20 weight.

It’s not like we’re [making a huge change] going from a 20 to a 60. Hope that makes more sense

 

[350Rocket]

I don't think any of them, even a 60 would cause any extra wear on a vehicle that's burning oil. The biggest thing I don't understand is why anyone would keep using a 20 weight while burning a large amount. The only reason would be if it's still under warranty and that's the only thing the manual allows.

 

[RYDMOTO]

I don't think any of them, even a 60 would cause any extra wear on a vehicle that's burning oil. The biggest thing I don't understand is why anyone would keep using a 20 weight while burning a large amount. The only reason would be if it's still under warranty and that's the only thing the manual allows.

If you read thru all of the posts, you would understand my reasoning.

 

[350Rocket]

If you read thry all of the posts, you would understand my reasoning.

I read your thoughts, I just don't agree with them.

 

[RYDMOTO]

Ok all, I went another 300 miles to a quart down.

Upon the input I received here and conferring with Dave at HPL, I just ordered HPL's 5W30 passenger oil.
Once I do the oil change, I will change the filter at 2k and check the condition. If all looks good I will check at 5k
and so on. I am of course, expecting the oil consumption to drop. I will keep you all posted on how it goes.

In talking with Dave,It is a wise move to start with HPL EC for a few oil changes to do a slow engine cleaning rather than start
with HPL passenger oils as you can have a fair amount of sludge get loosened and overwhelm the oil filter. I have no idea of
the condition of the engine internals condition as we are not the original owner and considering the miles, it is better
to play it safe. Keep in mind that hardened coked oil can take time to dissolve.

On my wife's daughter's 2015 S60 with 60k on it, is not consuming oil but I am doing an HPL EC engine cleaning as a preventative measure. If I recall correctly, the XC60 started around 60k or 70k.

 

[RYDMOTO]

I read your thoughts, I just don't agree with them.

So what? At least I put my course of action out there so others can learn or fine tune their procedure. With that comes the critics
and with that also comes along some very kind and helpful people who help give direction or contribute ideas to think about.

I would rather be the player on the field doing my best to make plays happen than be sitting in the grandstand watching the large screen replay and criticizing the player for what he did or didn't do.

 

[RYDMOTO]

The Reason Some Volvo Engines Burn Oil Volvo Problem

Hey all, I went 2 more 300 mile 1 quart down additions to use up what I had mixed up at 5:1 ratio.
I went with a Liqui Moly 15 min engine flush, drained the oil,installed a new filter and added 6 quarts
of HPL 5w30 oil. I have yet to examine all the filters changed during this process, but they are marked and
in baggies. I will post what I see. I will change the filter at the 2000 mile mark and replenish with the same
oil and will let you know how that filter looks. I can say this much, that there was no debris in the bottom
of the plastic spin on filter cartridge. At least a very minimal amount at most. I also added a link showing
the piston and ring issues with the 2015 era 4 cylinders and also shows the newer updated piston and rings.

until then, I appreciate all the input given here in the meantime.
.

 

[meep]

Late to the party.

I have had 3 Volvos. One used a quart every 1000 miles. In all of them I gave them a half can of seafoam into the sump for the first few OCIs. This particular one, I ran half a can of seafoam for about 35k. In 15-20k, all of its oil consumption stopped. It didn’t happen overnight. Oil was penzoil platinum. This vehicle continued to catch solid particulate, and a lot of it, in its filter and cartridge, for the rest of the time I knew it - family had it up to about 200k.

Oh, and on Acura’s SH-AWD. IIRC, gen 1 mdx shop manual spec for axle clutch strength is something like 145 foot/pounds, per axle. That’s what the axle clutch is designed to carry. Times two. So the rear total torque is roughly 300 foot/pounds. The tires are about 30 inches? So maybe 230 pounds of thrust is all the rear end of the vehicle is good for? Works great in the snow, we had one. And it’s enough to really assist in pulling out into traffic - it’s a very effective system. It is however also limited in what it can do.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

The Reason Some Volvo Engines Burn Oil Volvo Problem

Hey all, I went 2 more 300 mile 1 quart down additions to use up what I had mixed up at 5:1 ratio.
I went with a Liqui Moly 15 min engine flush, drained the oil,installed a new filter and added 6 quarts
of HPL 5w30 oil. I have yet to examine all the filters changed during this process, but they are marked and
in baggies. I will post what I see. I will change the filter at the 2000 mile mark and replenish with the same
oil and will let you know how that filter looks. I can say this much, that there was no debris in the bottom
of the plastic spin on filter cartridge. At least a very minimal amount at most. I also added a link showing
the piston and ring issues with the 2015 era 4 cylinders and also shows the newer updated piston and rings.

until then, I appreciate all the input given here in the meantime.
.

If you want to do a quick interim step, pull all the plugs and rotate the crank til all the cylinders are roughly mid-stroke. Pour in two ounces of Berryman’s B-12, crank it over 2-3 revolutions, and let it sit for 24 hours. After that, turn it over for about 5 seconds with the key, then dump another 2 ounces in each hole.

Let it sit for another 24 hours. Crank it over for about 5 seconds. Reinstall the plugs & ignition, change the oil & filter to your next fill, and see where you end up. Berryman’s is a very powerful solvent, and since you’re not running the engine with the solvent in it, there’s less risk. If there’s any hope of freeing your rings & sealing it back up, this will give you the answer.