HPL Engine Cleaner 30 (My impressions after use).

[Bill7]

I just wanted to share my impressions after using the HPL Engine Cleaner 30.

I have 4 2006-2007 Honda Odysseys with the J35A7 with VCM enabled.
Since these engines are prone to sludge, I have been doing solvent based engine flushes with each of the last 3 oil changes.
I've used 3 different brands of engine flush: LiquiMoly Proline engine flush, STP Concentrated engine cleaner, and BG EPR 109.
Oil drain after the solvent based engine flush comes out medium brown (same color if no flush was done).
It lead me to believe the engines are already clean inside, and the reason the oil came out clean looking during the oil change was that there was no sludge/varnish in the engine to clean.

I then tried 1 quart EC30 + 3.5 quarts of low priced full synthetic 5W-30 and ran it for 4,000 miles. The oil after about 3,000 miles was dark and gritty looking on the dipstick, and when it was drained at 4,000 miles, the oil looked very dark (almost black). This has never happened before in any of the 4 Odysseys, to have oil almost black in color to drain out.

My experience seems to indicate that solvent based engine flushes are limited in what they can do, and don't do very much.
But the HPL EC30 may have actually done some serious cleaning in places that the solvent based engine flushes had no effect on.

An economical way to really clean out your engine might be to use 1 quart HPL EC 30 + 3.5 quarts low priced synthetic with every oil change.
The Ester in the HP EC 30 could also act like a high mileage oil, swelling your oil seals to prevent leaks.

Would anyone know if there is some long term reason not to run 1 quart HPL EC 30 with every oil change (like damage to seals or abrasive or more engine wear)?

 

[Brian123]

If I wanted to do some cleaning I would either order a case or 2 gallons of HPL PCMO oil. My car holds 6 quarts, so I would have some extra oil if needed.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I just wanted to share my impressions after using the HPL Engine Cleaner 30.

I have 4 2006-2007 Honda Odysseys with the J35A7 with VCM enabled.
Since these engines are prone to sludge, I have been doing solvent based engine flushes with each of the last 3 oil changes.
I've used 3 different brands of engine flush: LiquiMoly Proline engine flush, STP Concentrated engine cleaner, and BG EPR 109.
Oil drain after the solvent based engine flush comes out medium brown (same color if no flush was done).
It lead me to believe the engines are already clean inside, and the reason the oil came out clean looking during the oil change was that there was no sludge/varnish in the engine to clean.

I then tried 1 quart EC30 + 3.5 quarts of low priced full synthetic 5W-30 and ran it for 4,000 miles. The oil after about 3,000 miles was dark and gritty looking on the dipstick, and when it was drained at 4,000 miles, the oil looked very dark (almost black). This has never happened before in any of the 4 Odysseys, to have oil almost black in color to drain out.

My experience seems to indicate that solvent based engine flushes are limited in what they can do, and don't do very much.
But the HPL EC30 may have actually done some serious cleaning in places that the solvent based engine flushes had no effect on.

An economical way to really clean out your engine might be to use 1 quart HPL EC 30 + 3.5 quarts low priced synthetic with every oil change.
The Ester in the HP EC 30 could also act like a high mileage oil, swelling your oil seals to prevent leaks.

Would anyone know if there is some long term reason not to run 1 quart HPL EC 30 with every oil change (like damage to seals or abrasive or more engine wear)?

I suggest contacting HPL directly

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

If I wanted to do some cleaning I would either order a case or 2 gallons of HPL PCMO oil. My car holds 6 quarts, so I would have some extra oil if needed.

If you are using HPL for the first time, the “official” method is to use the EC for an interval just prior to switching over to “full” HPL. The EC was designed to soften and remove accumulated debris slowly, so the filter is not overwhelmed. We’ve seen plenty of evidence of substantial (IMO) cleaning even on what were thought to be clean engines… wwillson, Overkill, Astro14, and a few other moderators, plus several members have all found carbonaceous material in their filters even though they had previously run only “good” synthetics.

So, the non-EC HPL is actually a stronger cleaner and protector, but if you took say a Toyota sludge-monster and went straight HPL, and didn’t change/monitor your filter frequently at short distances, you could likely do more harm than good if the filter plugged and went full bypass. Again, not super likely as long as you’re using a quality filter… but, since HPL is proving over and over to do all its maker claims, it’s safer to err on the EC & short OCIs for maybe 5-10k, then move on to HPL PCEO or HDEO as planned.

As I saw a business sign the other day, “safety is success”. Keep your engine safe, and it will be cleaned fairly quickly when using HPL as directed

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I suggest contacting HPL directly

@High Performance Lubricants

Hopefully racing season is winding down nicely

 

[OVERKILL]

I just wanted to share my impressions after using the HPL Engine Cleaner 30.

I have 4 2006-2007 Honda Odysseys with the J35A7 with VCM enabled.
Since these engines are prone to sludge, I have been doing solvent based engine flushes with each of the last 3 oil changes.
I've used 3 different brands of engine flush: LiquiMoly Proline engine flush, STP Concentrated engine cleaner, and BG EPR 109.
Oil drain after the solvent based engine flush comes out medium brown (same color if no flush was done).
It lead me to believe the engines are already clean inside, and the reason the oil came out clean looking during the oil change was that there was no sludge/varnish in the engine to clean.

I then tried 1 quart EC30 + 3.5 quarts of low priced full synthetic 5W-30 and ran it for 4,000 miles. The oil after about 3,000 miles was dark and gritty looking on the dipstick, and when it was drained at 4,000 miles, the oil looked very dark (almost black). This has never happened before in any of the 4 Odysseys, to have oil almost black in color to drain out.

My experience seems to indicate that solvent based engine flushes are limited in what they can do, and don't do very much.
But the HPL EC30 may have actually done some serious cleaning in places that the solvent based engine flushes had no effect on.

An economical way to really clean out your engine might be to use 1 quart HPL EC 30 + 3.5 quarts low priced synthetic with every oil change.
The Ester in the HP EC 30 could also act like a high mileage oil, swelling your oil seals to prevent leaks.

Would anyone know if there is some long term reason not to run 1 quart HPL EC 30 with every oil change (like damage to seals or abrasive or more engine wear)?

Now try their oil.

 

[buster]

Switch to their oil and you won't have to worry about adding anything in the future.

 

[Brian123]

If you are using HPL for the first time, the “official” method is to use the EC for an interval just prior to switching over to “full” HPL. The EC was designed to soften and remove accumulated debris slowly, so the filter is not overwhelmed. We’ve seen plenty of evidence of substantial (IMO) cleaning even on what were thought to be clean engines… wwillson, Overkill, Astro14, and a few other moderators, plus several members have all found carbonaceous material in their filters even though they had previously run only “good” synthetics.

So, the non-EC HPL is actually a stronger cleaner and protector, but if you took say a Toyota sludge-monster and went straight HPL, and didn’t change/monitor your filter frequently at short distances, you could likely do more harm than good if the filter plugged and went full bypass. Again, not super likely as long as you’re using a quality filter… but, since HPL is proving over and over to do all its maker claims, it’s safer to err on the EC & short OCIs for maybe 5-10k, then move on to HPL PCEO or HDEO as planned.

As I saw a business sign the other day, “safety is success”. Keep your engine safe, and it will be cleaned fairly quickly when using HPL as directed

I have been doing 5000 Mile OCI's with, in order

1) Pennzoil Platinum
2) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum
3) Mobil 1 ESP

So from when I got the car at 5000 miles and up until 50,000 miles I was using Pennzoil Platinum. From 50,000 miles to 100,000 miles, it was Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. The last 20,000 miles has been Mobil 1 ESP, I see at least for me, no need to use HPL's Cleaner. Now if I was using a cheaper oil then I could see using the HPL Engine Cleaner.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Switch to their oil and you won't have to worry about adding anything in the future.

Feels kinda like the old Prego commercials where the Italian mom is telling them to add “the good stuff” to the sauce, and the punchline was, “it’s in there”

Or something similar. It’s been decades since we had wholesome, truthful advertising on TV…

 

[wwillson]

I then tried 1 quart EC30 + 3.5 quarts of low priced full synthetic 5W-30 and ran it for 4,000 miles. The oil after about 3,000 miles was dark and gritty looking on the dipstick, and when it was drained at 4,000 miles, the oil looked very dark (almost black). This has never happened before in any of the 4 Odysseys, to have oil almost black in color to drain out.

Did you cut the media out of the filter so you can see if anything was caught?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I have been doing 5000 Mile OCI's with, in order

1) Pennzoil Platinum
2) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum
3) Mobil 1 ESP

So from when I got the car at 5000 miles and up until 50,000 miles I was using Pennzoil Platinum. From 50,000 miles to 100,000 miles, it was Pennzoil Ultra Platinum. The last 20,000 miles has been Mobil 1 ESP, I see at least for me, no need to use HPL's Cleaner. Now if I was using a cheaper oil then I could see using the HPL Engine Cleaner.

You may want to check @OVERKILL ’s thread on his Grand Cherokee SRT and RAM… using Ravenol & M1 EP, and when he switched to HPL there was enough stuff removed to be surprising…

Edited to correct mixed memories

 

[OVERKILL]

You may want to check @OVERKILL ’s thread on his Grand Cherokee SRT… he used nothing but M1EP from literally brand new… and when he switched to HPL there was enough stuff removed to be surprising…

That was the RAM 1500, the SRT had Ravenol, but it had very few miles on it, the truck had quite a bit more, and its filter was ugly.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

That was the RAM 1500, the SRT had Ravenol, but it had very few miles on it, the truck had quite a bit more, and its filter was ugly.

It’s been awhile.. thx

 

[Bill7]

If I wanted to do some cleaning I would either order a case or 2 gallons of HPL PCMO oil. My car holds 6 quarts, so I would have some extra oil if n

Did you cut the media out of the filter so you can see if anything was caught?

The oil change was done at a discount tire place who do all my oil changes. I should have asked for the old filter, and bought a filter opener from Amazon. Will try that the next time when I try it for the first time in one of my other vans. Thanks for that idea.

 

[Bill7]

The HPL EC30 is suppossed to be only used for 2,000 mile oil change intervals.

Would there be a downside to the engine if as a permanent solution I did this with every 4k-5k mile oil change:
3.5 Quarts SuperTech HMFS + 1 quart HPL EC30 for the entire 4k-5k run for every oil change.

I was just concerned about engine wear or damage to seals.

The cost would only be ((18.98/5)*3.5)+15=$28.29 for the 4.5 quarts.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

The HPL EC30 is suppossed to be only used for 2,000 mile oil change intervals.

Would there be a downside to the engine if as a permanent solution I did this with every 4k-5k mile oil change:
3.5 Quarts SuperTech HMFS + 1 quart HPL EC30 for the entire 4k-5k run for every oil change.

I was just concerned about engine wear or damage to seals.

The cost would only be ((18.98/5)*3.5)+15=$28.29 for the 4.5 quarts.

As long as you’re under the 20% EC-to-oil ratio advised by HPL… I’m sure they made that number known for a reason.

 

[Oliveoil2]

Bill7 email HPL. They are very responsive.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

The 20% and 2000 mile is as best as I can tell the conservative for unknown motor conditions so you don't clog filters as mentioned. I had some emails with Dave and feel confident in my scenarios running it longer. I posted the 3k filter from my daughters 227k CRV in the OTC and 3rd party additives section. Mostly dealer changes with whatever they used for first 210k. We got from my sister/BIL who bought it new. PP or M1 since my daughter got it. It had a BG EPR flush last year.

I will be doing a full change on that around thanksgiving which will be 4-5k. It will get another EC30 round since I bought a 6 pack. My Accord and sons Forte will get the same.

After that I plan to use a qt of HPL's regular PCMO at each change and also check filters each change. Basically as you are thinking with regular use of EC30 but with more stuff in the oil. I'm not planning on extended drains due to use conditions with a lot of shorter trips. I'd rather change earlier after my UOA results from my '19 Pilot. If I was running longer or had more available $$, I'd probably go full HPL based on results here at BITOG and what I see in the CRV filter.

Waiting for filter to drain from the Accord so I can cut open and wrap in paper towels. I just took it off Monday with 3500 miles of EC30 so I can check it. '17 Accord with 99k. M1 or PP since about 55k, I bought it 49k with unknown OCI history except fresh oil/filter from dealer I bought from.

Forte will be the same, has just over 3k on this OCI so far with EC30 in it.

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Just getting in after night one at the World Finals for the World of Outlaws. Last race week of the season.

The EC 30 when used at the correct ratio leaves the ester concentration in a safe range to be used all the time. It will also help maintain pliability of the elastomers.

That being said my recommendation would still be to migrate to the oil which contains AN’s in addition to the ester. Recent under valve cover pictures posted by wwillson with only 2 oil changes in 50,000 miles demonstrates the fully formulated oil’s ability to maintain cleanliness while allowing it to stretch its legs so to speak.

As it has been mentioned before you can always mix things and get acceptable results however using something that is properly balanced can return great results.

Fortunately it can be done either way. Cheap oil with EC30 for short drains or our PCMO for clean running extended drains.

David

 

[Bill7]

Just getting in after night one at the World Finals for the World of Outlaws. Last race week of the season.

The EC 30 when used at the correct ratio leaves the ester concentration in a safe range to be used all the time. It will also help maintain pliability of the elastomers.

That being said my recommendation would still be to migrate to the oil which contains AN’s in addition to the ester. Recent under valve cover pictures posted by wwillson with only 2 oil changes in 50,000 miles demonstrates the fully formulated oil’s ability to maintain cleanliness while allowing it to stretch its legs so to speak.

As it has been mentioned before you can always mix things and get acceptable results however using something that is properly balanced can return great results.

Fortunately it can be done either way. Cheap oil with EC30 for short drains or our PCMO for clean running extended drains.

David

Hi David,

Thanks for your reply. I decided to create the post instead of sending a private message as others can benefit as well from this knowledge.

[1] Regarding the correct ratio:
My sump holds 4.5 quarts. I've added 1 full quart of HPL EC 30, so my concentration is 1/4.5=22.2%. Is a 22.2% concentration still ok?

[2] Questions on HPL EC 30:
[2a] EC 30 is a straight SAE 30 weight oil (not a 5W-30), right?

[2b] Does it contain about 5 times as much Ester content as 1 quart of your HPL PCMO 5W-30 (but without the "AN").

[2c] Besides the Ester content, is the rest of the EC 30 oil the same as any Group III full synthetic, or does it have higher levels
of detergents/dispersants?

Thanks,
Bill