I have a feeling there is a mechanical issue here that no oil or additive is going to correct.
HPL EC treatment started. 2007 Camry 2AZ-FE 153k consumption.
- Thread starter skaughtz
- Start date
You are probably correct, but mechanical isn't getting fixed and I have already spent the money on the chemicals so that's what I'm doing for now. If it makes everyone feel better she is only getting SuperTech oil and Purolator Tech filters from here on out.
No harm in trying. I agree I'd be using the cheapest oil and filters money could buy until I fixed or sold the car.
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- Oct 3, 2023
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Have you tried the double EGR flush yet? If I remember HPL EC works at a very slow rate to work itself in full oil service life interval. I think a strong solvent flush would've given you a head start on this ordeal.
And yeah given the age of your vehicle and rate of consumption, I think the cylinder walls are oval-ed up.
And yeah given the age of your vehicle and rate of consumption, I think the cylinder walls are oval-ed up.
I am giving the EC a full 3000 miles and then running a can of EPR when I change the oil. I probably should have done it reverse, but this has been a learn as I go thing with the advice I have been getting. Either way, if 3000 miles of EC and then a can of EPR don't show some sort of measurable improvement, I will probably stop.
Don't stop. This will take some schedule planning, but give it as long of a piston soak as possible with Berryman B12. From all who have done it with good results - 5 days or more with constant top-offs and hand turning of the crankshaft (a couple/few times per day) seems to be the key.
Update #8
End OCI1
BG EPR Run
Start OCI2
March 3, 2024. 155,758 miles. 2638.5 miles into OCI1. 368 miles since last top off. 1.0 quart added. ~7.5 quarts total burned.
Burn rate history: 266.3 miles/quart, 482.5 miles/quart (250+miles highway), 286 miles/quart, 347 miles/quart (110 miles highway), 341 miles/quart, 365.6 miles/quart, 369 miles/quart.
Burn rate since last top-off: 368 miles/quart.
Average OCI1 burn rate: 346.1 miles/quart.
Cumulative OCI1 burn rate: 351.9 miles/quart.
So I jumped the gun a bit because I had a free Sunday morning and my near-future weekends are quickly filling up. I was going to wait until 3,000 miles, but she was due for a top-off so I decided to hit her with the BG EPR and change the oil. I didn't want to overfill her so I threw in 0.75 quarts from an unopen PPHM quart I have had in my trunk for years now. As such, this last data point is a bit unreliable, but I think if I had added the remaining 0.25 quart it would have put her back where she was the last time I topped her off, so I am going with 1.0 quarts burned, which pretty much keeps her exactly in line with the last two measurements.
Where she was
0.5 quarts added.
After 0.75 quarts added.
Brian, I'm going to be honest with you. That smells like pure gasoline.
(Not really. It was quite pungent, though.)
She sat all night and I dumped the BG EPR into her when she was cold. Per the instructions I let her idle up to operating temperature before I revved her to about 1300 RPM, which was good enough for me since the can said 1200 RPM. The instructions say a minimum of 10 minutes, so I let her go for 25 minutes because I figured, what the hell, it's already in there. I noticed smoke from the tailpipe at around 5 minutes or so and it lasted another 7-8 minutes, but it wasn't stinking up the neighborhood by any stretch.
1300ish.
My assistant.
Nothing too bad. And yes, that is a 4-cylinder Camry with a spoiler. She's a race car.
What came out was pure black, smelled like acetone, and seemed more liquid-y than normal used oil. The FE3614 that I had on there throughout the OCI and for the BG EPR is set aside if anyone wants to see inside of it (DM me your information and I can ship it). Otherwise I might get around to cutting it open in the future once I get a proper opener (but I probably won't). I pre-filled a Purolator Tech TL20195 with my M1HM/HPL EC mix that I had remaining, dumped a quart of HPL EC into the crankcase and topped off the rest with my one remaining jug of M1HM 5W-30. The oil was so **** clear on the dipstick that I had to take her out for a 10 mile drive to get it dark enough to read correctly, and even then it is just barely readable. As far as performance goes, I don't necessarily notice anymore hitch in her giddyup, but she does seem to idle better with less vibration and noise. I don't think it is confirmation bias, but it could be.
Starting point exactly at the top dot.
So here we go. I am going to wait for 200 miles and if the EPR did anything I should be able to tell since by that point she should be more than half a quart burned down that dipstick. In the meantime all of you mechanical issue people can get your "I told you so" buttons ready.
End OCI1
BG EPR Run
Start OCI2
March 3, 2024. 155,758 miles. 2638.5 miles into OCI1. 368 miles since last top off. 1.0 quart added. ~7.5 quarts total burned.
Burn rate history: 266.3 miles/quart, 482.5 miles/quart (250+miles highway), 286 miles/quart, 347 miles/quart (110 miles highway), 341 miles/quart, 365.6 miles/quart, 369 miles/quart.
Burn rate since last top-off: 368 miles/quart.
Average OCI1 burn rate: 346.1 miles/quart.
Cumulative OCI1 burn rate: 351.9 miles/quart.
So I jumped the gun a bit because I had a free Sunday morning and my near-future weekends are quickly filling up. I was going to wait until 3,000 miles, but she was due for a top-off so I decided to hit her with the BG EPR and change the oil. I didn't want to overfill her so I threw in 0.75 quarts from an unopen PPHM quart I have had in my trunk for years now. As such, this last data point is a bit unreliable, but I think if I had added the remaining 0.25 quart it would have put her back where she was the last time I topped her off, so I am going with 1.0 quarts burned, which pretty much keeps her exactly in line with the last two measurements.
Where she was
0.5 quarts added.
After 0.75 quarts added.
Brian, I'm going to be honest with you. That smells like pure gasoline.
(Not really. It was quite pungent, though.)
She sat all night and I dumped the BG EPR into her when she was cold. Per the instructions I let her idle up to operating temperature before I revved her to about 1300 RPM, which was good enough for me since the can said 1200 RPM. The instructions say a minimum of 10 minutes, so I let her go for 25 minutes because I figured, what the hell, it's already in there. I noticed smoke from the tailpipe at around 5 minutes or so and it lasted another 7-8 minutes, but it wasn't stinking up the neighborhood by any stretch.
1300ish.
My assistant.
Nothing too bad. And yes, that is a 4-cylinder Camry with a spoiler. She's a race car.
What came out was pure black, smelled like acetone, and seemed more liquid-y than normal used oil. The FE3614 that I had on there throughout the OCI and for the BG EPR is set aside if anyone wants to see inside of it (DM me your information and I can ship it). Otherwise I might get around to cutting it open in the future once I get a proper opener (but I probably won't). I pre-filled a Purolator Tech TL20195 with my M1HM/HPL EC mix that I had remaining, dumped a quart of HPL EC into the crankcase and topped off the rest with my one remaining jug of M1HM 5W-30. The oil was so **** clear on the dipstick that I had to take her out for a 10 mile drive to get it dark enough to read correctly, and even then it is just barely readable. As far as performance goes, I don't necessarily notice anymore hitch in her giddyup, but she does seem to idle better with less vibration and noise. I don't think it is confirmation bias, but it could be.
Starting point exactly at the top dot.
So here we go. I am going to wait for 200 miles and if the EPR did anything I should be able to tell since by that point she should be more than half a quart burned down that dipstick. In the meantime all of you mechanical issue people can get your "I told you so" buttons ready.
I found this on a Toyota forum......
Hey all. I haven't been on here in years. I came back searching threads due to excessive oil consumption in my 2006 4 cylinder with 182000 miles. It was burning 1 quart every 600-800 miles. My wife drives it almost exclusively. She drives it like a grandma. I clean out the carbon once in awhile when I drive it. I'm always topping up the oil for her every week or two.
We missed the engine oil consumption campaign because our Rav wasn't using enough oil at the time to warrant a dedicated dealer trip. I'm am a former tech but haven't worked in the field for 20 years. I do my own work at home and bring the Rav in for warranty items and recalls at the dealer.
I had switched to Valvoline Maxlife full synthetic 0W-20, based on other people's recommendations. It didn't seem to change the consumption. Engine was tight and had no visible oil leaks.
I tried seafoaming the intake and adding it to the fuel system. No appreciable change.
I finally got fed up and dedicated a long weekend to it. I was near the oil change interval and was down a quart, as usual. I added a quart of marvel mystery oil. It says you can swap up to one quart of oil in a 5 quart system. I did that and put a large container of seafoam in the fuel tank with about a half tank.
I then went out and drove the car hard at highway speeds, keeping it close to redline for about 20 minutes. I basically used first and second great driving on the highway. The rpms stayed about 500 under redline. I figured I needed an engine rebuild anyway so who cares if the engine grenades. I wanted that sucker to get hot. I brought it home and it smelled bad from the garbage burning off.
I rechecked the oil and it was okay, although a little thinner due to the marvel mystery oil. I had the wife drive the car for another 500 miles until we were at the oil change interval. During this 500 miles, I had to add another quart about halfway through. I attributed it to the marvel mystery oil burning off.
When I was ready to change the oil,
I removed the spark plugs and sprayed a half of a can of Berrymans B12 chemtool into each cylinder. A total of 2 cans. I let that sit for 24 hours. After 24 hours, I placed some old rags over the spark plugs holes and cranked over the starter to clear out any liquid of the cylinders. Along with the Berrymans B12 chemtool, a ton of black carbon chunks came out. Make sure you use heavy rags because lighter ones will get blown away and Berrymans gets everywhere.
It took 4-5 short 2 second bursts to clear out the Berrymans. I then took compressed air and blew out each cylinder for good measure. I didn't want to have liquid left over in a cylinder and attempt a start, causing hydro lock.
I then changed the oil, filter and replaced the plugs and coil packs. Although I didn't do it, you probably want to add a few drops of motor oil to each cylinder before you replace the plugs. When I cranked it over the first time after reassembly, I could tell the oil had been washed away from the cylinders. The engine cranked like there was very little compression. It took a few cranks, but eventually the oil pressure built up and the engine fired and idled surprisingly smooth. I was planning on a new engine/rebuild/ junk yard motor so I wasn't too concerned about cranking it with washed down cylinders. In hindsight, I wish I would have added a little oil. Oh well.
Now the fun part. I usually filled the engine full on the dipstick, plus about 1/8 quart for a little extra safety in case I didn't get to check the oil while my wife was driving it.
The car drives smoother and definitely feels stronger. The city fuel mileage increased from 17-18 mpg to 20.8 mpg. It's been crappy since we purchased it new. The Rav TPMS is dead so I checked the tires and discovered the fronts were about 12 lbs low, rears 8 lbs low. We had a recent cold snap so that explains that. I imagine the fuel mileage will increase even more with properly inflated tires. I travel for work for a week or two at a time so I rely on the wife to check it. It's like pulling teeth to get the wife to check the oil and tire pressure.
So after 900 miles of driving, the oil level is down 1/8th quart on the dipstick. Interpolating those results equals one quart every 7200 miles. Even if I'm off 100% and it is half that, it is still one quart every 3600 miles. I am honestly amazed at the results. I have been checking the oil every 200 miles and am elated everytime I see a full / nearly full dipstick.
I was ready to dump the Rav for cheap due to the oil consumption. I figured I had nothing to lose. I spent probably $25 in solvents plus regular oil change supplies.
Maybe this will help others out there dealing with the same issue.
----The high RPM highway driving makes a lot of sense to de-carbon those rings ---
Good luck
Nice, although I would have used 5W30 with the MMO instead of 0W20.
I think
the lack of highway 
driving is why some cars get the issues that they do. Weekends were always used for getting Grandma's car out,checking the oil level,getting fresh fuel,going.to Furrs and a car wash right before we got home.Look forward to an update post BG109 
Update #9
200 mile check.
I realized I underfilled the oil when I changed it after I let it sit a little longer, so I added some shortly after and overfilled it a tad.
Buuuuuuut, not that it matters, because the mechanical issue people told me so.
WHOMP WHOMP.
So it looks like this experiment is over, because that is a lot of burn. I think I am going to save my remaining 3 quarts of HPL EC for my Civic, since although she doesn't burn any oil, she is not being driven much other than short trips so a gentle cleaning is probably a good thing. As for the Camry, I am going to wait until 360ish miles and add a quart of oil just to confirm things and bring this to an end. Eventually I might try a piston soak, but that won't be for some time since I doubt it will make a difference. I might run another can of EPR next time I change the oil just for ****s and giggles. Who knows? Since she is never getting the mechanical issue fixed, SuperTech will become her best friend.
I will do one more update when I top her off.
200 mile check.
I realized I underfilled the oil when I changed it after I let it sit a little longer, so I added some shortly after and overfilled it a tad.
Buuuuuuut, not that it matters, because the mechanical issue people told me so.
WHOMP WHOMP.
So it looks like this experiment is over, because that is a lot of burn. I think I am going to save my remaining 3 quarts of HPL EC for my Civic, since although she doesn't burn any oil, she is not being driven much other than short trips so a gentle cleaning is probably a good thing. As for the Camry, I am going to wait until 360ish miles and add a quart of oil just to confirm things and bring this to an end. Eventually I might try a piston soak, but that won't be for some time since I doubt it will make a difference. I might run another can of EPR next time I change the oil just for ****s and giggles. Who knows? Since she is never getting the mechanical issue fixed, SuperTech will become her best friend.
I will do one more update when I top her off.
Supertech HM 10w40 might be appropriate here then since your just gonna ride it out with cheap oil. Maybe a little less oil consumption and blow by going thick.
Once a 2AZ-FE starts burning oil be good to do correct fix. No thicker oil will fix it. I tried 20w50, 15w40 etc it still
Consumed and burned lots of oil.
I really suggest you revisit my thread on Project xB
It has almost twice the miles, and piston soaking/idle flushing turned it around
I would think you do the piston soak FIRST, to get things somewhat opened up, so that EPR and HPL EC can get in there to do more cleaning
Maybe mines an outlier, but with higher mileage and a worse maintenance history, mine shouldn't have been salvageable
B12 Chemtool is cheap, and surprisingly affective
It has almost twice the miles, and piston soaking/idle flushing turned it around
I would think you do the piston soak FIRST, to get things somewhat opened up, so that EPR and HPL EC can get in there to do more cleaning
Maybe mines an outlier, but with higher mileage and a worse maintenance history, mine shouldn't have been salvageable
B12 Chemtool is cheap, and surprisingly affective
At some point I will probably give it a shot, but I am admittedly terrified of hydrolocking the thing since I do still use her as my daily beater. I have watched enough videos where people either use a vacuum (which I suppose I could rig up some piping on my handheld shop vac to accomplish that) or cranking it with the plugs out to expel any extra liquid on top of the pistons... But I'm still not fond of the whole idea. With my luck I will miss something.
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