Honda Civic - Broken Timing Belt

[VicVinegar]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I have heard Hamilton Honda from NJ offers great deal on timing belt service. Many people from nearby states take a vacation day and make a day trip there and still save money on a timing belt job on their Honda.


No kidding. Thanks for the tip. They have a coupon on their site for $389 with OEM parts: t-belt, drive belts, and water pump. It says "tensioner may need to be replaced for extra $75".

I paid an independent shop around here $900 for t-belt, water pump, drive belts, tensioner, and valve cover gasket. Dealers were quoting me more than that. Coming up on 200k, and I think I might make the 203 mile trip to Jersey. I'll bring my laptop and lunch.

Now if only I could find a similar opportunity for a Nissan Xterra timing chain and tensioner in response to 2 TSBs on the issue.

 

[Vikas]

Listen to Tegger, he knows what he is talking about! And he also explained it why. Random rattles are most likely from exhaust system. My suggestion is to get a mechanics' stethoscope which are cheap and see if you can find the noise.

 

[Carnoobie]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
If I can find out where to tap for the exchaust parts i can definitely do that myself.

Your exhaust system has many light sheet-metal pieces bolted to the pipes in various places. These rust at their fasteners, and then they get loose.

Visual inspection of the exhaust will readily reveal the location of the sheet-metal shields. Many are under the car, so the vehicle needs to, at least, be on jack stands so you can crawl underneath to check. In some places--like on the exhaust manifold and the catalytic converter--there are TWO shields, one on either side.

If there are for certain no loose shields, THEN you start looking for other causes of the rattle.


Thanks. Im getting it checked out again tonight by another mech.

So jack the car up, i sit in the driver seat (since id have to apply gas cause thats when i get the rattling) and he goes under the car and check and tap all the exchaust parts that go from the intake manifold to the rear exchaust of the car?

And will use a stethescope too.

Where exactly is the cat. converter on our cars? i know where the exh. manifold is.

 

[Carnoobie]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Listen to Tegger, he knows what he is talking about! And he also explained it why. Random rattles are most likely from exhaust system. My suggestion is to get a mechanics' stethoscope which are cheap and see if you can find the noise.


True, but these arent random rattles, its everytime i apply throttle light or heavy at any rpm. When i apply gas, rattle starts, when i let go of gas the rattle dies and stops. and its definitely from driver side somewhere under the hood.

 

[MarkM66]

Sounds are subjective, it you really want some help over the internet, post a video.

 

[oiltard]

Perfect timing on this thread guys. I called my local Honda dealer in NW Jersey and got quoted just under $900 NOT including the tensioner for my 2005 Civic EX Coupe AT for timing belt and water pump replacement.

Found out they match coupons and printed the page from Hamilton Honda for $389 + $75 for the tensioner.

Maybe I'm nuts to do this on a car with just under 53,000 miles, but the door sticker says it was built in January 2005, and the manual says 105k miles or 7 years, so it's technically due. I figure $465 plus tax is cheap insurance and I'll be all fixed up this Thursday.

Thanks for saving me over $500 including the tax! You guys rock.

Oh, and the cat is directly behind the exhaust manifold on a civic. If you have a non-vtec setup, these are 1 piece (although the aftermarket replacements might be 2 pieces, the factory originals are welded together), if you have VTEC, they bolt apart. Cat is the next thing downstream from the exhaust manifold, before the muffler.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
So jack the car up, i sit in the driver seat (since id have to apply gas cause thats when i get the rattling) and he goes under the car and check and tap all the exchaust parts that go from the intake manifold to the rear exchaust of the car?

No, the car is OFF while you do this. You find loose shields by tapping them with your finger with the engine OFF. If your mechanic is even half-decent, he should be very familiar with finding such noises.

Tapping shields is something that takes maybe five minutes once the car is racked, and costs nothing but the labor time.

If there are no loose shields, THEN you look for other causes of such noises.

 

[Carnoobie]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
So jack the car up, i sit in the driver seat (since id have to apply gas cause thats when i get the rattling) and he goes under the car and check and tap all the exchaust parts that go from the intake manifold to the rear exchaust of the car?

No, the car is OFF while you do this. You find loose shields by tapping them with your finger with the engine OFF. If your mechanic is even half-decent, he should be very familiar with finding such noises.

Tapping shields is something that takes maybe five minutes once the car is racked, and costs nothing but the labor time.

If there are no loose shields, THEN you look for other causes of such noises.


Oh ok, so the cat conv. has shields on both sides and exh. manifold has 2 as well. I know where the manifold is, the cat conv...im guessing its right under the engine? Trying to look at videos and it looks like this thick pipe about dead centre in the hood under the car.

Aside from the 4 shields on the cat conv and exh manifold, is there any other shields to check under the car? Should i just be tapping the shields or every part that goes from the exh manifold to the back of the cars exh pipe?

Just want to make sure i know every shield to tap for when i take it to the mech tonight.

And if any of the shields are loose im guessing theyre easy to tighten back up without having to replace?

Thanks

 

[Carnoobie]

and if im correct theres also a 3rd heat shield right above the cat conv right?

The mech i took the car to two days ago and says its the tensioner most likely...even though he did at first think its an exh noise, i cant believe he didnt bother using the stethescope or jack up the car to check the shields under. If he had done that then i wouldnt be making another trip to a different mech tonight. ****in mechanics!

Even though he didnt check any shields under, hes still certain its the timing belt tensioner. I really hope to god i can find out tonight if its the shields causing the rattling cause i really dont want to pay this other mech 3hrs labour + for the tensioner if its NOT even the [censored] tensioner making the noise! I would be [censored]!!!

 

[mechanicx]

Sometimes engines mounts can rattle. Does the powertrain seem to move around or jerk when you accelerate? You can pry back and forth on the engine or the mounts and sometimes recreate the noise.

 

[Rand]

get a friend to record the noise and put it on youtube

your rattle might be someone else's..... moan.

harbor freight sells mechanics steth. both electronic and old fashioned kind.

 

[Carnoobie]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Sometimes engines mounts can rattle. Does the powertrain seem to move around or jerk when you accelerate? You can pry back and forth on the engine or the mounts and sometimes recreate the noise.


Just had my engine mount (front one) replaced last summer. But powertrain does jerk a tad wee bit when accelerating but not very noticable.

 

[Carnoobie]

Originally Posted By: Rand
get a friend to record the noise and put it on youtube

your rattle might be someone else's..... moan.

harbor freight sells mechanics steth. both electronic and old fashioned kind.


im gonna do that. Gonna see the mech in a bit and ill record it all on audio and post it on youtube.

 

[Texan4Life]

thanks for the story and pics... sounds like you have a honest shop.

 

[Carnoobie]

Just got back. Got bad news. Checked the shields and all were surprisingly tight.

Used stethescope and the sound was most heard when right at the back of the timing belt cover with the sound echoing through. So looks like i have no choice right now but to pay mech to take a look inside the timing belt and check the tensioner.

He said if tensioner is still good and thats not the cause then we wont replace it. Scheduled for tommorow afternoon.

 

[ltslimjim]

My thoughts are water pump related if not the tensioner. Removing the top timing cover + valve cover while running should reveal if it's anything related to that area.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Just got back. Got bad news. Checked the shields and all were surprisingly tight.

Used stethescope and the sound was most heard when right at the back of the timing belt cover with the sound echoing through.

Do you have A/C? If so, remove that accessory-drive belt and see if the noise goes away. Sometimes the A/C idler makes noise.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Just got back. Got bad news. Checked the shields and all were surprisingly tight.

Used stethescope and the sound was most heard when right at the back of the timing belt cover with the sound echoing through.

Do you have A/C? If so, remove that accessory-drive belt and see if the noise goes away. Sometimes the A/C idler makes noise.



Ironically, I believe the idler pulley on my A/C compressor is making noise too...

 

[Carnoobie]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
My thoughts are water pump related if not the tensioner. Removing the top timing cover + valve cover while running should reveal if it's anything related to that area.


Thats what the first mech said too. To remove the timing cover, you need to remove a helluva lot of stuff just to get to it. Power steering pump, valve cover, what else?

 

[Carnoobie]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Just got back. Got bad news. Checked the shields and all were surprisingly tight.

Used stethescope and the sound was most heard when right at the back of the timing belt cover with the sound echoing through.

Do you have A/C? If so, remove that accessory-drive belt and see if the noise goes away. Sometimes the A/C idler makes noise.



Will mention that to the mech tommorow. Yes I have A/C. First mech said its not the AC idler cause it would be a different sound more like a hiss or sqeual but ill mention to it again tomrw.

Just trying to decide which of the 2 mechs to take it to tommorow. Theyre both free tommorow.

Both quoted me 3-3.5hrs.

1) $200. 30min drive away, he knows hondas well.
2) $150. 15min drive away, but he said he doesnt know hondas too well, but doesnt mean he cant do the job. He said hes done a timing belt on a honda CRV before. Hes a Ford cert. mech.

Asked the ford mech a couple questions to see what kind of answers he'd give. 1) Does the valve cover have to come off to do this job? He said no whereas the first mech said yes.