Here I go again.New ford truck burning 5w20 oil.

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: nickaluch
They changed the oil with 5w20 and sisd keep an eye on it.If it keeps using oil the next chnage there going to bump it up to 5w30.I was kinda shocked they would admit to go up a grade since ford swears by 5/20.


You can't rely on US dealers to have the knowledge that Ford have. If they don't have definitive guidance on what to do, then they should talk to Ford to get it.

Did they tell you why they even changed the oil?

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: nickaluch
I was kinda shocked they would admit to go up a grade since ford swears by 5/20.


Me too, especially with all the testing they claim to have done with it.


Yes take it out of context. The dealer is obviously doing a thorough diagnosis and consulting with Ford when he suggested this course of action after the really considered action of swapping out factory fill 5w20 with bulk 5w20

 

[bullwinkle]

Not that it's a good comparison-but my '12 van with the 4.6, loaded to the gills to near the GVWR at 8K, towing is often OVER the GCWR, the dog snot beaten out of it every day (due to numerous freeway merges & hills, no low end torque whatsoever), has burned ZERO oil to this point in 22K. Now, the antifreeze-that's a different story... (VISIBLE leakage from both head gaskets!). Glad to see someone else has the Blue Oval new truck experience I seem to have! Document EVERYTHING, be prepared to fight for a new engine-and that V10 was designed to run on 5W20, I wouldn't put anything else in it, NO WAY.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
That's the problem with regulation in the US. It's a compromise so there's always a problem with it. In places like Germany where it is not seen as a dirty word, the regulation is smarter and benefits consumers and industry alike.


There are pro's and con's to German regulations, as you can't wash your own car outside of a car wash and changing engine oil yourself is near impossible, unless you pay a garage almost as much to take the used oil off your hands as they charge to change it in the first place.
Most garages can't write anything on an OCI sticker except the manufacturers recommended OCI. I change my oil twice as often as the recommended max and have to fill in the 10K number myself as only an inspector is allowed to fill in a non standard number.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: 3311
Bump up to the 5w30 and see if that works. Keep receipts and document that the dealer told you to use this viscosity.


Not too sure about that as the engine is still in bedding in phase, the thing I can't understand is why the factory fill was dumped early unless Ford don't use a special break in factory fill, as some engines don't need it.
Thin oil is not an issue until the engine ages and the oil consumption starts to pick up after a few years, BUT 5/20 dinoblends are not as good as full synthetic 0/20's if you are pushing the engine hard and tend to shear down to a lower viscosity.
It would be interesting to know what the main block design team thought the ideal engine life oil grade should be, because if it was a 30 and not a 20 I can guarantee the CAFE bean counters wrote all the documentation and the accountants said 5 and not 0/20.

 

[nickaluch]

Just playing this whole thing out.I,m hoping once the motor breaks in the oil usage goes down.My 2003 e350 cutaway used oil also on 5w20.started using 5w30 full syn and the oil usage went down,but didnt stop.The new truck does have 4.56 gears and a new style tranny ,the truck does hold the gear and rpm,s hang onto about 3500 to 4000 rpms.the truck has a reading 17ft box,so when loaded,which is every day,she is carrying some major weight.I do believe in the 20 wieghts oil, just not in this kinda application.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: nickaluch
I was kinda shocked they would admit to go up a grade since ford swears by 5/20.


Me too, especially with all the testing they claim to have done with it.


Yes take it out of context. The dealer is obviously doing a thorough diagnosis and consulting with Ford when he suggested this course of action after the really considered action of swapping out factory fill 5w20 with bulk 5w20


They also suggested the possibility of 5W30, totally going against what the OM states, what Ford recommends, and CAFE. Come to think of it, it just might work. Mark how much difference do you think there is between the factory fill 5W20 and bulk 5W20?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Unless you're burning oil at a rate of about a qt/500 miles I doubt they'll do anything. Funny how the EPA is so strict with emissions levels, yet burning a qt of oil in 1,000 miles or less is considered by car makers to be OK, and nothing is done about it.

Ha. I hear ya.
First they use low tension rings on the pistons for less drag and better fuel efficiency. Then the rings allow oil to blowby fouling cats. So instead of fixing the real issue,the rings,they lower the allowable zddp in oil so as it burns it fouls the cats slower,but the lowered zddp levels may shorten engine life.
It just baffles me.

 

[229]

Originally Posted By: nickaluch
My last ford e350 with the v8,they said a quart every 1500 miles is normal.


Same with this engine also. It has low tension oil rings.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Unless you're burning oil at a rate of about a qt/500 miles I doubt they'll do anything. Funny how the EPA is so strict with emissions levels, yet burning a qt of oil in 1,000 miles or less is considered by car makers to be OK, and nothing is done about it.

Ha. I hear ya.
First they use low tension rings on the pistons for less drag and better fuel efficiency. Then the rings allow oil to blowby fouling cats. So instead of fixing the real issue,the rings,they lower the allowable zddp in oil so as it burns it fouls the cats slower,but the lowered zddp levels may shorten engine life.
It just baffles me.


LOL Exactly. All this to get 1/20th of a mile extra from a tank of gas. I can't say it's all the automakers fault though.

 

[Clevy]

In the 80s I had a 300k 305 that didn't burn a drop of oil,ended up eating the cam but not the point,it never used a drop of oil. Now,30 years later a quart every 1000 miles is normal and no big deal. Must be some kind of engineered upper cylinder lubrication method or something.
It just proves to me that break in is more important than ever before and loading the engine on acceleration and decel is the most important part of a proper break in,so the low tension rings will properly seat.
Since obviously the manufacturer recommended soft break in can lead to oil consumption that we all know is absurd to be considered normal,perhaps the books need to be adjusted and 3/4 throttle and 20 miles of second gear acceleration and deceleration needs to be written in.
Just my opinion,I'm a carpenter,not a mechanic and these are just observations.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: nickaluch
Just playing this whole thing out.I,m hoping once the motor breaks in the oil usage goes down.My 2003 e350 cutaway used oil also on 5w20.started using 5w30 full syn and the oil usage went down,but didnt stop.The new truck does have 4.56 gears and a new style tranny ,the truck does hold the gear and rpm,s hang onto about 3500 to 4000 rpms.the truck has a reading 17ft box,so when loaded,which is every day,she is carrying some major weight.I do believe in the 20 wieghts oil, just not in this kinda application.


OK, so if you are running those kind of revs a lot that will push up the oil consumption. If you double the average RPM you roughly four times the oil consumption.
You are correct about about the thin oil game, as the averaged out UOA results for several types of VW diesels show that the boy racers got the biggest reduction in wear metals when switching from 5/30 to 40. Not much difference with the other owners, although the oil consumption fell by about a third on 5/40.

 

[FoxS]

OP - what does your manual say about break in period, max load and oil choice for your usage?

Also I suggest you call Ford directly, tell them that your dealer swapped the oil out early and that they are suggesting 5w30 if it happens again. Tell them that you want to know what their recommendation would be as well as their diagnostic procedure so you are prepared when you next visit the dealer.

 

[JOD]

This same engine is rated for much higher loads in the motorhome configuration, more than twice what yours is rated. The oil viscosity specified is plenty adequate, and consumption on the factory fill really isn't that unusual. One of the motorhome guys said it best: folks need to worry more about the viscosity in operation and less about the viscosity when you pour the oil out of the bottle. The large oil cooler heat exchanger and 30 qts of coolant keep the oil temperatures low, even under heavy use.

I do find it funny that when random guys at the dealer make a recommendation regarding lubrication it's normally panned by everyone, until it's something with which they agree...then, the guys working at the dealer know more than the manufacturers.

 

[Norm Olt]

Document everything. Send them e-mails quoting your conversations and their suggestions & KEEP COPIES! An E450 (van cab & chassis, right?, right) with a V10 is SUPPOSED TO BE A WORK TRUCK and driven daily with heavy loads: otherwise you would have purchased a couple $20K Transit vans, right?

Get it all in writing, especially see if you can get them to enter their suggestions as notes on the service documents ("oil changed with XW-20 or XW-30 oil as per Dealers recommendation", "oil consumption of X quarts per X miles deemed typical per Dealership", etc.

Good paperwork & Good Luck!

 

[SAJEFFC]

I am willing to bet it was low from the factory. I work at a Ford dealer and they DO come low from time to time. I had an E450 30 ft motorhome a few yrs ago with the V10 and 4:56 gears. It weighed 13,000 lbs wet and I pulled a 18ft 3500lb race car trailer with it. It spent a lot of time at 3500-4000 rpms and NEVER burned a drop of Mobil 1 5W20. It is a tough torquey truck motor and yours will be fine. I've owned literally 30 new Fords over the years and never had one burn any oil at all. I'd just keep an eye on it and I'll bet it breaks in and doesn't use any more oil. Good luck!!

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: JOD
This same engine is rated for much higher loads in the motorhome configuration, more than twice what yours is rated. The oil viscosity specified is plenty adequate, and consumption on the factory fill really isn't that unusual. One of the motorhome guys said it best: folks need to worry more about the viscosity in operation and less about the viscosity when you pour the oil out of the bottle. The large oil cooler heat exchanger and 30 qts of coolant keep the oil temperatures low, even under heavy use.

I do find it funny that when random guys at the dealer make a recommendation regarding lubrication it's normally panned by everyone, until it's something with which they agree...then, the guys working at the dealer know more than the manufacturers.

And the rapid agreement by a few is so blatantly biased, it's obvious. Those same folks are the ones who shout from the rooftops that others should provide facts and make comments such as "claimed testing" when they provide no facts themselves just end their posts with "JMO"

Well JOD and others have chimed in with some facts that are helpful to the discussion and those folks will go away and never correct their mis statements until they find another post they can leap into and spread their gut based biases.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: SAJEFFC


I had an E450 30 ft motorhome a few yrs ago with the V10 and 4:56 gears. It weighed 13,000 lbs wet and I pulled a 18ft 3500lb race car trailer with it.


Wow what kind of fuel economy did you get with it?

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: SAJEFFC
I am willing to bet it was low from the factory. I work at a Ford dealer and they DO come low from time to time. I had an E450 30 ft motorhome a few yrs ago with the V10 and 4:56 gears. It weighed 13,000 lbs wet and I pulled a 18ft 3500lb race car trailer with it. It spent a lot of time at 3500-4000 rpms and NEVER burned a drop of Mobil 1 5W20. It is a tough torquey truck motor and yours will be fine. I've owned literally 30 new Fords over the years and never had one burn any oil at all. I'd just keep an eye on it and I'll bet it breaks in and doesn't use any more oil. Good luck!!


You do get bad new engines on odd occasions and the number of them has increased in recent years as companies back spec bearings et al to save money. The QA for some of the parts suppliers is not always good and they then finish up with a serious failure under warranty.
I've been shocked to hear what is happening with back specing to save money, as although the engine or box might look the same outside, the inside can change for the worse.

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: nickaluch
Just playing this whole thing out.I,m hoping once the motor breaks in the oil usage goes down.My 2003 e350 cutaway used oil also on 5w20.started using 5w30 full syn and the oil usage went down,but didnt stop.The new truck does have 4.56 gears and a new style tranny ,the truck does hold the gear and rpm,s hang onto about 3500 to 4000 rpms.the truck has a reading 17ft box,so when loaded,which is every day,she is carrying some major weight.I do believe in the 20 wieghts oil, just not in this kinda application.


Given the gearing and RPM's that engine is running daily i don't see any issue with it vaporizing/burning of a qt every 1500 miles. that is the nature of running a big gas engine hard constantly. It will not matter if you use 5w20 or 5w30 in and application like this were the engine is cranked up to 4k rpms nearly constantly and under load, the engine is going to consume some oil. Use a good synthetic or motorcraft syn-blend because of the extreme conditions it runs under and stick with the 5w20 as per the engines spec. just keep a couple quarts in the truck to top off with periodically.

In my opinion this isn't a case of the v10 is junk or ford is at fault, rather a pure fact that this engine is being ran hard all the time. if it was a vortec or a hemi it would use oil too under these conditions, these are simply brutal conditions for a N/A gas engine. Keep oil in it and it will stay happy.