GT's Running Volvo thread. The 00 XC

[Vikas]

Are you paying to Sam in real money for his professional services? If so, you are being taken for a ride.

Did you read and understood what BladeCutter wrote? See, this is what Sam is supposed to be doing because he is charging you money to fix your car. If Sam is not doing that or worse, does not even understand the steps as outlined by BladeCutter, you need to take it somewhere else.

I am going to be blunt and tell you point blank that you do NOT have the necessary skills and/or tools and/or aptitude to follow BladeCutter's flow chart. You need to find the correct shop by researching the Volvo specific forums.

So far you have refused to do *any* of the above steps.

 

[GearheadTool]

The *very latest* in this, is:

1. The car started. It seemed to have an odd correlation in starting, and clearing codes. I had the CTEK out there, turning it over/over/over/over.. I don't know?

2. I got it back down to Sam's, and he agrees that Coolant Temperate Sensor (he even said, "There was a code for that!," first he said "Is this the one that was here after Thanksgiving and I came out and it started like it was ok?") -- It is down there, with the key.. and sensor will be changed.

That is the latest, since Vikas is right.. I am "winging it!"

Also, in category of "Yes, do the thermostat and CTS/TCS and FLUSH COOLANT" is:

1. Took awhile to warm up in mornings..
2. Temp gauge DID fluxuate. (Sticky thermostat was suspected.)
3. P0118 from OBDII scanner.

I also got the light off, so.. maybe if the CTS is changed, it will STAY off!

 

[GearheadTool]

Taken about an hour ago:

Plan of action:

1. Replace Coolant Temperature Sensor.
2. I also indicated that I would like a Thermostat change, and coolant flush.
3. MAYBE inquire about T-belt job...
4. Go from there.

 

[sleddriver]

Quote:
That is the latest, since Vikas is right.. I am "winging it!"

That's the problem kid. What you're doing is Prescribing before you Diagnose. You've got it backwards. Further, it's foolish to do so as you don't have the money to throw at it. Worse still, you're blind to the errors of your own ways.

Diagnose FIRST, THEN Prescribe!

 

[Vikas]

You still do not get it :-( Get the car out of that hack of a shop.

It is highly unlikely that a bad coolant temperature sensor would cause car NOT to start. Especially because the computer has already determined that the coolant temperature sensor is bad. Given that, a typical ECM engineer will program it in a such a way as to substitute a sane value of temperature in the engine management algorithm. This will make the engine at least run albeit not the most optimally.

I do not think you are an engineer but take it from others who know this lot more than I do. Changing CTS will NOT fix your symptoms. Neither will thermostat change or coolant flush. All it will do is make Sam happy. Do you have crush on him?

One of the easiest to troubleshoot a car problem is where the car refuses to start. Follow BladeCutter's flow chart and even a run of the mill mechanic can figure it out. Since Sam has no clue, it should tell you enough about his competence.

 

[GearheadTool]

Ok. Show of hands, on two questions:

1. How many believe that changing the CTS (maybe with and maybe without new Thermostat and coolant flush/change) WILL stop the "intermittent won't start, mostly when hot" issue?

2. How many think that I should cut a deal with Sam to do the Timing Belt NOW, when it is in there? (since this also encompasses Thermostat, and coolant flush/change) and water pump, etc?

Thank you.

BTW: Had NO CODES when I drove it in. Here is proof.

And this is how the car is, sitting at Sam's.

*Also: Quick note.. (to Vikas, etc) I should point out, that I spoke with the "assistant" this morning. Seems to me to be somewhat younger, etc etc. Doesn't seem too knowledgeable. Now.. are Sam and the other guys EQUALLY as "not knowledgeable?" Well... I tested them, and they told me my ABS unit "could be reprogrammed." I did a check.. and, on a 2000, that is NOT the case! So... I have doubts, but I feel like Sam is the only reputable shop in town? He has 5 STAR REVIEWS!! Check it out: http://www.yelp.com/biz/sams-auto-weymouth http://www.insiderpages.com/b/3715488774/sams-auto-weymouth

?

Not trying to be deliberately obtuse here, just that I keep on hearing two different things!

*one of the reviews on that second link: "There is no one on this planet besides Sam that will work on my vehicles so long as I can help it. Sam is the most reasonable and honest mechanic and gentleman I have met. He stands behind his work and really takes it personal if something doesn't go right. No one compares to Sam."

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Ok. Show of hands, on two questions:

1. How many believe that changing the CTS (maybe with and maybe without new Thermostat and coolant flush/change) WILL stop the "intermittent won't start, mostly when hot" issue?



I have a good feeling about it!

 

[GearheadTool]

Also.. What is the general shop labor rate quote for a Timing Belt job? There is still time! It could still MAYBE happen! ...........

 

[DuckRyder]

Has any one actually performed the diagnosis on the trouble code? Checked the CTS and wiring?

 

[joaks]

You can check automd for labor pricing

 

[JOD]

Does this guy work on a fair number of Volvos? I mean, it's not like they're "special cars" or impossible to work on or anything, but here's a real-world example of what can happen: friend bought a V70, "new timing belt and cam seals just installed"! He had a receipt from the place that did it. He bought the car in Utah and drove it back here.

It was leaking like a sieve because the cam seals were installed incorrectly. So, I help he re-do them, and find out the tensioner is leaking and the water pump is crunchy when turned by hand, the pulleys weren't changed... Needless to say, we (meaning me) end up redoing the entire thing. I even had to put on a new belt because whoever installed the last one mutilated it in the process...somehow...

Sam may be a great guy, but if doesn't have the right tool to install the cam seals (or isn't good at fabbing his own tools), you could be in for trouble.

Also, I wouldn't do this until you have the cash to do it all; tensioner, water pump, cam seals (if they're weeping), pulleys and the belt. Doing it half way really won't help, because it's normally not the belt that actually fails.

So, maybe get a quote for the whole thing, and ask him if he's done the job on this car before?

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
1. How many believe that changing the CTS (maybe with and maybe without new Thermostat and coolant flush/change) WILL stop the "intermittent won't start, mostly when hot" issue?


Yes, replace the Coolant temp sensor.
That can contribute the the issue you are facing, depending on how the sensor failed. It may not be the sole cause, but it can contribute.

BC.

 

[GearheadTool]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Does this guy work on a fair number of Volvos? I mean, it's not like they're "special cars" or impossible to work on or anything, but here's a real-world example of what can happen: friend bought a V70, "new timing belt and cam seals just installed"! He had a receipt from the place that did it. He bought the car in Utah and drove it back here.

It was leaking like a sieve because the cam seals were installed incorrectly. So, I help he re-do them, and find out the tensioner is leaking and the water pump is crunchy when turned by hand, the pulleys weren't changed... Needless to say, we (meaning me) end up redoing the entire thing. I even had to put on a new belt because whoever installed the last one mutilated it in the process...somehow...

Sam may be a great guy, but if doesn't have the right tool to install the cam seals (or isn't good at fabbing his own tools), you could be in for trouble.

Also, I wouldn't do this until you have the cash to do it all; tensioner, water pump, cam seals (if they're weeping), pulleys and the belt. Doing it half way really won't help, because it's normally not the belt that actually fails.

So, maybe get a quote for the whole thing, and ask him if he's done the job on this car before?


... Hmmm.

Alright! This is informative.

A few things:

Quote:
Does this guy work on a fair number of Volvos?


Kinda sorta. Volvos are somewhat popular here in Greater Boston (Weymouth, Quincy, Braintree, etc.)

He works on another Volvo. It is a Brown 740, likely a Turbo. Here are they, side by side. Taken at noon-ish

Quote:

It was leaking like a sieve because the cam seals were installed incorrectly


Yes, my Uncle always used to say that could happen. And he is a retired Master Mechanic for 30+ years.

Quote:
tensioner, water pump, cam seals (if they're weeping), pulleys and the belt


Honestly the car runs really, really well. I wonder what could mess up during a T-belt job.. I know that may sound weird, but I know you do the water pump. The tensioners, yes you are not supposed to re-use them. But why touch the engine? This one is really strong and solid, just has old as [censored] coolant (is brown.)

 

[GearheadTool]

By the way.. I DO have the videos of it cranking this morning, etc. I was supposed to post them, so I likely will.. Photobucket videos...

Documented, and everything.

Doing that now...

Video 1. (Must click to view, I do not know how to embed Photobucket video) http://s1051.photobucket.com/albums/s434...zps1b8f1ddb.mp4

Video 2. (Same) http://s1051.photobucket.com/albums/s434...zpscd8615b8.mp4

 

[eljefino]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 740/940 is normally aspirated; I have a turbo with intercooler and there's a lot more air intake stuff that'd be visible.

Hey, here's a lark: you could have a bad engine ground. When you plug in the scan tool it likely shorts OBDII pins 4 & 5 which improves the engine-to-chassis ground. This brings the temp sender and other sensors closer to reality.

 

[bigjl]

Why not get your uncle to fix the problems with the car?

If he is a retired Master Mechanic then surely he should have been on team from the start.



@JOD, it is not that Volvos are difficult to work on mechanically, they are a car with N engine after all.

The difficulty comes when the electrical systems start to give trouble.

This regularly leads to mechanically sound cars being scrapped and broken for parts in the UK all the time.

It make no economic sense to trouble shoot a multitude of electrical problems on a car that is not worth much and never will be.

I am also a little concerned that GHT thinks that the old school Volvo parked beside his is even remotely comparative in technological terms.

That 740 Turbo is old school, and well known in the UK to take abuse and neglect in its stride.

Any mechanic can trouble shoot one of those.


Everybody says I am on a big downer and know nothing about the US used market.

Mmm.

There are a lot of things to go wrong with this car and it really looks like being a constant fix and break, fix and break scenario.

I do hope the next issue isn't a turbo starved of oil due to the OP trying to sort out his alledged sludge problem, I say that as he hasn't had the cam cover off to confirm but it does seem a reasonable suspicion.

Funnily enough looking at GHT's photo above.

I personally think he would have been better off with something like the 740/760/940/960 but there you go.

Much less to go wrong that requires expert diagnosis skills, rather than the efforts of a do it all garage though well meaning is quite possibly as out of his depth here as GHT.

But then again perhaps being from the UK i don't appreciate that the XC70 is a bit "unusual" and thought of as a car for artists to cruise around in.

I would rather have an ex Police Crown Vic in LAPD black and white and make like a Blues Brother.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: bigjl

I personally think he would have been better off with something like the 740/760/940/960 but there you go.


He was contemplating buying my 1993 940!

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: bigjl

I personally think he would have been better off with something like the 740/760/940/960 but there you go.


Bingo!

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: bigjl

I personally think he would have been better off with something like the 740/760/940/960 but there you go.


He was contemplating buying my 1993 940!



Tried the link but the advert has expired I think.

You are absolutely right he would have been better off with a car like that.

Bit of Swedish cool and plenty of room for his friend the singer.

A good XC70 is a much nicer car than the old school 740/760/940/960 to drive I suspect.

But I don't think GHT's XC will drive better than a decent 760/960 etc.

They were the last of the line of the unbreakable Volvos IMHO.

And GHT would have had a $1000 in his pocket.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: bigjl

I personally think he would have been better off with something like the 740/760/940/960 but there you go.


He was contemplating buying my 1993 940!



Tried the link but the advert has expired I think.

You are absolutely right he would have been better off with a car like that.

Yeah I pulled the ad after it sold. $750, 271,000 miles. New timing belt and water pump, no rust underneath. Dead AC. Speedometer came and went, but it wasn't the ABS at fault, rather a flaky gauge head. Well documented on the volvo sites. Leaked gas when filled all the way. Dead gas gauge. It would be a good car for a "Top Gear" African adventure except it wouldn't break down in humorous fashion over and over.

Still ran and drove great without warning lights. I did have to resolder the fuel pump relay, just pried it apart and touched up some hairline cracks. Common issue, cheap fix, well documented online.

Anyway, sorry to get