FWD vs AWD. Is it worth it?

[WillsYoda]

Consumer Reports recently put up two very informative videos on the subject of winter tires and AWD vs FWD. The upshot is the winter tires on a FWD car are much better (much safer, sure footed, etc.) in winter than regular tires on an AWD car like a Subaru.

3 minute primer...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXjzYbpt9Ow

21 minute video of their three car experts discussing it in more detail...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOQ_uCUWOs4

 

[Eddie]

My Subaru with a true full time AWD was great here in wet Florida. 2WD vehicles sit spinning tires at a go light as I drove off. The difference was even more pronounced when wet dirt or sand on the roads. Sold my Suby with 125,000+ miles and never a major problem with anything. Ed

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus

3. Acceleration goes down from same as 2. above.


Not necessarily. I can nail the throttle in an AWD vehicle and it will hook up and go. Do that in FWD or some RWD and you could sit there and spin. I've even done it in the Taurus in the rain. Drop the hammer at a stoplight and it just goes. Do that with a non AWD vehicle and you'll sit there spinning.


Good point if you're traction limited, then AWD will get you going. A 2wd these days won't spin, it will apply traction/stability control heavily if there is more power than rubber. Most of us have more rubber than power though.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Remember, AWD doesn't prevent accidents.
Your reasoning almost impeccable, but I can 'pecc' at one part of it: AWD lays down torque on the pavement more gingerly on ice/snow, delaying or preventing the onset wheelspin, especially important to avoid the start of skidding while applying power in corners on slick roads.

Well yeah. The question is, how often is that going to prevent an accident, especially with ESC as you said?

I made my point in a nuance-free way, but I think you know what I meant.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus

Subaru's fast acting torque vectoring AWD is very effective at speed. Its for real. Take a look at the physics behind the old Audi Quattro rally race domination in the early 80's for the difference dynamically.


Right but don't they all do it now? I mean in 30 years Haldex and everyone else could have copied it... That being said, I've never been let down by my "lowly" Ford system, or the pickup-style systems. Or even a Mustang with snows and 200lbs in the trunk (my 1st car).

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Trav
That's a fact. I went right around a Ford F150 4x4 uphill with a Subaru in 8" of snow. Only the Quattro is in the same league.


+1 AWD is quite variable what it means.

That all being said its situation specifically steeper hills or even mud/slop/ice underneath/deep snow.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Something I realized recently...

Most people have FWD or AWD cars, which they think are better in snow, and they still dread the snow.

My friends and I have RWD cars (some of them pretty tail-happy), and the first thing we want to do when it snows is get out and drive.

Go figure.


I love driving in the heavy snowstorms! Last snow storm my Focus passed an AWD GRAND CHEROKEE that couldn't get up a hill - the Grand Cherokee also had a running start that I did not!

I just put a front automatic locker in my Jeep. I want to see how bad it is going to be in the snow

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Is Subaru really better or do they spec better winter type tires for their vehicles with a good AWD system? There's no "magic" other than good ground clearance and a locking differential. A pickup with a locking rear and good tires would be just as good.

One thing the Subaru propaganda videos never do is same tires on the different vehicles. Wonder why that is?

I've driven them all - RWD, FWD, and AWD. My favorite would be AWD but RWD with good snows worked really well too. Least favorite was FWD.


Subaru uses full time AWD while competitors tended to use part time AWD that in the past was slower acting but now becoming better and better. Also Subaru AWD is dead simple in certain vehicles including my wife's Legacy GT which has absolutely no electronics or traction control just a 45/55 split to a read LSD. It works amazingly well with mechanical bliss.

Subaru basically has 30+ years in AWD arena improving on the original full-time AWD design. Its beyond reliable.

That all being said I have no idea who has the best in the last 10 years. They all have drastically improved.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Well yeah. The question is, how often is that going to prevent an accident, especially with ESC as you said? I made my point in a nuance-free way, but I think you know what I meant.

Hard to say the "value" of it. We all see cars/suvs going fast on ice/snow and taking corners out in traffic, while applying power, with AWD, I think, saving some of them from skidding as they apply power on an on-ramp or other turns. --- What percentage? Don't know. I do agree ESC does most of the saving.

 

[hattaresguy]

AWD is awesome in the white stuff, if you know how to drive in the snow and have the right tires on the vehicle it will simply run circles around everyone else.

These days their is hardly any penalty to pay for having it, heck its pretty much standard on high end cars.


I won't buy another car without AWD or a truck without 4wd. I'm done struggling, been their done that, now I can afford not to!

The best thing about AWD is you can do stuff that with a RWD or FWD vehicle would get you stuck, or cause issues. IE simply stop on a steep slippery hill...than go right on up! You no longer have to drive and always think about keeping momentum going to avoid getting stuck. Snow is now just pleasant scenery.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Something I realized recently...

Most people have FWD or AWD cars, which they think are better in snow, and they still dread the snow.

My friends and I have RWD cars (some of them pretty tail-happy), and the first thing we want to do when it snows is get out and drive.

Go figure.



Seems to correlate with age or ability. I remember driving though awful weather with my mom in rear wheel drive GM cars with snow tires. During an ice storm she spun out backwards down a hill by their house, did a couple 360's, Then she made a 2nd attempt up the hill and had me get out of the car (a big 2 door Buick Electra) while the tires were spinning, just before it lost momentum and went sliding back down the hill. Pre-cell phones, she wanted me to run to our house and get my dad. I was 7 or 8.

Now my mom is weak like Ukraine and started getting snow paranoid around age 50 with her 4x4 Blazer. She is in a CR-V AWD now and it sees less snow than my Cadillac.

I go out in the middle of the night in the snow before the roads are plowed, or during the day, and rip it up. I usually take the Accord with studded snow tires. Almost really pinched myself in this last snow storm when I ran into a mile of unplowed road, I hit it going about 35-40 and could not stop or I would get stuck. I had to power through it, seemed like it never was going to end. Ripped my lower splash guard in half. Exhilarating.

 

[simple_gifts]

Two people who recently bought AWD vehicles (patriot and A4) didn't show for work today. There is money well spent lol. j/k.

The !echo! with CS5s ran like a champ.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Some people can barely drive on dry pavement, I applaud anyone who knows themselves well enough to admit they should stay home.

 

[dblshock]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Things bad about AWD:
1. Cost
2. MPG goes down from added drivetrain friction
3. Acceleration goes down from same as 2. above.
4. One more thing to go wrong.
5. One more thing making noise.
6. Added mass we don't want.



I've owned 5 from 3 different nameplates, they all became sloppy over time.

 

[spk2000]

I was on the rough beaches at outer banks, NC this summer. They did not recommend any AWD on the beaches. My Montero did awesome but the tires were very helpful being a mud terrain. The Audi's and Subaru's on the beach did great too. I saw several Escapes, Explorers, CRV's Rav4 all get stuck in some of the easier stuff for what that is worth. Surprisingly I found the loose sand to be more difficult than snow to drive in.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: powayroger


Thinking about getting rid of my truck and civic and getting a SUV (See other posts about this). AWD is an option. Is it something that should be considered and is it worth it or should I just stick with FWD?

Proper winter tires are more important than awd, IMO.

I have rwd with winter tires, and i cant say that i miss awd much.


I did a winter driving course several years ago and the only car that spun out and repeatedly had trouble was a RWD Porsche with winter tires. He had to take it easy, while the other Subaru WRX and me, in my STI, were taking on the snowy hill there while in boost, as well as very good emergency handling. We all rode in each other's cars to get a feel for it, and the difference was pretty amazing.

The only car that couldn't make it up the hill the first few times, even with instructor driving, was a FWD Mazda 3 with AS tires. We were all kind of flabbergasted when we found out that that was the reason the car had to back down and gain more momentum.

The best performing cars, were my STI with LSD's and nearly new Blizzaks (kind of an unfair advantage) and an older Civic that seemed to power through everything, just as well as us AWD, winter tire-shod vehicles.

With that said, in the end, we were all AWS (all-wheel stop) and, while the heavier SUVs went better than the FWD cars, they stopped and turned way more poorly than the smaller, lighter, lower-CG vehicles.

 

[Doog]

After living in NE Ohio for the past 46 Winters....I am tired of driving in snow and want to move to Florida soon

I finally got rid of my AWD and 4WD vehicles and have 2WD because even up here there are only about 5-8 days a year that are too difficult to drive in. Then you just have to just wait a few hours for the plow.

 

[Donald]

What works best in snow is a Jeep with M&S tires in part time 4 wheel drive.

There is not much comparison, except maybe my Snowcat with its 7' tracks.

 

[Danno]

Have a FWD Sonata with 4 snows. Last 2 winters have been brutal, was on a trip from h.e.l.l. where only the main highway was plowed, couldn't exit as the exits hadn't been cleared and I would have gotten very stuck in the more than 12" of snow.
Upgrading to an AWD with snows this year. Kia Sorento or Santa Fe.
Had a 2002 V6 Escape with B/S DMV-1s. With front and rear diffs locked, that thing was a rocket ship in the snow.

 

[Rolla07]

Nice but not necessary for you. I get by with fwd and snow tires. If you get fwd..and worry bout snow traction..get studded nokian winters..thats all. Choose the car you like best and if awd is an option price it and get it if it fits in ur budget.