Focus Ecoboost 1.0L I-3

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
JHZR2,
The Semis around here will chirp the drive tires when they do clutch drops. .


that's pure bull.
maybe without a trailer, and then there's no weight over the drive axles.

 

[E365]

I have 175 miles on my 2015 Focus 1.0 hatch that I got yesterday and I have a few initial thoughts.


The engine is very smooth and quiet. It's an interesting car to drive with a manual transmission because the engine has such low overall friction. #1, engine braking is almost non-existent. You need to drop about 3 gears to feel the engine braking. #2, shift timing takes some getting used to because it takes the engine RPMs a long time to drop to match the next higher gear. One would assume it's from a heavy flywheel but I read somewhere a Ford engineer said it's mostly due to the low engine friction.

Initial acceleration from a dead stop is pretty slow because of the very short first gear and how long it takes for the RPMs to drop the 1500 RPM or so to match 2nd gear. Once into 2nd it pulls just fine. Max torque at 1,400 RPM is really noticeable.

As for merging.... I have a long, downhill onramp near me an I have to come off the throttle to keep it under 70 MPH. And that's keeping it under 4000 RPM and a lighter throttle for break in. Pushing it, I'm sure I could hit 100 MPH. Stopped at a meter or a short uphill will probably be a different story. The car tops out over 130 MPH, so it's not exactly underpower.

The cluster screen gives upshot guidance. It tells you when you should up shift for efficiency as well as what gear is suggested. It's interesting that a steady, level cruise above about 37 MPH asks for 6th gear!

I have a Fuelly account set up for it.

Overall I like the car a lot. The updated 2015 interior is nice, IMO. Handling is very good and the ride is slightly on the firm side, which I like.

 

[jimbrewer]

I'm seeing the 8 yr 125k $100 deductible esp warranty for $845 at floodford. I'd go for the "Extra care". Warranty. Covers motor mounts.

 

[supton]

Lots of DBW engines are slow to unwind/unrev. Slamming the throttle blade shut leads to higher emissions. I find I have to let off the throttle, then I can go for clutch--cannot do both at the same time.

 

[SteveSRT8]

No offense, OP, but the "lack of friction" you describe is throttle programming, NOT superior engine design. Your car, like many these days, holds the throttle open a bit whenever you are underway, even if the pedal is lifted.

But it sounds like a fantastic candidate for an aftermarket programmer. Most cars respond well to them and become much more fun to drive. Some even increase their fuel economy...

 

[E365]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No offense, OP, but the "lack of friction" you describe is throttle programming, NOT superior engine design. Your car, like many these days, holds the throttle open a bit whenever you are underway, even if the pedal is lifted.

But it sounds like a fantastic candidate for an aftermarket programmer. Most cars respond well to them and become much more fun to drive. Some even increase their fuel economy...


If you're talking to me... I trust the Ford engineers and the SAE over those who elude to me being an idiot.

http://articles.sae.org/10714/

Why wouldn't a 1 liter engine have less friction losses than a much bigger engine with more cylinders?

 

[E365]

Deleted

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: E365
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No offense, OP, but the "lack of friction" you describe is throttle programming, NOT superior engine design. Your car, like many these days, holds the throttle open a bit whenever you are underway, even if the pedal is lifted.

But it sounds like a fantastic candidate for an aftermarket programmer. Most cars respond well to them and become much more fun to drive. Some even increase their fuel economy...


If you're talking to me... I trust the Ford engineers and the SAE over those who elude to me being an idiot.

http://articles.sae.org/10714/

Why wouldn't a 1 liter engine have less friction losses than a much bigger engine with more cylinders?




The first car that I drove with this quirk was a late 80's Escort.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: E365
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No offense, OP, but the "lack of friction" you describe is throttle programming, NOT superior engine design. Your car, like many these days, holds the throttle open a bit whenever you are underway, even if the pedal is lifted.

But it sounds like a fantastic candidate for an aftermarket programmer. Most cars respond well to them and become much more fun to drive. Some even increase their fuel economy...


If you're talking to me... I trust the Ford engineers and the SAE over those who elude to me being an idiot.

http://articles.sae.org/10714/

Why wouldn't a 1 liter engine have less friction losses than a much bigger engine with more cylinders?


Ahem, the word you were looking for wasn't "elude". Perhaps it was "allude"?

But regardless of how your feelings got hurt, no one was arguing your assertion. Simply pointing out that your foot no longer controls that throttle, the computer does! And what you describe is a common issue on many modern cars. You did what anyone can do, missed the real reason entirely and got caught up in the hype.

Grow some skin, man...

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: supton

The first car that I drove with this quirk was a late 80's Escort.


Gosh, I remember this clear back in the 80's with one of my parent's cars. I think it was a corolla. When you lifted the car would not decelerate. It just kept going. Once you braked it down it would close the throttle with a snap and you would be fine.

Hated it then, still hate it now. Seems more common on smaller engines....

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I was looking at this engine at the NYIAS. I like the idea of it - a torquey little engine. Seems like it could get great mileage in the right application. I'm sure as many know, I have an unrational fear of timing belts. It also has an oil pump belt. I was able to, without even trying, pop off the oil pump belt. That's scary!


Originally Posted By: E365
I have 175 miles on my 2015 Focus 1.0 hatch that I got yesterday and I have a few initial thoughts.


The engine is very smooth and quiet. It's an interesting car to drive with a manual transmission because the engine has such low overall friction. #1, engine braking is almost non-existent. You need to drop about 3 gears to feel the engine braking. #2, shift timing takes some getting used to because it takes the engine RPMs a long time to drop to match the next higher gear. One would assume it's from a heavy flywheel but I read somewhere a Ford engineer said it's mostly due to the low engine friction.

Initial acceleration from a dead stop is pretty slow because of the very short first gear and how long it takes for the RPMs to drop the 1500 RPM or so to match 2nd gear. Once into 2nd it pulls just fine. Max torque at 1,400 RPM is really noticeable.

As for merging.... I have a long, downhill onramp near me an I have to come off the throttle to keep it under 70 MPH. And that's keeping it under 4000 RPM and a lighter throttle for break in. Pushing it, I'm sure I could hit 100 MPH. Stopped at a meter or a short uphill will probably be a different story. The car tops out over 130 MPH, so it's not exactly underpower.

The cluster screen gives upshot guidance. It tells you when you should up shift for efficiency as well as what gear is suggested. It's interesting that a steady, level cruise above about 37 MPH asks for 6th gear!

I have a Fuelly account set up for it.

Overall I like the car a lot. The updated 2015 interior is nice, IMO. Handling is very good and the ride is slightly on the firm side, which I like.




I'm genuinely interested in this powertrain combo for many reasons. I HATE the MTX-75 transmission that is in current NA focuses; 1st gear is too tall (it should be 2nd gear) and 5th gear is too short. Plus, I like the little I3 ecoboost for it's low end torque and fuel economy.

What are you getting for fuel economy out of it? Can you link the fuelly account?

It seems like 1st gear is pretty short - I like that. Are you able to take off in 1st gear without riding the clutch or giving it a lot of gas?

Other than having to shift a lot, it's not underpowered?


Originally Posted By: supton
Lots of DBW engines are slow to unwind/unrev. Slamming the throttle blade shut leads to higher emissions. I find I have to let off the throttle, then I can go for clutch--cannot do both at the same time.


It's hard to time, that's for sure. My Focus does not slow down. So I just have to drive without giving it gas when I shift. To drive a cable throttle vehicle, you have to give a slight bit of gas when engaging the clutch after shifting ... not the case on these DBW things.



Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: supton

The first car that I drove with this quirk was a late 80's Escort.


Gosh, I remember this clear back in the 80's with one of my parent's cars. I think it was a corolla. When you lifted the car would not decelerate. It just kept going. Once you braked it down it would close the throttle with a snap and you would be fine.

Hated it then, still hate it now. Seems more common on smaller engines....


My Focus is the WORST I have driven for this. It WILL NOT slow down in gear. If I am going 65 and shove it in 2nd gear ... it will keep going 65.

When it is cold and the car is moving, it HAS to run at 2500RPM. Period. It's real fun trying to take off on a cold morning when the engine races to 2500RPM as soon as I push the clutch in. I have been told by the dealer this is a mechanism to heat the converters up quickily. Once it's been running for a few minutes, it stops this but still hangs the revs.

Of course, when the AC is on, they change the throttle mapping and it acts normally. Which always ends up in me driving like I just learned to drive manual because I have to operate the throttle differently.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatc...ec_first_drive/


Article is useless without EPA MPG rating.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: Miller88



When it is cold and the car is moving, it HAS to run at 2500RPM. Period. It's real fun trying to take off on a cold morning when the engine races to 2500RPM as soon as I push the clutch in. I have been told by the dealer this is a mechanism to heat the converters up quickily. Once it's been running for a few minutes, it stops this but still hangs the revs.

Of course, when the AC is on, they change the throttle mapping and it acts normally. Which always ends up in me driving like I just learned to drive manual because I have to operate the throttle differently.



a big +1 on that
my 2011 and 2015 forester are/were big offenders.

Drive it without a/c and revs fall really slow.. so you get used to driving to compensate for that...

Then you put on the A/C and the revs drop 3-4x faster and you jerk along like a noob.. Couple that with the "subaru bounce" low speed throttle effects and you can embarass yourself if you have passengers.. ugh.

Been driving manual for over 15 years and this car can still make me look like a noob because its not consistent.

Taking some 90+ year old relatives to a mother's day cookout yesterday with the a/c on for the first time this year.. after working 20 hours(out of 26) was a joy.. luckily no one got whiplash.

 

[badtlc]

I hope you guys realize why the RPMs drop so much faster with the AC on, especially on smaller displacement engines.

 

[E365]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: E365
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No offense, OP, but the "lack of friction" you describe is throttle programming, NOT superior engine design. Your car, like many these days, holds the throttle open a bit whenever you are underway, even if the pedal is lifted.

But it sounds like a fantastic candidate for an aftermarket programmer. Most cars respond well to them and become much more fun to drive. Some even increase their fuel economy...


If you're talking to me... I trust the Ford engineers and the SAE over those who elude to me being an idiot.

http://articles.sae.org/10714/

Why wouldn't a 1 liter engine have less friction losses than a much bigger engine with more cylinders?


Ahem, the word you were looking for wasn't "elude". Perhaps it was "allude"?

But regardless of how your feelings got hurt, no one was arguing your assertion. Simply pointing out that your foot no longer controls that throttle, the computer does! And what you describe is a common issue on many modern cars. You did what anyone can do, missed the real reason entirely and got caught up in the hype.

Grow some skin, man...


My feelings aren't hurt - I really don't care. Simply pointing out how my observations and those of SAE engineers are exactly the same. My MINI Cooper with an electronic throttle certainly didn't do this to this extent. Not even close.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
I hope you guys realize why the RPMs drop so much faster with the AC on, especially on smaller displacement engines.


It is programmed to do so. Mine has better throttle response when pushing it, too, with the AC on.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: E365
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: E365
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No offense, OP, but the "lack of friction" you describe is throttle programming, NOT superior engine design. Your car, like many these days, holds the throttle open a bit whenever you are underway, even if the pedal is lifted.

But it sounds like a fantastic candidate for an aftermarket programmer. Most cars respond well to them and become much more fun to drive. Some even increase their fuel economy...


If you're talking to me... I trust the Ford engineers and the SAE over those who elude to me being an idiot.

http://articles.sae.org/10714/

Why wouldn't a 1 liter engine have less friction losses than a much bigger engine with more cylinders?


Ahem, the word you were looking for wasn't "elude". Perhaps it was "allude"?

But regardless of how your feelings got hurt, no one was arguing your assertion. Simply pointing out that your foot no longer controls that throttle, the computer does! And what you describe is a common issue on many modern cars. You did what anyone can do, missed the real reason entirely and got caught up in the hype.

Grow some skin, man...


My feelings aren't hurt. I don't care what anyone thinks about me. This is how this car feels to drive and that was my point. My 1.6 MINI Cooper also had an electronic throttle and this effect still isn't NEARLY as pronounced as it is in this engine. Not even close. How is that possible?

Ford can tune their DBW as badly as they want I suppose... Even my Ford with a cable throttle still uses some tricks to rev hang a little at normal rpms. At higher rpms and throttle openings it seems to smarten up and the revs drop as soon as I chop the throttle.
Also the 1.0 probably does have a larger flywheel in relation to its internal friction than most engines, so its not going to spin down to fast. I feel your pain as my Tracker has a low 1st and what seems to be a heavy flywheel, plus a semi weak synchro for 2nd, so I usually just short shift 1st and use a bit more throttle in 2nd. Your motor has good torque at low rpm so it doesn't hurt to use it.
I guess you could try double clutching too, I find its not worth the bother, but maybe in your car it would be?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

Ford can tune their DBW as badly as they want I suppose... Even my Ford with a cable throttle still uses some tricks to rev hang a little at normal rpms. At higher rpms and throttle openings it seems to smarten up and the revs drop as soon as I chop the throttle.
Also the 1.0 probably does have a larger flywheel in relation to its internal friction than most engines, so its not going to spin down to fast. I feel your pain as my Tracker has a low 1st and what seems to be a heavy flywheel, plus a semi weak synchro for 2nd, so I usually just short shift 1st and use a bit more throttle in 2nd. Your motor has good torque at low rpm so it doesn't hurt to use it.
I guess you could try double clutching too, I find its not worth the bother, but maybe in your car it would be?


They program the IAC to be open a lot. My father's 2001 F350 with cable throttle is the same way. That truck has always idled fast and has rev-hang.

When the exhaust fell off ... that thing would wake the dead in the cemetery across the street. Just like my old '01 Taurus, it WILL rev up to 2500 RPM when you start it cold. My Taurus would would shift into 2nd gear and go like 15 mph if started cold and put into gear without holding the brake.

All this to get the cat to heat up quicker ...

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: badtlc
I hope you guys realize why the RPMs drop so much faster with the AC on, especially on smaller displacement engines.


It is programmed to do so. Mine has better throttle response when pushing it, too, with the AC on.


No, it isn't programming at all. It is the increased drag on the motor from the compressor being engaged. Without the extra mass of a larger engine, this drag is much more pronounced. When coasting in gear, the fuel pump is shut off so programming has no effect. The wheels are the ones doing the work to power the compressor during this period. More work from the wheels means faster slow downs.

The programming matters when the fuel pump is running as the programming increases idle fuel rates to maintain steady RPMs when the compressor engages.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I'll throw the scanner on to see. I can't imagine the compressor is *that* bad - otherwise the car wouldn't be able to get out of its own way and fuel economy would really suffer. Some of it is drag, but the instant throttle response - when pressing - is not a result of increased drag.