Expedition Shopping

[Ifixyawata]

So we've made the determination that my wife's Mountaineer is at the end of it's useful life. Used car shopping is a far cry from what it was when we bought the Mountaineer in 2015 for $4500. Although we only have three kids, the Mountaineer has begun to feel small. So we are leaning heavily towards ten-ish year old Expeditions or Navigators. Leather is a requirement and no preference on long or short body. 4wd is a requirement and I think that's the only must haves.

Talking to my brother in law he said to avoid first gen Ecoboost so, according to my research that rules out 2015 and 2016 model years. Basically what I'm looking at is 2013, 2014 or 2017s. On one hand the 5.4 is long term reliable and generally proven I'm thinking as long as spark plugs are dealt with. I'm apprehensive more so about the Ecoboost as it's a used forced induction motor and the electric power steering is foreign to me.

Anyone have any words of wisdom regarding this? This is the first car we've bought in a long time and easily will be our largest purchase. I particularly don't want to be making 36 or 48 months of payments (thinking of putting 10k down) on a car that will barely last longer than that. I've also had a preference while looking at 115k or less miles. Once upon a time I couldn't imagine paying 20-25k for a car with 100k miles.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Consider the Buick Regal TourX. It's AWD

Why is AWD/4WD a requirement?

Ford's own Transit Connect is the best Ford for your needs. The smallest full-size Transit might work, too, and I think AWD is available on it, too.

There's also the AWD Sienna. Chrysler used to offer AWD on their minivans, but they stopped a few years ago. Since you're buying used and not new, that will not be a problem.

Minivans are smaller on the outside but have much more room on the inside

 

[Ifixyawata]

I've gone down the minivan road with my wife many times and she will absolutely not, lol. I don't blame her, I think she feels safer in something more like a truck.

AWD/4WD for the Ohio winters but I don't want any kind of full-time system that's very sensitive to tire circumference differences.

I personally like the Ford Flex but she does not alas.

 

[meep]

Pay close attention to the third row. At some point the floor bumped up essentially eating up 2” of extendable leg space. I was looking at a well used 2wd for $4.5k 10 years ago and we found the third row to effectively be little better than the 3rd row in an mdx. My ex’s boyfriend had one and both of my kids said, “please, dad, no.“ so there was that. we dropped the notion on the spot.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

I've gone down the minivan road with my wife many times and she will absolutely not, lol. I don't blame her, I think she feels safer in something more like a truck.

AWD/4WD for the Ohio winters but I don't want any kind of full-time system that's very sensitive to tire circumference differences.

I personally like the Ford Flex but she does not alas.

I totally forgot about the Flex

One more question: do you need the third seat?

 

[BornSlippy]

You don't want a 5.4L. Search up 5.4L and cam phasers.

 

[Ifixyawata]

Pay close attention to the third row. At some point the floor bumped up essentially eating up 2” of extendable leg space. I was looking at a well used 2wd for $4.5k 10 years ago and we found the third row to effectively be little better than the 3rd row in an mdx. My ex’s boyfriend had one and both of my kids said, “please, dad, no.“ so there was that. we dropped the notion on the spot.

I totally forgot about the Flex

One more question: do you need the third seat?

To answer both of these we do use the third row occasionally and it's a must have.

I'd think it was way better either way than the Mountaineer but will still thoroughly check it out and keep it in mind.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I have a good friend that owns a 2012 Expedition w/ the 3V 5.4L. Bought it around 130K miles. It's nearing 250K now and his wife drives it 70+ miles per day. None of the usual phaser issues, or spark plug problems-- I think the cam phaser issue was mostly solved by 2010 or so. The big problems I know he's had was a bad brake control module (service advancetrac kept coming up on the display); that was a $100 Ebay used part that I helped him install and program. Recently he had some torque converter / transmission shudder that was fixed with a fluid change and some Lubegard shudder-fix additive. When I had it on my lift recently, it has plenty of oil leaks (think it's coming from the oil filter adapter) and seeping, but nothing major.

Other than that he's had the usual maintenance stuff. He speaks very highly of the vehicle.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

To answer both of these we do use the third row occasionally and it's a must have.

I'd think it was way better either way than the Mountaineer but will still thoroughly check it out and keep it in mind.

then a minivan is the only option, sorry

 

[Ifixyawata]

I have a good friend that owns a 2012 Expedition w/ the 3V 5.4L. Bought it around 130K miles. It's nearing 250K now and his wife drives it 70+ miles per day. None of the usual phaser issues, or spark plug problems-- I think the cam phaser issue was mostly solved by 2010 or so. The big problems I know he's had was a bad brake control module (service advancetrac kept coming up on the display); that was a $100 Ebay used part that I helped him install and program. Recently he had some torque converter / transmission shudder that was fixed with a fluid change and some Lubegard shudder-fix additive. When I had it on my lift recently, it has plenty of oil leaks (think it's coming from the oil filter adapter) and seeping, but nothing major.

Other than that he's had the usual maintenance stuff. He speaks very highly of the vehicle.

I had thought that about the cam phasers being fixed by then too. I know early 3Vs had a bad reputation for those but I think '12 - '14 should be considered mature and probably some of the last 5.4. In-laws had a '08 King Ranch F-150 that sounded like a diesel. The Mountaineer had an oil leak start at the oil filter adapter as well, quickly outshone by the power steering fluid leak. Maybe oil filter adapter is a common 4.6/5.4 leak.

 

[Ifixyawata]

So I still feel good about the later 5.4s but can anyone confirm that the 2017+ are, in fact the less plagued variants of Ecoboost?

 

[meep]

I think both ecoboosts are well sorted by 2017. I have the 2.7 in a 2018 and the engine itself is excellent. Cheap cooling fittings in an ugly place is less fun. The 2.7 is a monster and we pulled 4500 lbs with it regularly when we camped, and it never hurt for power. I’ve not heard of any real issues with the 3.5 either, with a couple of considerations:

1. it is still the general belief that these engines can and will eat chain guides early. Most I know in the RV crowd run a slightly thicker oil and change it more frequently.
2. They can generate more HP than they can effectively cool, such as towing in the mountains
3. The engines themselves are durable
4. A modded ECU or tuning can be disastrous
5. the 10 speed trans is a mixed bag. Long test drives are advised, especially once it’s warmed up, to look for clunking during deceleration and clumsy behavior as it upshifts from 3rd (in to 4th or 5th). I’ve had trouble with mine but in both cases was able to correct it; dealer was no help. Clunking during rapid braking seems normal; it bothers some.
6. Make sure *all* hvac controls work and all recirc and blend door motors respond.
7. Some complain of leaking oil pans, which are often hidden above the dust shield. not a deal breaker, but look.

I personally find the 2.7 more fun to drive, but idk if it’s even offered in the expi.

 

[joegreen]

have you considered a vehicle other than a ford. Both of those engines are good but have potential high cost complex issues. What about gm such as a Tahoe or yukon. Although watch out for cylinder deactivation issues with lifters. I would take lifter issues over cam phaser issues any day.

 

[clinebarger]

have you considered a vehicle other than a ford. Both of those engines are good but have potential high cost complex issues. What about gm such as a Tahoe or yukon. Although watch out for cylinder deactivation issues with lifters. I would take lifter issues over cam phaser issues any day.

3V 5.4L Phasers can be changed without removing the timing cover/timing chains.

I'm not the biggest fan of the 3V 5.4L, But I see fewer issues on post 2009 versions....Whatever that's worth.

 

[clinebarger]

Maybe oil filter adapter is a common 4.6/5.4 leak.

Common leak point on all Ford Modular engines.

 

[Ifixyawata]

have you considered a vehicle other than a ford. Both of those engines are good but have potential high cost complex issues. What about gm such as a Tahoe or yukon. Although watch out for cylinder deactivation issues with lifters. I would take lifter issues over cam phaser issues any day.

I've been interested in 4runners for a while but they're priced even higher than Expeditions etc and don't have 3rd row from what I've seen. I'm not too big a fan of GM products and Ford's keyless entry keypad has saved me from a locksmith call more than once. Might seem like a dumb reason but I've pretty much only looked at Fords.

 

[Ifixyawata]

I think both ecoboosts are well sorted by 2017. I have the 2.7 in a 2018 and the engine itself is excellent. Cheap cooling fittings in an ugly place is less fun. The 2.7 is a monster and we pulled 4500 lbs with it regularly when we camped, and it never hurt for power. I’ve not heard of any real issues with the 3.5 either, with a couple of considerations:

1. it is still the general belief that these engines can and will eat chain guides early. Most I know in the RV crowd run a slightly thicker oil and change it more frequently.
2. They can generate more HP than they can effectively cool, such as towing in the mountains
3. The engines themselves are durable
4. A modded ECU or tuning can be disastrous
5. the 10 speed trans is a mixed bag. Long test drives are advised, especially once it’s warmed up, to look for clunking during deceleration and clumsy behavior as it upshifts from 3rd (in to 4th or 5th). I’ve had trouble with mine but in both cases was able to correct it; dealer was no help. Clunking during rapid braking seems normal; it bothers some.
6. Make sure *all* hvac controls work and all recirc and blend door motors respond.
7. Some complain of leaking oil pans, which are often hidden above the dust shield. not a deal breaker, but look.

I personally find the 2.7 more fun to drive, but idk if it’s even offered in the expi.

I think it's only 3.5 for the Expedition.

Most of the 2017s I've looked at are listed as 6 speeds. In-laws current truck is a '19 F-150 EB w/ 10-speed and it feels odd and unsure of what gear it wants to be in.

 

[dogememe]

A close friend has a 5.4 Expedition. I think it's an 07 with about 150K miles on it? He bought it used a couple years ago, and primarily uses it for long road trips, usually towing or hauling. He is now replacing the transmission. The whole time he owned it, it had a tiny bit of torque converter shudder, which he unfortunately didn't notice on the test drive. He's just ignored that, and despite it getting worse over time, he most recently drove it loaded full of heavy scuba equipment all the way from CA to FL and back. Now he finally wanted to get it looked at, and when the trans pan was removed a ton of metal was present.

The 5.4 has been perfect. He does 7-10K OCIs with various brands of full synthetic. We don't know what the previous owner did. Despite the long-ish OCIs, and lots of towing and hauling, no issues with the engine.

When he got the quote to replace the trans we looked long and hard for what would be a better vehicle. But the newer ones are so expensive, and I don't think a used EcoBoost is going to be any more reliable or efficient when towing a trailer long term, so it's worth fixing the old one. We do have to do the brakes again, we did them when he first bought it, and now it's time to do them again. Also have to do some front-end work. But besides the transmission, nothing else has gone wrong with this vehicle. AC and all interior accessories, and it's the fancy Limited trim with all the bells and whistles, still work fine. It's a super nice handling, comfortable truck. And the reason he chose it over the Suburban was the better cargo capacity due to being IRS, not solid rear axle. Anyway, he already decided that even if the engine does go out, he'll have it replaced rather than replacing the whole vehicle, as it will still financially make more sense. Of course, cars don't rust here, so it still looks brand new on the outside and underneath despite being like 15 years old.

 

[Ifixyawata]

I checked again and it turns out that '15, '16 and '17 are all first-generation Ecoboosts, technically. While they are still at least six years past the first F-150's it doesn't give me a great feeling about Ecoboost 3.5's as an option. How much reliable life exists in a 100k+ (likely) forced induction V6? Could I really hope to get another 100+ out of it without major repairs to timing chains, etc?

And, from what I'm seeing the Second-Gen/10-speed combo in the '18 and newer are completely out of my price range. So it appears that I should really only be looking at 2014 and older Expeditions/Navigators.

 

[Ifixyawata]

This one looks pretty clean and pretty much exactly what I'm looking for, but it's 300 miles away.

2014 King Ranch