Does a tiny rip matter?

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: TomHunter

Explain how a significant portion of a lube flow can go through 1% or less of a media surface. I will accept math, citations to literature, just about anything other than your personal suppositions and uninformed impressions.


Fluid will take the least path of resistance. A gaping hole has much less resistance to flow compared to the media. Even if the tear is 1~2% of the total area, there will be more that 1~2% of the oil flow diverted through those holes. Bottom line is there should be no unfiltered oil getting past the media unless the bypass valve has to open for some reason.

Then explain how this could occur over thousands of miles with essentially no erosion of the hole in a media with the consistency of a wet paper towel. {/quote]

How do you know loose fibers aren't getting sloughed off the torn edges of the media by the oil flowing through the torn open holes? I highly doubt every loose fiber stays intact for 5,000+ miles of oil washing over the torn edges.

 

[TomHunter]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Fluid will take the least path of resistance.

Please do not overrun this thread with idle speculations.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: TomHunter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I don't use products that fail.

This thread deals with my answer to the question "Does a tiny rip matter that much?".

There are several threads in which what you personally use might be more topical, all of which you appear to be already involved in.


Hi WD ... your vacation was too short. It was nice and peaceful while you were gone. I can already tell from your responses and writing style that you've re-registered under a new name.

You should realize that everyone is going to have their own feelings on this subject, and that you will never sway anyone to accept that tears in oil filter media is "no big deal" and just to accept it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Heads up everyone.

TomHunter = WD

 

[TomHunter]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Go read the wikipedia article about the scientific method.

This really is not the discussion for whatever is you're talking about. If you have some actual facts to share, please do.

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: TomHunter

Of course Purolator ought to look into this and fix whatever is going on, but I would not get hysterical.


Smells like WD has returned.

Bottom line - oil filters should never develop tears in the media during use. It is not a design feature ... it is a failure.

I don't use products that fail.


Your correct oil filters shouldnt tear.. but if someone uses the oil filter beyond its use say 12K miles on a regular Purolator... then its possible to have a tear..

correct?

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: TomHunter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Fluid will take the least path of resistance.

Please do not overrun this thread with idle speculations.


That's not speculation

And yes, we're being trolled

 

[HTSS_TR]

There are several name brand spin-on oil filters in the price range $5-7: Fram TG, Purolator P1, Wix, NAPA Gold ...

There are no evidences of any hole with Fram TG, Wix, NAPA Gold. There are some evidences of small hole(s) with Purolator P1 and Classic.

For my money, I rather be safe than sorry.

This is not exactly the same but close: You make a simple comparison of 2 air filters by looking through each one when place them to the light source. You see light through brand X and no light through brand Y. Which one do you buy if they are similar in price and both fit your air box correctly ?

Or if you see a very small tear about 1/4 sq-in in a corner of an air filter, do you buy that filter or you open another box to check and buy one without any tear ?

Summary, there is no reason to buy a defective product if you can buy similar one without any defective for the same price.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: TomHunter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Fluid will take the least path of resistance.

Please do not overrun this thread with idle speculations.


WD, that's the most basic concept that any fluids noob will know. Go do a séance and bring Bernoulli back, and he can fill you in.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: TomHunter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Fluid will take the least path of resistance.

Please do not overrun this thread with idle speculations.


That's not speculation

And yes, we're being trolled

Obviously, TomHunter is Wilhelm_D re-registered under a different username because he was smoked a few day ago.

He's back trying to stir everyone back up again, and is on a big fishing expedition, right where he left off as WD.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: TomHunter

The question was "Does a tiny rip matter that much?" and the answer is "No". The rest of the discussion is fascinating to those who think it is fascinating, but I am not talking to that and them.


I'm sure everyone here is glad you cleared that up and decided the answer to the question for them WD. Why did you even post this thread beside to bait and fish again?

 

[bullwinkle]

When TomHunter (or whoever he is) offers to pay for particle count UOAs, and they prove that a torn Puro Classic doesn't allow any more contaminants through than an untorn comparable filter, I'll again be buying Purolator for myself, my family member's vehicles, and customers. Until then, I'm not!

 

[rhhsiao]

I have a question. If we have an oil filter that is rated at 99% efficiency that has a small tear and we compare that to another filter that is say 75% efficient assuming same beta and no tears, how much better or worse is the filtration all else being equal?

I ask because if indeed the difference is minute, then the impact on increased wear would also be minute. Keep in mind, I am not advocating that it is ok that oil filters have tears whether you consider them failures or not. I am simply performing a thought experiment.

 

[dlundblad]

I think a rip matters.

A hole is in something that shouldn't have a hole. And as said above, effenciency is brought down because fluid will take the path of least resistance.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Without all kinds of controlled lab tests and data, it's anyone's speculation. Anyone knows unfiltered oil will be going through these holes, and its entirely possible some of the torn fibers could go down into the oiling system due to the bypassing oil washing over the torn edges of the media.

I'd rather use filters without big holes in them, then there's no question that the filter is doing what it was designed to do at the filtering level it was designed to.

If I thought big holes were OK, I'd put some more in to ensure the delta-p across the filter is lower, or I'd somehow modify the bypass valve to be open all the time. That's essentially the same as having 4 big tears in the media.

People trying to justify using filters with media tears are just trying to bait and stir up everyone who has some common sense about using failed oil filters.

 

[bullwinkle]

If you're running a Purolator Classic (as I have) in an engine with piston cooling nozzles-even tiny bits of media could clog one. Bye-bye $6-8,000 Cummins motor!

 

[surfstar]

Remember the sized particles that will do damage to an engine, are LARGER ones. The kind that could pass through a tear/rip. Any failure of the media is failure of the filter.

Its likely you could run a new, post-breakin, engine without a filter for many thousands of miles without much worry as tolerances and manufacturing have gotten tight and clean. But I don't drive that vehicle, so when I put a filter on, I want it to actually filter.

+1 for another reason to have more cartridge filters.

 

[MrQuackers]

Joined yesterday? OK...too late for damage control.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: TomHunter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Fluid will take the least path of resistance.

Please do not overrun this thread with idle speculations.







Wow, please don't overrun this thread with math, equations and data!

 

[Texan4Life]

Originally Posted By: TomHunter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Fluid will take the least path of resistance.

Please do not overrun this thread with idle speculations.


As the first poster who tried to respectfully disagree using the same logic as Zee, I take offense to your response.

Its basic physics and fluid dynamics, and it is you who are the one trolling these forums with inflammatory chatter and speculations.