CA Law Requiring 10,000 mile oil chang in gov

[eljefino]

So what?

So they run something to 150k and 15 oil changes and it has problems, the engine's somehow corroded, and it's the year 2033. The oil company can just point a finger and say "you promised us uber low sulfur gas which you reneged on" and they'll all run in circles.

I sorta doubt it. Maybe they'll just keep making cars with low tension rings that burn a little so the top-off keeps the additives working.

 

[edwardh1]

would be a good test 4 a year

 

[mongo161]

Well, I guess Valvoline will have to change its blanket statement.....on oils should be changed out every 3K miles. Better stock up on VWB and other conventionals before they're pulled from the shelves in CA and NY.

 

[spasm3]

I still think it would be great if the oil companies, stated, we don't ship to calif., Not for use in calif. Or We don't make an oil for your specs, try company xxx, and they all say the same.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman


I wonder how well this is going to work out when the automakers refuse to honor warranties for engine failures. The clause "when used in accordance with the automobile manufacturer's recommendations" means the oil should be changed when the OLM indicates, not when the State of California says so. I suppose this means California fleet managers are going to have to buy expensive oils that can go 10k miles, but they'll have to do oil changes when the car says to. Are there any OLM's out there that go over 10k miles?


Disagreeing with your logic. Used in accordance means you don't race or go off road with cars, thats all. Fleet managers can, and have, done whatever they want. Now the warranty oil failure problems can be shifted to the oil companies. Some OLMs already go over 10,000 miles routinely (Toyota, BMW, others). I see this all this as a warranty shift mostly. I.E, blaming Mobil Super for a bearing failures on an older gov fleet vehicle or citizen's car.

 

[JohnnyMerrill]

Originally Posted By: mongo161
Better stock up on VWB and other conventionals before they're pulled from the shelves in CA and NY.


Why would you do that? Usually these laws come with provisions for "classic car oils" of cars 1975 and older, which means you can even grab a dino 20W50 if that floats you road boat.

10W40 and 10W30 semi-synth oils and better are all good for 10k anyways, modern synthetics from M1, Pennzoil, Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple and the like for twice that.

 

[hatt]

Oil companies will be loving this. A law stating only their premium products can be sold. $$$

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: tig1
All Cali has to do is change their fleet to M1 oils and 10K will be a snap. That has been my experience for the last 37 years.
Yep, Mobil 1 oils are guaranteed for 10K.
For those who want variety, both SOPUS and Castrol have 10K oils. I do not see this as a problem as it only requires the oil manufacturers to improve their oils (some will not have to do anything to meet the requirement). The larger issue to have everyone actually use the oil for 10K...

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: totegoat
I don't see a problem.

"(c) It is the intent of the Legislature to ensure that all automotive oil marketed to consumers in this state meets minimum quality standards."


Well, yeah. The minimum quality standards for motor oil the USA are set by the API, not the California legislature. When did they become experts?


When Jan 2018 happens, when this might take effect, we'll be in what, I think SP-GF6, so maybe they will already be good enough to go 10,000 miles, any duty cycle. Only a rare engine failure for the oil companies to take care of.


The API has never felt the need to create standards for OCI, so why would they start now? Saying 10k mile OCI's on any duty cycle is much too broad a standard. I don't think you'd get very far with Mobil if you called them up and asked for an oil that lasts 10k miles, no matter what you do with it. The API wouldn't create any standard saying so. If California wants the automakers and oil companies to guarantee 10k mile OCI's, they should create their own standard duty cycle test so that oils and engines can be proven to meet the standard.

This is just another "feel-good" law meant to show how much the legislator cares with no thought given to conditions in the real world. Do they know that state fleet managers aren't already going longer than 10k miles? It is the job of fleet managers the world over to select the most economical combination of oil quality and OCI. Or once the oil companies are faced with 10k mile OCI's, maybe they'll start formulating "special California blends" that cost 3x as much, so the tax payers get hosed again. How many people in California would find it newsworthy that they should change their oil at all?

 

[JohnnyMerrill]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Oil companies will be loving this. A law stating only their premium products can be sold. $$$


Unless the premium product costs more than 3x as much and people actually use it for 10k instead of 3k, not so much.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: tig1
All Cali has to do is change their fleet to M1 oils and 10K will be a snap. That has been my experience for the last 37 years.
Yep, Mobil 1 oils are guaranteed for 10K.
For those who want variety, both SOPUS and Castrol have 10K oils. I do not see this as a problem as it only requires the oil manufacturers to improve their oils (some will not have to do anything to meet the requirement). The larger issue to have everyone actually use the oil for 10K...


Most citizens (non gov fleet) will ignore the law. Law doesn't force anyone to go >10,000 miles, it just says, if you do, then the oil maker is to blame for any engine problems due to oil failure, but isn't that pretty rare, even with 10,000 mile changes on SN oil right now?

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: A_Harman


I wonder how well this is going to work out when the automakers refuse to honor warranties for engine failures. The clause "when used in accordance with the automobile manufacturer's recommendations" means the oil should be changed when the OLM indicates, not when the State of California says so. I suppose this means California fleet managers are going to have to buy expensive oils that can go 10k miles, but they'll have to do oil changes when the car says to. Are there any OLM's out there that go over 10k miles?


Disagreeing with your logic. Used in accordance means you don't race or go off road with cars, thats all.


No it doesn't. It means you change the oil when the OLM tells you. The OEM programmed the OLM, and it is their recommendation on when to change the oil, based on the duty cycle the car has been subjected to. When I take my Camaro to the race track, the OLM tells me to change the oil sooner. When I do mostly long highway cruises, the OLM allows longer OCI's. Short trips during cold winter weather also lead to short OCI's. It's way more sophisticated than an open-ended edict that you shall change the oil only when the state says you can.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: JohnnyMerrill
Originally Posted By: hatt
Oil companies will be loving this. A law stating only their premium products can be sold. $$$


Unless the premium product costs more than 3x as much and people actually use it for 10k instead of 3k, not so much.
OCIs aren't going to change much. You bringing up the much outdated 3K OCI is proof of that. Many people are already going to/towards 10k with dino and semisyn. They'll be forced to more expensive products most likely.

 

[totegoat]

Another tidbit:

"Acknowledging that rerefined oil products are equal in quality to conventional lubricants, the State of California’s fleet of over 30,000 vehicles has been using rerefined oil since 1994. The State contract provides for the purchase of rerefined oil in various grades, which is also available to local governments. Many private fleets also have realized the benefits of rerefined oil and have switched as well."

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Oil companies will be loving this. A law stating only their premium products can be sold. $$$


+1 for the above comment!

 

[JohnnyMerrill]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Most citizens (non gov fleet) will ignore the law. Law doesn't force anyone to go >10,000 miles, it just says, if you do, then the oil maker is to blame for any engine problems due to oil failure, but isn't that pretty rare, even with 10,000 mile changes on SN oil right now?


The law is the will of the people in California. They want an oil that lasts 10k miles or longer, because they're all environment-caring, tree-hugging hippies who're driving on 0W8 in a Prius to increase the MPG by 0.0001MPG (which, coincidentally, is also good for >10k).

Originally Posted By: hatt
OCIs aren't going to change much. You bringing up the much outdated 3K OCI is proof of that. Many people are already going to/towards 10k with dino and semisyn. They'll be forced to more expensive products most likely.


If BIGOT is any indication, the average OCI is 5-7k which is mid-80ies compared to Asia and Europe.

To see the effect of "longer than stated in the manual from 1998" OCIs with modern oils, someone would have to run an engine for 200k miles or so and disassemble it afterward to assess wear. Otherwise all we can do is UOAs.

 

[ccap41]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
I still think it would be great if the oil companies, stated, we don't ship to calif., Not for use in calif. Or We don't make an oil for your specs, try company xxx, and they all say the same.


This would be great! Basically just boycot California because of their ridiculousness.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: A_Harman


I wonder how well this is going to work out when the automakers refuse to honor warranties for engine failures. The clause "when used in accordance with the automobile manufacturer's recommendations" means the oil should be changed when the OLM indicates, not when the State of California says so. I suppose this means California fleet managers are going to have to buy expensive oils that can go 10k miles, but they'll have to do oil changes when the car says to. Are there any OLM's out there that go over 10k miles?


Disagreeing with your logic. Used in accordance means you don't race or go off road with cars, thats all.


No it doesn't. It means you change the oil when the OLM tells you. The OEM programmed the OLM, and it is their recommendation on when to change the oil, based on the duty cycle the car has been subjected to. When I take my Camaro to the race track, the OLM tells me to change the oil sooner. When I do mostly long highway cruises, the OLM allows longer OCI's. Short trips during cold winter weather also lead to short OCI's. It's way more sophisticated than an open-ended edict that you shall change the oil only when the state says you can.


A_Harman, if you're right, then this law does absolutely nothing. It says nothing. If OLMs or owner's manual override the 10,000 mile minimum, then this law might as well not be there. A correct interpretation of the law is found in the actual text of the law:

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

"This bill, on and after January 1, 2018, would require all automotive oil sold in this state to be certified by the oil manufacturer to achieve a minimum useful life of 10,000 miles when used in accordance with the automobile manufacturer’s recommendations"

 

[PandaBear]

Quote:
This bill, on and after January 1, 2018, would require all automotive oil sold in this state to be certified by the oil manufacturer to achieve a minimum useful life of 10,000 miles when used in accordance with the automobile manufacturer’s recommendations, and to meet current automotive industry standards.


That means for new car engine that is designed to do 10k OCI. Which means those designed for extended OCI already. I think that's pretty easy to do even with today's oil.

Now of course you can't expect 10K OCI on an aircooled VW.

Who is the one that has reading comprehension problem that says it is for ALL engine?

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Quote:
This bill, on and after January 1, 2018, would require all automotive oil sold in this state to be certified by the oil manufacturer to achieve a minimum useful life of 10,000 miles when used in accordance with the automobile manufacturer’s recommendations, and to meet current automotive industry standards.


That means for new car engine that is designed to do 10k OCI. Which means those designed for extended OCI already. I think that's pretty easy to do even with today's oil.

Now of course you can't expect 10K OCI on an aircooled VW.

Who is the one that has reading comprehension problem that says it is for ALL engine?


So if you and A_Harman are correct, then this scenario plays out:
Citizen A has a 2015 Ford which says change the SN oil at 5,000 miles. Its exempt from the CA law's 10,000 mile minimum at all times.
Citizen B has a 2015 Toyota whose OLM might allow 10,000 miles, so this vehicle might be in compliance with the 10,000 minimum, but only around half the time.
What does the law do then? If OLMs and owner's manuals simply override it every time.

About reading comprehension, what text in the law exempts VW engines or any other engines? Reading comprehension requires text, right? LMAO